BRUSSELS, May 3, 2006 (AFP) -
The European Union suspended talks Wednesday on forging closer ties with Serbia, punishing Belgrade for failing to cooperate fully with UN prosecutors hunting Ratko Mladic and other war crimes fugitives.
Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn postponed the talks on a stabilisation and association agreement -- seen as a first step to joining the EU -- mainly because Mladic, the former Bosnian Serb army chief wanted for genocide, was still at large.
Chief UN war crimes prosecutor Carla Del Ponte lashed Belgrade and accused Serbian Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica of delivering an "unacceptable" and "double-faced" call Wednesday for Mladic to give himself up.
She said she was "particularly disappointed" by the failure to catch Mladic despite Serbian assurances he would be in custody in the International Criminal Tribunal for former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in The Hague by April 30.
The commission's announcement sparked the resignation of Serbia's deputy prime minister, Miroljub Labus, who was a key negotiator with the EU.
"This (failure) has betrayed one of the most important interests of the country and the people of Serbia," he said. "As the deputy prime minister and chief of the negotiating team, I don't want to take part in this government."
The next round of the EU's negotiations with Serbia and its federal partner Montenegro had been scheduled for May 11 and Rehn gave no indication when the process so coveted by Kostunica's government might resume.
"It is disappointing that Belgrade has been unable to locate, arrest and transfer Ratko Mladic to The Hague," Rehn told reporters.
"The commission has therefore decided to call off the negotiations on the stabilisation and association agreement. The commission is ready to resume negotiations as soon as Serbia achieves full cooperation," he said.
He said he made the decision after telephone talks with Del Ponte earlier Wednesday. "Her assessment is negative," he said.
Mladic and Bosnian Serb wartime political leader Radovan Karadzic are wanted for genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity and have been at large since 1995.
The genocide charges relate to their roles in Bosnia's brutal 1992-1995 war, notably the Srebrenica massacre of an estimated 8,000 Muslim men and boys.
Serbia denies knowing where Mladic is, but recently admitted he had been under military protection until mid-2002 and received a pension until December.
In Belgrade, Kostunica urged Mladic to give up for the sake of his country.
"It would be best of all for Ratko Mladic to follow the example of all other officers and go to The Hague," he said in a statement.
"It has never happened in our history that the people and the state have paid the price for the mistakes of just one officer," he said.
But Del Ponte sharply criticised Serbian authorities for appealing to Mladic to surrender, a tactic she said was "completely unrealistic and simply wrong".
"The obvious conclusion is that I was misled when I was told at the end of March that the arrest of Mladic would be a matter of days or weeks," she said at a press conference.
The prospect of joining Europe's rich club has been a powerful incentive for reform in the troubled Balkans. Macedonia was made a candidate to join the Union last year based on its rapid progress.
"The stabilisation and association agreement would bring important benefits for citizens, for example in expanding trade and attracting investment," said Rehn.
"Our initial goal of concluding the negotiations by the end of 2006 is still within reach, but only if there is a dramatic improvement in cooperation with the ICTY so that the negotiations can resume without delay," he said.
The EU move heaps pressure on Belgrade as it negotiates the future of the separatist-minded province of Kosovo and as Montenegrins prepare to vote on May 21 whether to break up the federation.
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53 comments:
This is peak of Serb stupidity. Speaking about the organized crime, it is obvious who controlls Serbia today. A number of criminals with their armies decide to starve the whole nation so they can escape justice. The decision to punish Serbia should have come earlier and be harsher. Only a revolution will fix things in Serbia and that will happen soon in my opinion.
I think the whole country is admitting guilt by not turning in Mladic and 100s others to face justice and let the truth come up. The fact that the all nation is being punished I think will inject some wisdom to these poor creatures in the middle of Europe.
How can you punish the whole country? it's not pragmatic, it's counter productive, more they "punish" the country, people become more resilient. US didn't blame whole german nation and it's people for the War World II. And besides the tribunal is kangaroo court.
I was expecting this based on fact that you Serbian you treat the war criminals like heroes.
Another issue that Serbians have failed to achieve their demmands was not participating on last elections even that they knew that during 2006 the talks for final status will start and end but without them as political party on the parliament.
The real tragedy here is how horribly counter-productive the ICTY has been. It was intended to rebuild rule of law, and foster a sense of recognition and reconciliation in Serbia, but instead, the ICTY and its demands for war criminals have played perfectly into the nationalist rhetoric. Rather than engender any sort of acknowledgement in Serbia, the Serbian view of the ICTY as the West's favorite whipping belt. Yet these changes desparately need to take place in Serbia in order for its society to fully break from the past, and reject the nationalist myth that nothing is ever Serbia's fault, but rather that Serbia is the perpetual victim of unfiar international scorn.
At 1:01 AM, NYoutlawyer said...
Murati, please learn English if you want to blog here. No one knows what the fuck you are talking about.
I think you hate albanians, right?
Sir if you want to learn other languages than English pleas learn Mandarin because it will be the language of business.
As it matters for English language I have already passed the TOEFL once with 603 points.
