Tuesday, May 09, 2006

Status to be decided in November with or without Serbs (Koha Ditore)

Koha Ditore reports in its lead story that the key international mediator Martti Ahtisaari is convinced that the issue of Kosovo will be concluded this year.

Quoting a ‘reliable’ source from Vienna, Koha Ditore reports that the negotiations on Kosovo status will be concluded at the end of November and the solution that will be decided will be applied even if Belgrade does not accept it.

“Ahtisaari is convinced to conclude the work by the end of November,” said the senior European official, says the paper.

The unnamed official said in an informal meeting where Koha Ditore was present that Serbs should sober up and face the messages related to Kosovo status that the internationals have been sending for months now, because the prevailing opinion in Ahtisaari’s team and also among other key international factors is that Belgrade will not accept the solution and that the international community is preparing to move forward even without Serbian consent.

According to the same source some Kosovo Serb representatives have told Ahtisaari that they are ‘fed up’ with the current situation and that they just ask for ‘guarantees for security and autonomy’ and they would accept the solution agreed in Vienna.

The source further said that it is essential that Russia has changed its stance and that it no longer supports the division of Kosovo. “Until recently Russia supported the option of dividing Kosovo in two parts, but now they have changed their position and are no longer an obstacle,” it said. Furthermore, the Russians have made it clear to Kostunica, but he pretends not to hear, says the source.

In a separate box within the article Koha Ditore says that, according to a senior diplomatic source, Serbs complained to Ahtisaari that Kosovo shouldn’t be taken away from them because of Milosevic as it would be unfair. “You cannot punish us for something Milosevic did,” they told him. “But we cannot reward you, either,” Ahtisaari is quoted as replying.

66 comments:

Anonymous said...

I really dont understand how clear it should be made to Serbia, that Kosovo is becoming an independent country. The Contact Group has indicated in their guiding principles that: no-partition, no pre-1999, no unificiation with other countries, and will of the people of Kosovo. Hello.
They (Serbia) are either deaf or in total denial of whats going to happen. Maybe its better for them to understand that these talks are not about the future status of Kosovo, but they are about the future composition (political, economical) of an independent state of Kosovo. The sooner they understand this, probable the better for the Kosovo Serbs. If they dont understand this, as it seems, the international community will impose its will (and the people of Kosov's will) of declaring an independent Kosovo (with or without Russian and Chinese approval, although it seems almost clear that Russia is unlikely protecting Serbia's interests).

Anonymous said...

First anonymous. Don't be stupid. The UN never intended in resolution 1244 that Kosovo be independent. It is Serb land and will be Serb land forever.

Anonymous said...

it was never a serbs land. and it will never be. and you don't be smart either.

Anonymous said...

Hey Serbian Blogger-Defender,

First and foremost, the goal of 1244 is to" Facilitate a political process designed to determine Kosovo's future status, taking into account the Rambouillet accords (S/1999/648). Now if you dont know the Ramouillet accords please let me remind you it includes "the will of the people" too. If you want to ignore what that really means in Kosovo, populated 90 % with Albanians who demand independence, that you only prove my point of either being deft or in denial. In terms of being Serbian land (forever), those thoughts were ones protected "heroically" in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and finally Kosovo. You really did a great job in keeping them yours.

Anonymous said...

Well this is nothing very new really.

first anonamous its pretty clear that Kosovo will likely gain conditional independence. That doesnt mean that the Serbian government has to agree with that. They are still allowed to oppose this or try to convince the internationals that it is a mistake.

Prepare for genocide against Kosovo Serbs said...

Serbs are people too and their will is to remain a part of Serbia.

Anonymous said...

I agree that the Serbian people are people too. However, in this case, the only will that will matter is that of Kosovo's people. Serbs can try and work of not recognizing this outcome, but that wold put Serbia against the international community's will. I dont know if that is very smart considering Serbia's economic and political position today. In the end, Serbia will be the first to recognize this outcome for their own benefit. Its Belarus or Brussels my friend.

Prepare for genocide against Kosovo Serbs said...

Serbs make up part of Kosovos people.

Serbia will always be against the international communities will as long as Serbs who fought in Bosnia are alive. Why givie up the Serb Holy land happily.

Anonymous said...

can you explain what do Bosnian Serbs have to do with this? Its Kosovo Serbs decision.

Genocide against Kosovo Serbs is coming said...

AS long as Serbs are wanted by the hague Serbia will be punished as they are seen by Del ponte as their supporters.

Anonymous said...

Very strange and very dangerous !