As it matters with hatting Albanians how come that you can say something like that and didn't you noticed that I am Albanian from my previous blogs.
Ako hoces da se sporazumes sa albanicima nemoj vise da nas zove shitpairs jer vi ste takvi a mi se zovemo Shqiptar a ne shiptari ili kako je nas zvao Vojslav Seselj shiftari. Kad biste poceli da hodate po zemjli takodjer da mislite normalno onda ne bih mogli da radite svasta u Balkanu jer skoro se doci vrijeme da Shqiptarët da dodju do Sumadije jer to su bile nase territorije.
And about Great Albania that you Serbians quite often use I think that you Serbians are willing to create it. But do you know its border how would look like to have Great Albania. If the surface of Great Albania is almost 75% of Balkan Peninsula then it is really Great Albania. Starting from Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Serbia, FYRO Macedonia, and a northern part of Greece from Selanik (Thessalonikis) straight line on the map til the Çamëria (Lower than Janina).
So shut up your language because we want only those territories that belong to us not further then that.
By the way my wish has been fulfilled no Serbian parties on the Parliament of Kosova, the talks about Joining Serbia to EU have been halted so what's next on the menu, Kosova, Montengro, Sandzak, Vojvodina with Djerdap (no more electricity for Serbia) and no more bordering with FYRO Macedonia and who nows at the year of 2008 only the Sumadija and Belgrade Pasaluk will remain as the territories of Serbia.
This song has been started by us and will be ended by us.
Another issue is if we were not converted to Islam then now we could be all assimilated to serbians. So I am proud to be Albanian non-fundamentalist Muslim with clear conoscience and without any hassle to talk with other nations but your policy pushes us to those positions to start a war against Serbia.
O Ahmet N Murati,
Ore mëndjeshkretë! A islami na ka mbajtur Shqiptar a?...U i poshtëri i botës!...islami nuk ka fare të bëj me Shqiptarizmin ore idiot.
Përkundrazi, islami na ka kajt nonën si komb dhe ende po na kan' nonën sot.
Un vije nga një familje "muslimane" (bile edhe gjyshin e kemi pasur haxhi) por jam mjaftë i vetëdijshëm, mjaftë i guximshëm dhe & mjaftë i edukuar sa i përket historisë së kombit tonë të lavdishëm që të dijë se çfarë dëmi na kanë bërë turqit & arabët (prej të cilëve ka ardhur kjo fe e praptë me kulturë që nuk ka të bëj fare me Shqiptaët dhe Evropianizmin) duke na e sjellur këtë fe dhe kulturë në mesin tonë.
Gjuha, gjaku dhe armiqtë tanë na kanë mbajtur SHQIPTAR e jo fetë (çfarëdo qofshin).
Ju që e propangandoni tezën se kinse islami na ka shpëtuar nga asimilimi veqse s'lypni vra!
Mjaftë më ore të poshtë4r!
Me Respekt
Shqiptar bir Shqiptari.
More ti anonim prej nga je ti që po filozofon kështu shko shiko pak më shumë e hulumto për këto shkaqe e pastaj e di se çka është e vërtetë
se unë edhe gjyshim por edhe stërgjyshin e kam pasur me fakultet more ti edhe që të dy kanë qenë Hoxhollarë
Edhe nëse je burrë shkruaje emrin e mos u bë burrec pa emër.
Edhe hapi sytë pak më shumë për historinë e shqiptarëve se po më dukesh që ke mbetur mbrapa.
Edhe kjo Europë e kam pasur një mesjetë shumë të praptë që gjatë asaj kohe askush nuk ka guxuar të flas kundër kishës ndërsa në fenë islame nuk ka aso gjëra.
Edhe një gjë se prej Kryqëzatave kush ka pësuar më së shumti?
Hulutmo pak më shumë edhe e sheh historinë e mirëfillt
e mos u bazo vetëm në një burim të vetëm se shyqyr ka dal interneti e ka mjaft burime.
Edhe mos shkruani komente pa emra se shumë po shiteni si filozofa a emrin nuk po guxoni ta shkruani.
Edhe mos i shaj ashtu se edhe di të shaj por njerëzit si ti as që ia vlen të harxhosh energji në të shara.
Cvijus011 All what we want is whole territory of Kosova nothing less and nothing more to any country either Serbia or FYRO Macedonia. And this is not Great Albania But only Kosova.
This comment I have said also to a student from Bosnia in 2003 he said to me "Why you (Albanians) are requesting Great Albania?"
I answered to him:
"If we want Great Albania you should be leaving Balkan peninsula. All what we want is Kosova to be an independent country so it could not be reigned from Serbia any longer."
how absolutely fitting and distressful that this minimalistic advertisement-less kosovo blog would become the virtual battleground for anonymous albanians and serbs to come settle their scores in such a sophomoric and broken-english kind of way.
O Ahmet N Murati,
Do të vijë dita shumë shpejtë, e do të na njohish shumë mirë neve Shqiptarët e pastër. Tani për tani nuk keni nevoj të na njihëni. Ju dhe tipat si ju janë duke e ngadalësuar për të mos thënë ndaluar kombin tonë që të riintegrohët përsëri në/kah perendimi.
Tipat si ju për mendimin tim dhe të shokëve të mij të idealit nuk kanë vend në ardhmërinë e kombit Shqiptar por vetëm në Turqi apo në Arabi (ku i keni rrënjet).
Poashtu, "shkolla" e juaj dhe "dipllomat" tuaja nuk vlejnë as për t'i përdorur në nevojtore (hale- në gjuhën tuaj, që ta kuptoni më mirë)!
Pra, poshtë turkomanët anadollak që tentojnë ta dirigjojnë kombin Shqiptar kah lindja duke ia mohuar historinë e lashtë & unik si dhe ardhmërinë e saj të pastër, të fortë e të sigurt, drejt kah perendimi.
Vafshi në ferr o milet anadollak.
Shqiptar bir Shqiptari
anonymus, ti si po mundohesh të tregosh se kush është shqiptar. Ju që mendoni se jeni kthyer nga perendimi( në të vërtet jeni kthyer nga kriminaliteti) e kënqët Shqipërin në faqet e zeza të gazetave Europiane.
...ah turk a turk!
...ah "rroja ju hupt'!"
ore i krimbur, ore i mykur, ore i sëmuar, ore tradhëtar i gjakut!
Shqiptar bir Shqiptari!
For some reason I feel that a couple of you have misunderstood the objective of this blogspot with your postings.
NYoutlawyer why do u always have to come up with other articles when commenting? I am sure that it is hard for your to open your eyes to reality and have to spend the whole day trying to find some article somewhere to prove your failed points.
Try and read the Newsweek, a magazine that U,S, sentars and other important decision makers read and see what they have to say about how Kosova is progressing (or regressing in your mind).
Serbia and its people should be punished until they understand the concept of justice and the natural rights of humans, such as the right to life, liberty and property. Whoever tries to protect violators of these rights should be punished up to the point when they change their minds and realize that it is not worth it.
Germans were initially punished for what they did in WW I and after WW II they admitted guilt and felt embarrased for what they had done. Serbia has a long way to go to realize that the world is not stupid and no matter how long they refuse to admitt all the responsibility for the wars in the Balkans they are staying right where they are along with Iran and North Korea.
Ok people stop feeding the fucking troll calling himself nyouthouselawyer. Dont you see the whole reason for his miserable existence is coming on this site and cuting and pasting crap. Nyouthouse lawyer i have one thing to say to you- a life unexamined is not worth living- so do humanity a favour and remove your genes from the worlds gene pool.
...ata që "e kënaqën Shqipërinë në faqet e zeza të gazetave Evropiane" janë mu ata që po t'i pyesish se çfarë jan me fe, do ta quajnë vetën mysliman. Këta të fëlliqur e mbajnë edhe ramazanin, e që shkojnë në xhamija kohë pas kohe pë arsye të ndryshme, etj, etj gjatë tërë vitit gjërsa janë duke i kryer të gjitha ato të zeza për të cilat e ke fjalën Ahmet N Murat.
E gjithë bota perendimore e dinë fare mirë që shumica e drogës vjen tek ta nga shtetet myslimane (Afganistani, Arabia, Turqia, etj).
Droga, kontrabanda, prostitucioni, etj, etj po punohen e zhvillohen me zell në shumë e shumë shtete myslimane. Këtë e dijë sepse kam jetuar/punuar në shtete arabe dhe e dij fare mirë se çfarë janë myslimanet (Arabet & Turqit). Mund t'ju them se ma kanë gërdit fenë dhe kulturën islame pa masë!
Shkumbini
OK Konaction...por më qiti prej taktit ky far Ahmet N Murat.
interesting!
Maybe you can help me understand:
1) what does gen. Mladic have to do with Serbia´s eventual membership in the EU?
2) since when is fighting for one´s own country a crime?
3) as we assume that general is not in Serbia, how do you expect them to arrest him?
4) are you saying that general should be sent to kangaroo court where already 6 serbian prisoners died under questionable citcumstances?
5) who is going to pay for war damage caused by NATO agression in 1999? We are talking 100 billion US$ here......
The person or thing tat wrote this last one with all the fucked up questions MUST be on something.
"who is going to pay for the war damages in serbia???"
What a laugh!!!
When Serbia pays the 100's of millions of Euros or the kazillions of millions and babillions of dinars to Kosova's Albanians in reperations for the hundreds of years of murder, plunder and destruction (not to mention the last war, where you dirty fuckers killed thousands of innocent and burnt and destroyed thousands of homes, etc and stole thousands of cars, trucks and tractors, etc, etc).
YOU fucken dirty fuckers...how dare you ask for reperations after wht you did.
Screw you all
From: Albanian son of an Albanian
1) Comitted one of the worst crimes since WWII.
2) Since Srebenica.
3) It's been proven that he is in Serbia.
4) YES that's what I'm saying.
5) You are, and also for Bosnia, Croatia and Kosova.
Serbian teritorry called Kosovo and Metohija is currently occupied by NATO.