I read a lot of western media and talk in my profession with hogh rank officials from world wide, British, Americans, Germans, Spannish etc. And NO ONE of them thinks Kosovo will be independent. On the other hand, Kosovo media keeps pumping in lies what is said and rumours from different meetings in Europe and elsewhere. I find it VERY strange and VERY unfair to make the Kosovo Albanians think that they will gain independece. It is totally crystal clear to everyone outside Kosovo, that Kosovo Albanians will gain alot of this deal, but not be an independent country. I dont care what you think or want or wish, but the fact is that you will see for yourself what will be the solution. You will be surprised and angry.

Lee L, FL

Anonymous said...

way to go Lee, and by the way, LET US BE FREE. (with or without your approval, or of those high rank officials you are in contact with) ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .......

Anonymous said...

Lee will you shut up, are you high on crystal meth? The Kosovar Media is not making up one line, in fact it's accuracy range is increasing more and more. The fact is Kosova is going to be independent with at least 92% support. It's not only Albanians that want independents but also the Bosniacs, Turks, etc.

Kosova is not serbia's holy land, I'm sorry to dissapoint. Just because you claim it, it doesn't mean shit. I could claim belcrap my holy land, should I get it because I'm claiming it now?

Arber_Dardani said...

Isn't consistently preaching hatred, as is done by the Serbian people, tiresome after a while?

Give it a rest already and stop living in a late 19th century and early 20th century mythological world.

It's about time the Serbian people came to grips with reality and look towards bettering their future, if not for themselves now, hopefully for their children.

Serbs in Kosovo face genocide said...

Why is Serbia the only country in the world told to forget its history. Serbs never will do that. NEVER!

Anonymous said...

what's good for shiftars is good for serbs...shiftars want independence? Serbs want independence from shiftars. It cuts both ways. Divided Kosovo is the only way forward.

Anonymous said...

www.washingtontimes.com

Kosovo Consternation
By James "Ace" Lyons Jr.
May 9, 2006


Among the most important priorities of U.S. global policy is combating the international traffic in drugs and in persons (often a euphemism for women and children forced into prostitution).
Because of the linkage and overlap among terrorist networks and organized criminal gangs, the battle against trafficking is also an integral part of the war on terror.
Fighting organized criminal activities is difficult even in countries with a functioning legal system, honest police and the rule of law. Think how much harder that would be when dealing with an independent country where the authorities are an integral part of the criminal enterprise.
Amazingly, that's what the international community seems to want to help establish in the Serbian province of Kosovo. When Kosovo was placed under United Nations administration and NATO military control at the end of the 1999 war, some hoped the province soon would meet at least minimum qualifications for some kind of independence, as demanded by Muslim Albanians who greatly outnumber the remaining Christian Serbs.
That hasn't happened. Instead the drug, sex slave, weapons, money-laundering, and other illicit trades that helped fuel the conflicts of the 1990s have continued to grow. Just this month Marek Antoni Nowicki, Poland's leading human-rights lawyer and the U.N.'s international ombudsman for Kosovo until last year, denounced the "real criminal state in power" in Kosovo, working right under the nose of the U.N. and NATO. "Crime groups have been able to operate with impunity," said Mr. Nowicki. "These networks can rely on the weakness of the public institutions to sanction their operations." Mr. Nowicki's charges came on the heels of a March 2006 report by the U.N.'s internal watchdog agency, the Office of Internal Oversight, which found the head of U.N. Mission -- who holds virtually dictatorial powers -- derelict for ignoring fraud and other abuses at the airport in Kosovo's capital, Pristina.
None of this should come as any surprise. Even in 1999, when the Clinton administration decided to take military action in support of the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), there were numerous and credible intelligence and news reports of the KLA's criminal and terrorist inclinations. Predictably, KLA veterans found even more opportunity to ply their illicit trades when, ostensibly demobilized, they were recruited by the UN into Kosovo's police, civil administration, and quasi-military "Kosovo Protection Corps." The foxes were asked to guard the chicken coop -- another U.N. fiasco.
As described in reports issued by the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, criminal activity in Kosovo continues to be closely tied to operations of the Albanian mafia across Europe, from home bases in Kosovo and adjacent areas of Albania and Macedonia. For example (from 2003): "According to the International Organization for Migration and EUROPOL, the principal supplier countries [i.e., for trafficked women] today are Moldova (up to 80 percent: many Moldovan villages do not have any more women), Bulgaria, Romania and Ukraine. The networks used various routes, including the route that passes through Kosovo, Albania, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (see the village of Veledze, the regional centre of prostitution) and Montenegro, then through Italy. The Albanian mafia has set up a real cartel on prostitution. It handles more than 65 percent of the trafficking in women in the Balkans." From 2004: "In Kosovo, as many as 80 percent of internally trafficked victims are children."
The response of international bureaucrats to this disgrace is predictable: ignore it and hope nobody notices. Or even better, pretend all is going well, declare the mission a success -- and hand power over to the criminals as the new sovereign "government."
If that happens, even the minimal interference in the Kosovo-based gangs' operations will be removed. A criminal state not seen since the defunct Taliban regime in Afghanistan will be set up with easy proximity to the rest of Europe.
Such an outcome would make a mockery of some of the United States' most important global security priorities. While the international community desires some sort of "closure" to the ongoing mess in Kosovo (and this is understandable), it is hard to think of a supposed solution worse than independence. Seven years after the 1999 war, this is one Clinton legacy that demands urgent reconsideration.