Any teritorry taken over by force, will be returned to it´s motherland (sooner or later) by force or peaceful intergartion.
Only Serbs could give up their own land, no one else!
But I see no reason why anyone would do that freely.
If kangaroo court in the Hague was independent and impartial, they would have already had in their jails Clinton, Solana, Albanian prime minister in Kosovo and Metohija and many others.
FOR AS LONG AS SERBIANS WON'T REALIZE THAT THEY ARE LIVING ON FOREIGN LANDS THEY WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO LIVE IN PEACE OR HAVE GOOD NEIGHBORING RELATIONS WITH ALBANIANS.
DIMITRIJE TUCOVIC, SERBIAN SCHOLAR KILLED BY SERBIAN CHAUVINIST.
Say what you will. You fuckers are goin' down.
Rroftë Shqipëria
Long live Albania
Albanian so of an Albanian
“Tucovic meant that for the expansion plans of Serbia to northenr Albania (Skadar/Shkoder)”.
Cvijus,
Even what you claim is true, you are amazing me. How come, Serbia had plans to take Shkoder too?
You guys never stop claim other people’s territories do you? Are you still planing that kind of expansion? Tell me you son of a bitch. Let everybody know what is in Serbia's mind.
And for your info, Chauvinist serbs killed Tucovic after the war. Google it and you will find the info.
The whole world must know that Serbia's dream to have access to the Adriatik Sea and Mediterranean is still alive. That's why the wars started since day one.
Any one that thinks otherwise is just trying to close their eyes and hopes that when they open them the reality would be different.
Dear friends, NOthing has changed. It is the same old story. Only the actors have changed but they play the same scenario. It has always been like this. And as per that shit hole you are talking about, don't worry. We will manage our own business. You are out of our picture OUT. ONCE and for ALL.
At risk of repeating what I've already said I would like to see an end to this.
Mladic should pack his bags or the Serbian government has to force this issue to a close. Yes, if that means liquidation, then Im afraid, that too.
I, will no longer be Mladic's prisoner. My patience and the patience of many Serbs living in Serbia has run too thin.
I dont know what that mans state of mind is at the moment. Does he really think that he can continue like this?
Mark my words, soon there will be a gathering of momentum in Serbia. People will protest that Mladic should hand himself over and stop holding the country to ransom.
This is not the Serbia of the 1990's. Rule of law may not be what it should be but things have moved on.
Dear bg anon,
I really liked your comments.
Hatered and differences left aside people that live in the Balkan peninsula should all look forward. Respect and love for each other.
It might take generations but more people that think like you do from all sides the better for the future of our children. I am Albanian and I am very happy to see that there are people thinking out of the box. Only this way all the Balkan nations will have a future.
I believe that there is no real freedom for us all if any of the Balkan nations lives in misery and is not respected and loved by all of us. We will be living in this area in the future as we have for such a long time. Serbs must understand that there will be no peace in the area without the albanian question solved once and for all. It doesn't matter who was here first. It doesn't matter who is brighter or smarter or stronger. On the other hand Albanians must understand that they are not the only one in the Balkans and there will be no peace for them to if there is no peace and prosperity in Serbia, Macedonia or in Albania proper.
This is the issue. This is the big question that has been hanging over our hads for centuries. The sooner we find a way to love each other the better. Otherwise there would be no winers but all losers.
We have seen too much; we have been through hell, We know that so far we haven't been able to go forward the way we have been trying to. Are we going to repeat the history over and over again?
My dear "bg anon" I have a dream that one day we will cherish our similarities not our diferences. I believe that we do have more things in common as Balkans. Think about it. We share the same mentality, like it or not. The same mentality from Romania, Bulgaria and down in Macedonia Albania and Greece. Think about it guys. We have more things in common and more to share than what we have to condem and blame each other.
Let us learn to live together as good neighbours. Each one in their own land, working together, helping each other, sharing with eachother. We have no choice this is the only opportunity.
Thank you anon. Your tone and comments give me some hope and with any luck both our comments will have even just a little impact on others here.
I am not by nature some kind of traitor who hates his own kind. There are some people who are like that who are quite unhealthy - the mirror image of those who worship war criminals etc. Actually Im quite patriotic in some way.
It is possible to want to see the best for your fellow countrymen (yes countrymen, not ethnic group) and to want to see the best for your neighbours too. There is a common interest.
I might disagree with some Serbs and Albanians but as I say you have given me some hope. Thanks.
all the comments before the last three (not including mine) don't seem to have any relevance to the post, but rather seem to be a bunch of stones being thrown from one side to the other. Having said this, I would also like to comment on the post.
Serbia is experiencing what Croatia experienced before. We too had a runnaway general Ante Gotovina who was on the run for almost 4 years. During this time croatia was unable to begin talks with the EU for membership and this was very frustrating for me. Why should I be punished or why should the whole nation be forced to live on the sidelines of what is now an emerging world power just because one man doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions. I was still quite young during the war so I don't know with great accuracy what happened and why they want him in the ICTY, but if everyone is claiming that he is innocent, why is he running? and even though he's Croatian, if he is guilty of war crimes, I will not stand by that man. I also think that Serbia should not stand by a man who is guilty of war crimes so they have to produce him to the ICTY (to prove his innocence or guilt) and once and for all close this chapter in balkan history.