James "Ace" Lyons Jr. is a retired admiral in the U.S. Navy. He is a former commander-in-chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet (the largest single military command in the world), senior U.S. military representative to the United Nations and as deputy chief of Naval operations and was principal adviser on all Joint Chiefs of Staff matters.

...and that from the military that saved your miserable corrupt asses...

Anonymous said...

Blogger 6:33 PM.

I also read this by this very high ranking officer yesterday.
The Albanians in Kosova still think they have our support. Probably they have not followed our media the last two months. Thee is very little support from our government to make Kosovo a new country, but they dont realize that. Serbia is also stupid not to hand over Mladic. As Lee wrote earlier, I also follow media and have some friends in both UN and in our government and I dont think for a second that Kosova will be a new country. No way.

Eddie, Boston MA

Anonymous said...

I too, think it is unfortunate the Mladic and Karazdic aren't in custody...Ceku should be too, for that matter...and Haradinaj should be back in the Hague...Orwellian days we live in...we will have Kosovo here in the US with the mexican illegals---it will happen here...illegals demanding rights.

Anonymous said...

...more on albanians 'multi-ethnic' kosovo....

Wednesday, May 10, 2006

Albanians stone bus
V.N., May 9, 2006

KO­SOV­SKA MI­TRO­VI­CA - The bus transporting Serbs from Osojane to
Kosovska Mitrovica was stoned on Tuesday in the Albanian settlement of
Rudnik in northern Kosovo. The only consequence was material damage.

Bus driver Aca Trajkovic said that the bus, which was clearly marked "UN",
was transporting approximately 60 Serbs, among them a large number of
children and elderly, when it was stoned in Rudnik at about 9:30 a.m. Two
side windows were smashed.

The incident occurred near a local school during the long break when there
are a large number of children as well as adults by the side of the road, he
said. He added that the bus has double windows; only the outside windows
were broken and consequently none of the passengers was hurt.

Trajkovic reminded that this is not the first attack on this bus, which
provides regular service on Tuesdays and Fridays so that residents can go
and buy basic necessities in northern Kosovska Mitrovica.

Yesterday's incident is the second attack on Serbs in this part of Kosovo in
the last three days. Recently near Kosovska Mitrovica a vehicle driven by
Father Srdjan Stankovic came under armed attack but no one was injured.

Anonymous said...

an article written about what an "anonymous" person says....now that's credible..lolol

Anonymous said...

to anony and mexicans of the US and Albanians of Kosovo--it is being written about in the US media now.


Kosovo in America
By Accuracy In Media: (05/08/2006)

Many Americans scoff at the idea that Mexican-rights activists might someday reclaim most of the Southwest United States as Mexican territory. It can't happen here, they say. But it is happening in Serbia, where the United Nations (with the assistance of the U.S.) is working to grant autonomy or even independence to Kosovo, a province of Serbia, on the grounds that it has an Albanian majority.

As a U.N. press release put it, "Independence and autonomy are among options that have been mentioned for the province, where Albanians outnumber Serbs and others by 9 to 1." Our media also highlight this fact.

But as William Dorich notes, in our AIM Report, "The media tell us that Albanians are a majority of Kosovo but never publish the fact that 40 percent are illegal aliens who cross the border into Serbia as easily as Mexicans cross our borders each night in San Diego." Dorich notes that Serbs have been made nearly extinct in Kosovo but were a majority of the population in 1939.

The question then becomes: what kind of precedent will Kosovo set for the rest of the world, including the U.S.? The process entails the dismemberment of a sovereign nation state. Could it happen here?

It's not as far-fetched as you might think. If the United Nations continues its support for "indigenous peoples," as the Mexicans in the Southwest U.S. define themselves, the U.S. could become the next Serbia, and the Southwest could become the next Kosovo.

The outcome of this controversy is the survival of America as we know it.


Cliff Kincaid is the Editor of the AIM Report.

Anonymous said...

Lee and Ed,

Since when the US gov. moved to Florida and Boston? Come to think of, what newspapers you are reading that have indicated that Kosovo is not becoming independent. NY Times, WPOst, the Economist, among others have all had an article or an op-ed piece indicating clearly that Kosovo is moving towards independence. What are you guys reading? Tanjug, RTS?