Way to go Borna,
This is what everyone should come to understand.
Let us send all wanted people to trial and if they are innocent good for them and their people, but if they are guilty then we should punish them so no more Sebrenica, Krajina or Racak in this part of the world where we are privileged to live in. It is one of teh best and most beautiful places on the face of this earth. Let us and our children enjoy it and live in peace.
all criminals of whatever nationality should pay for their crimes if guilty. Let the innocents enjoy life in a free and prosperous Balkan.
how absolutely fitting and distressful that this minimalistic advertisement-less kosovo blog would become the virtual battleground for anonymous albanians and serbs to come settle their scores in such a sophomoric and broken-english kind of way.
I second that
How depresing is to read comments made by NYoutlawyer after you read bg anon, Borna and even Cvijus. Do not get me wrong there will be people like that from all sides who know nothing but to point fingers and picture the other side in dark colors. Are there criminal serbs? Yes for sure How about Albanians? Yes for sure How about Croatians, Bosnians etc. For sure all over the world. Criminals have no country no nationality they bow only to their acts and money. However there is a huge difference between them and people who fight for freedom and prosperity and when I say "fight" doesn't necessarely mean killings. YOu can fight for someones freedom and be wellrespected and heard from the civilized democratic word. YOu can be a fighter like Gandhi or other pacifists that became legends of freedom and democracy. That's why I am depresed when I read comments made by NYoutlawyer and other people like him who preffer to only point fingers. But believe me NYoutlawyer, there are a lot more fingers pointed towards you and when I say "you" it is not neccessarely you in person, but people who think like you and mabe worse have also acted in such a way inspired by thoughts and emotions like yours. There is no peace and prosperity in the Balkans if even one of the nations is supressed blackmailed and oppresed. Stop fingerpointing and start handshaking. Believe me it is the only way. Any other way is just wrong and would be suicidial for teh Balkan aNations.
I believe there are more people that think like bg anon or Borna or even that Anonymus Albannian guy. There are a lot more people like them. Better be.
One thing is for sure Kosova will never be run by serbia again.
Serb areas will be run by Serbia and be prosperous while Albanians will continue to be poor because of the rate at which they reproduce.
"One thing is for sure Kosova will never be run by serbia again.
Serb areas will be run by Serbia and be prosperous while Albanians will continue to be poor because of the rate at which they reproduce".
Poor you. How silly of you. I really pitty you.
By the way, be careful of the extra amount of sperm that according to you Albanians are good at (the rate at which they reproduce),because your mothers and sisters will be left pregnant and then you will have a small albanian brother and sister you shit hole. Love and Peace bro.
Cvijus, you disapointed me. I was about to change my mind and think highly of you.
Do not be a disapointment of your own race. You will be hated by your own people and the Albanians will pitty you.
Cvijus,
Thank god you went and removed that comment of yours. You are still in my good books.
Keep up the good work. Let's change our opinions without insulting each other.
I mean "Let's exchange our opinions without insulting each other".
But I gues this is a very hard thing to do for Balkans. If there is no yelling and insulting there is no real conversation, is it?
What the ICTY is doing is the right thing. If serbia a.k.a Scum Manifest continues to hold such criminals then SC (scum manifest) should be punished to the full extent of the law, such as cut foreign aid. EU has become a joke negotating with terrorists (SC), you can never say you are fighting for peace if you don't crush the small ant with a big powerful foot--it's time EU did that to Scum Manifest.
Don't try to say Ratko isn't hiding in serbia, because it's a proven fact he is. Also how is he holding 8 million captive---wait are you telling me 8 million people can't find 1 person?? Or is it because serbs don't want to release him? Also why should talks continues if Mladic is captured, there are more generals who have done almost as much bad things as him...I say serbia has no right on nothing until all wanted are captured and stand before a jury OUTSIDE OF SERBIA
Easy my friend.
Argue but do not insult others.
Let's keep the level of comunication high. Do not fall in NYoutlawyer level. Look at bg anon or even cvijus, he is getting better.
"At 6:57 AM, Anonymous said...
O Ahmet N Murati,
Do të vijë dita shumë shpejtë, e do të na njohish shumë mirë neve Shqiptarët e pastër. Tani për tani nuk keni nevoj të na njihëni. Ju dhe tipat si ju janë duke e ngadalësuar për të mos thënë ndaluar kombin tonë që të riintegrohët përsëri në/kah perendimi.
"
Kush duhet të integrohet më shumë se unë me Perendimin
Pse të jesh Musliman jo fundamentalist qenka problem në këtë botë? Ti zgjedhi fjalet edhe lexo me mire e mos filozofo me ideologjin komuniste. Mos perdor sharje se une jam shqiptar qe guxoj t'i flas qart e shqip e anglisht ne interesat e shqiptarise jo ne Turqi e Arabi por këtu ku jemi vet shqiptarë në Kosovë
Sa për dijeni unë prej krejta gjuhëve që di asnjë nuk figuron të jetë nga Lindja
di të flas shqip që gjuha ime amtare.
Anglisht, frëngjisht, italisht, spanjisht, gjermanisht edhe këtu hynë kroacishtja, gjuha boshnjake, serbishtja dhe maqedonishtja. Tjerat hiq asnjë fjalë nuk di as turqisht e as arabisht edhe nuk dua të jam servil i asnjë sistemi apo shteti tjetër vetëm për Kosovën Shtet i Barabartë me të gjitha shtetet me karrikë në Kombet e Bashkuara edhe në Parlamentin Europian (he he para serbisë, urime shkije keni mbetur prapa), e kështu me rradh.
Kështu që mos fol për ata shqiptarë të vërtetë pse mos janë shqiptarë të vërtetë vetëm shqiptarët protestant apo katolik apo ata të pa fe (ateistat). Një gjë që na bën neve shiptarët është harmonia në mes të konfesioneve që kanë shqiptarët, islamit, katolikët roman, ortodoksët, e ndoshta edhe protestantët se për tjerë nuk di.
The facts are that as long as Albanians do not know about birth control they will be a very poor people. The poorest in Europe in fact. What they need is a China like One child policy.
gujgli - oh Im in Belgrade alright. Whats more I choose to live here. I could leave tomorrow, I have the papers, but feel strongly that people should stay.
Particularly people with something to offer to this society.
As you know many smart people left Serbia during the 90's. That brain drain didnt do any good.
Im good at sensing the situation. Yeah of course right now there are no signs of any protests. But Im operating under the premise that if this situation drags on for weeks and months.
You watch how the public mood will blacken if that happens. The media too will line up (drip drip) one by one against Mladic and get involved.
If sanctions are threatened this time people will not tolerate it. I will not only join them but take a hand in organising protests if necessary. The only way an effective campaign could be mounted would be if it really was of ordinary people. So whilst the politicians can join they should be prevented for exploiting the situation.
There is a line to be drawn. Surely even you have a limit?
Now (everybody) I dont sweep things under the carpet even if they are nasty arguments:
Its true that Kosovo Albanians have a high birth rate. But hey Kosovo Serbs had the second highest birthrate in the former Yugoslavia (the average was 1.3 children less than Kosovo Albanians I think, not such a large difference). Some unholy ethnic theorists probably can picture the two bitter enemies trying to outbreed one another. :(
Cut the crap. Its proven by sociologists and demographers the world over that in rural and undeveloped communities the birthrate is higher. Exactly to form Kosovo as the most undeveloped region of Yugoslavia had the highest birthrate and Slovenia, the most developed, the lowest.
Big deal. Now next time a conspiracist starts going on about this issue answer him with the above reply and tell him to move on.
"Im good at sensing the situation. Yeah of course right now there are no signs of any protests. But Im operating under the premise that if this situation drags on for weeks and months.You watch how the public mood will blacken if that happens."
Nothing will occure even if this situation go on for years. Of course it won't, he'll be in Hague or Del Ponte will step down. Her mandate is over by the end of next year. If Mladic somehow stays free which i doubt he'll be a free man in 2008.
Karadzic is even in better situation, there is no evidence where he could be nor time to organize new investigations.
And again, oppinions poll show that Mladic still got majority of support, that's very important and you can't ignore it.
Like I said anon its a matter of time. It will unfold as I outlined the longer Mladic holds Serbia hostage.
It has become unimportant now whether he's guilty or not. Whats important is that people in Serbia will be affected by the situation in a negative way.
If Mladic is so popular where are the protests supporting him? As you see they are arresting all his confidants now. And nothing from his supporters...
No, even those who are suspicious of the Hague, or even those who think he might be innocent are ready to accept his arrest.
gujgli Mladic is one person. Serbia is 10 million. What dont you understand about that?
Dignity and honour. Heh heh. Define that to me please. Im serious what does it mean? (The last refuge of the scoundrel). You know using the words 'national dignity' doesnt fool or manipulate the majority anymore in Serbia.
Well perhaps it works with uneducated voters but middle Serbia isnt fooled by it as they used to be. And that means you too - I dont think you are uneducated, you are likely part of that middle Serbia. I read your words but you will have to decide whats more important to you. I dont represent NGO or Cedo Jovanovic Serbia. I see that as unhealthy as a Radical party Serbia. I also see that quite often the Radicals are in the right. My eyes are open about all of this. The national interest is that Mladic goes to the Hague.
Thats my opinion, if it makes me some kind of enemy for you, I am really sorry.
Your point about Croatia - Britain refused to let Croatia proceed with EU negotiations until Gotovina was arrested. Remember that? Del Ponte knew that Gotovina was about to be arrested - remember that?
Croatia has been in the queue for EU membership for nearly a decade - remember that? When we were fighting in Bosnia, Kosovo and against NATO Croatia was lobbying for EU membership. Who were the fools, you tell me?
You are using that as evidence of a conspiracy against us? Come on man.
I am not a dishonest person, if you want to give me instances of unfair treatment of Serbs probably we will agree most of the time. But the difference is that I also remember the times when we Serbs have been unfair to others as well.
I am a human being and individual first of all and a member of an ethnic group or country only after that.
So, yes I will help organise protests if or when they become necessary. I will not allow these people in this country to suffer anymore. It is our joint interest.
"Why Serbia can't judge Milosevic? Mladic? He would surrender immediately. I know Serbia is not US ;) but again, we must extradict Mladic to show that we are democratic society but we can't judge him because we're not? That some biased approach"
The answer is quite simple actually:
First, Mladic been in serbia for over 10 years and you have done nothing other than glorify him -why wasn't he arrested if you are so unbiased?
Second, the war criminals of Germany,Japan and Rewanda were not tried by their own country but rather the allies. Why should your war criminals be any different.
Th truth of the matter is that Serbia is not a democratic society-quite few of the parlamient members are from Millosevic part and radical party-hence the mistrust of the world towards them. And finally how many deadlines and promises have Sebian government made to deliver Mladic, yet Eu for some reason always expects optimistic results-how dissapointing...
gujgli
If we are talking about Mladic issue then Mladic was military leader of the Bosnian Serbs. Again, I cant tell you strongly enough he is only one man. This isnt the 1990's any more (or the 1800's). States are made up of citizens who are more numerous and more important than military or political leaders.
Not all the Serbian leadership is at the Hague. There are the Kontic's the Kostic's and Jovic's, the Kadijevic's etc. And it was only recently that (kako se zove onaj?...) you know with the crooked mouth General who led a political party (SDP)... Anyway, he was sent to the Hague only recently.
Whether they were murdered there or not is another question. I have never been a fan of conspiracies, such opinions always leave a person easier to manipulate. I prefer facts. But I do agree that the recent happenings at the Hague were a serious embarassment for the Hague and its credibility. Also embarassing was when Del Ponte and that Doctor started to use similar conspiracy theories saying that Milosevic poisoned himself. Well, they soon shut up about that didnt they?
I think that the way the US has run Guantanamo and Abu Garib is a disgrace. An absolute disgrace which undermines their human rights. That is not the way to run the planet in my opinion and lets face it the US practically does run the planet, well them and the multinationals.
I dont want US courts to judge US soldiers! For Gods sake you must know they will be biased in favour of their own. They think their own are 'precious babies' and that anybody against them deserves what they get. So, no your argument doesnt work at all. If anything that argumentation persuades me more that suspected war criminals cant be tried in their own countries.
But, putting that argument to one side. Lets be serious about this. Do you honestly believe that Milosevic wouldnt have made a circus out of the proceedings against him if they began in Serbia in 2001? Our country was still run by criminals until recently. Look at how Legija, Cume and those thugs could do what they want. Look at that crook Klajevic. Look at all those crooked judges! Most were appointed by Milosevic government. Fair trial?
No it would not have been possible for Milosevic to be tried in Serbia. You must recognise this. Maybe you could reply that biased justice in Serbia would have been better than biased justice in the Hague but Im not sure.
Look at how it started with the financial charges. If Milosevic managed to get out of that one, the Stambolic charge would have come up. That too would have been a circus and if he managed to be acquitted then the Curuvija charge, then possibly under international pressure a war crimes charge.
The Radicals and Socialists would claim persecution of Milosevic and the situation would not be so different from today, except there would be even more hatred between the so called patriotic and democratic blocks. Bitter hatred, even worse than today.
I think that the idea of citizenship of civic responsibility must take hold in the Balkans (and elsewhere). One can remain patriotic, keep ones own culture alive (I would argue abandon parts of your culture if they are negative, ie blood feuds, and maintain positive aspects of your culture at all costs, but that is my personal opinion).
So, I think once some time has passed it will be possible. Some people will never be persuaded. They will always consider those of other ethnic groups as somehow inferior. They are a lost cause, although we should try to educate them anyway.
On Ceku, I said it before. I really dont like warlords or people that kill, as political leaders. In fact I just dont like murderers whether they murdered in so called freedom fighting cause or butchered civilians isnt so different to me.
Im afraid most of what you say regarding him is correct but I cant condemn him until he is tried.
And again I agree with most of what you say (in your post to me) about the Hague. Its not your opinion btw its quite factual what you say. I cant stand Seselj personally and think he's dangerous, but its a disgrace that he's been waiting in custody for years. Its a joke. He gave himself up voluntarily even before they drew up the charges. But when Haradinaj gives himself up, he is released immediately.
So, yes thats double standards or hypocricy. But and this is the important bit, just because we know that is the truth does not give us reason to start supporting people like Seselj out of bitterness. You have to use your head about what you think will bring benefit to this country. Yeah the way the world is run stinks but its not as if we in Serbia have been much fairer to those we have seen as our enemies.
Chris again, with respect, you have stated something untrue.
Serbia's special war crimes prosecution service has received credit in international circles.
I think it was the OSCE who also stated this in a recent report.
The Hague and Del Ponte also commended them and we are waiting to see whether its true that some cases will be transferred from the Hague to the Serbian court.
As you can see in my previous post I had grave reservations about trying characters such as Milosevic or Mladic until recently. For top figures like that its still difficult but i'd be willing to put my neck out and say that trials of less important figures can now be tried succesfully and fairly in Serbia.
There have been some cases such as Sasa Cvjetan which have been tried succesfully. Im not an expert on the law but I understand there are more cases going through the courts. This is a rare positive so Im happy to report this.
gujgli
No that logic doesnt work at all and I'll show you why.
If we are always waiting for one country (or 2 or 3, 4, 5 countries) like the US before we make decisions regarding international policy such as the prosecution of war crimes then NOTHING will be done. You know it and I know it.
One rather banal example perhaps is Kyoto. Do you think that all the countries trying to make an improvement in the worlds environment should throw their hands up and increase their pollution to US levels just because the US wont sign?
In other words by deciding to adhere to a certain line lets say insisting that the US has soldiers tried as well and by knowing that this wont happen what you are really doing is opposing the concept of international justice.
Thats the reality of it isnt it?
I dont agree that no justice is better than some justice.
And yeah you can scream its not fair and you would be right but did anybody ever teach you life was fair? As you've noticed it isnt, this world isnt perfect so its normal to assume that there wont be the same rules for everybody even if we should push as hard as we can to make this so.
I will answer some of your other points later today
And yes the guy I was referring to was Momcilo Perisic who until he was caught spying for the US wasnt on the Hagues list.
And those guys were not minor figures. Most of them were on the rotating Presidency which used to be one of the most powerful, if not THE most powerful body in Yugoslavia. You can add Momir Bulatovic to that group as well.
Yeah but you dont know that Milosevic was murdered, you believe he was murdered there is a great difference. You know how many people ended up looking stupid after the poison theory went wrong. Both the anti Hague lobby and the pro Hague lobby - each with their own conspiracy theory purely designed to prove and justify their own opinion vis a vis the Hague. Im not interested in their agendas.
If by murder you are referring to the fact that he was not allowed to go to Russia to recover I have a number of points, not used by either side of the debate.
Firstly what would be wrong in his defence applying for recovery in Holland? They have some of the best hospitals in the world there. This would be an ideal solution. The prosecution would be hard pressed to oppose such an application. The only 'concession' to Milosevic is that he would spend some months in a hospital rather than in jail. And there was no question that the jail hospital was inadequate. On the other hand Milosevic would be closeby so that if he made a recovery the trial could resume in a short period as possible.
Secondly what possible incentive would you or I (or anybody) have in a situation where we are being tried by what we firmly believe is an illegal court (which would likely find me or you guilty)? What incentive would either of us or Milosevic have to return to Holland when our (his) family is in Russia and when we know that there are others in a similar position (Djordjevic) who are staying in Russia and there isnt a thing the Hague can do about it?
Man, the truth is you or I would remain in Russia isnt it? I expect that Milosevic would do the same, EVEN, even if he didnt plan to at first. All of them, his wife, his son, his daughter, his brother, his lawyer they would all say 'hej Slobo stay here, you've done enough to defend your country, they will make you die in prison'.
And he would stay.
So, when you tell me that he should have recovered in Russia is that what you are really saying. Or are you saying he should have been allowed to escape. Lets be clear on this. If you are only saying that he should have been allowed to recover then why didnt they request that he recover in another country?
So Milosevic was extradited in an underhand and illegal manner. Maybe, but then what? Laws are being broken in this country every day. Milosevic's government frequently undermined the rights of private citizens. People were tortured, arrested, disapeared. Yeah maybe not as much as some people pretend but it did happen.
And an ex-President Milosevic should expect no extra rights than any private citizen. Certainly he was treated much more decently than he treated Stambolic.
In fact if we use your common rule for what happened to Stambolic as a standard then we should have copied this and had Milosevic killed. I also believe in common rules or principles but think we should always strive to the highest standard not try to copy a standard if it is low and make excuses by saying its not our fault if the general standard is low.
Kljajevic is a crook. The reason I say that is because I have information on his activities. I've been following him and all those other crooks like Radulovic and company and finally somebody is doing something about it. Excuse me for saying it before the court process has begun but I feel strongly about it.
I would 'excuse' any Serb who saw Ceku murder civilians from calling him a murderer before the trial. But although there is serious doubt I dont have such information - although I didnt investigate it. Therefore I dont condemn him as guilty.
But, yes I do think that the warrant should have been honoured. Its a pity because it would give Serbia an opportunity to show its courts have improved. It would be vital he got a fair trial. After all if he's guilty it wont make any difference if the trial is conducted to the best possible standards.
I have told you my opinion about Seselj I think we agree on this. I am not guilty of treating people like bags - that is one charge I am not guilty of. I cant stand people that do that. And you know who treated us most like bags in the 1990's - our own politicians thats who. Those politicians who think we are so stupid that we cant see whats really going on so they sell us cheap lies like Bogoljub's salad or Toma's price of bread.
Some of us may be easy to fool but some of us, including me get very angry when insulted with this kind of thing.
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