Anonymous said...

Lee and Eddie, wow, quite different from Ivan and Cvijus. LOL. When did you guys get the citizenship? How was the test? I bet it took you a year to learn the history part of it, keeping in mind the BS your heads are filled up with. Anyway, what you say is absolute BS.

ps. check out Newsweek
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12616474/site/newsweek/

here it is, so you wont have to search: "The U.N. is expected to declare Kosovo the world’s newest country later this year—perhaps even as early as this summer."

Anonymous said...

He he- Lee and Eddie. How nice guys from Florida and Mass caring about what headlines are saying about Kosova. Last time I checked there is quite a big percentage of Amricans that can't find New Orleans on the map-but Kosova they even know the headlines. Nice masquarade pitiful serbs- bravo...

Anonymous said...

63% of Americans can't find in the map New Orleans. I know because I'm Ameriacn myself. On the contrary what these "Americans" are claiming I can tell you that USA is looking forward to setting up a new democratic state in Europe. It's time America did this, the same idea was applied when Europe tried to set a multi-ethnic country in europe which was called "yugoslavia." But it is clear that serbs can not live without anyone peacefuly without murder and corruption. More and more America is supporting the Kosova system while we watch serbia hold the whole world captive with their terrorism. After we're done with Iraq/Iran we should evade serbia and bring all these crimes into justice.

John H.S
America

Anonymous said...

As I knew 3 months before NATO started bombing Serbs, and the strategy they had in mind to do this, I know now that Kosova is going to be independent. For the first one quite frankly I didn’t believe them, now I have no reason not to.

One other proof is the stance of Switzerland. Let me ask you something. When was the last time you heard Swiss come up with such a clear declaration as is the case with Kosova?

So my friendly advise is, get a real name and get real for once in your life.

Enjoy the show, as it is coming close to start unfolding.

Anonymous said...

IF it does manage to get independence, what does this outline?

1. New Flag
2. They will be Kosovars i.e. not Albanians or other

This is a problem. Of all the Kosovar Albanians I know this will take away the essence of their lives. No longer an Albanian!

This stage of change will be more volatile than the current situation, and I will expect civil unrest to be high on the agenda.

Since it is clear that independence will be granted, I have noticed political and business prominent of Kosovo(a) making strong moves on Macedonia. These moves are Albanian directed and impose grabbing power/land. From what I heard they plan to increase the Albanian population over the next two years with concentration on the side of Skopje by an 15%.

I work in Macedonia and many although born in Macedonia are hard core Albanian Nationalists.

In all this is a problem with identity, and its a dangerous fixation. If the fight of Kosovo manages to be resolved, although I feel independence if far to premature for its people, situation and economic climate, that Macedonia will become the new Kosovo Problem, however far more tactful and organized, and in turn extremely difficult to control or find solutions.

Kosovo has been a good political training ground for the Albanians and Muslims in the heart of Europe paid for but the Internationals. I suppose that is capacity building?

Simon said...

Kosovo and Metohija is land that is serbian despite current political decision.

Has been and always will be. What has been taken away by force, will be taken back by force too - sooner or later.

Konaction said...

Is there something else rather than force in your serbian heads!?

ivan said...

Siptari,

Last night a friend of mine who lives in Germany told me what happened in his childrens school. Its a German school, and they had parent teachers conference. The school has 400 pupils, and out of those 400, 30 are "yugoslavs" ( meaning Serbian or Croatian), and 10 are Albanian. The parents of the Albanian children requested that their children have classes in albanian language. The German principle reacted by saying , "if you want your children to learn albanian , then send them b ack to albania. This is Germany, and we speak German".

Why do you feel so special where ever you go? why do you feel that the whole world has to lower themselves to your primitive level, just so you would not exit your safe zone, and try to behave like civilized people. this is a small example, but it represents how your expansion is taking place.

Konaction said...

Cetnik,

Why would you think that the most radical nation in the world is more civilized thas us?

I'm working in an organization where there are 30% Serbian employers and none of them knows anything else except being an electrician or repairing elevators and in the past they had one more duty repairing generators :) - The rest are translators or handyman! Do you know what would they ask the teacher? - When is serbian army and police coming back? (That's primitive) And the teacher would say go to Serbia if you want that!

And by the way we are special and Kosovo's "problem" is special as our American fellows would say :)

You may die with the fact you couldn't keep Kosovo, you weren't civilized enough... or we were smarter :)

Check Swiss parliament and see what's their 3rd official language going to be.

Cvijus011 said...

Konaction,

I got my masters degree in Germany, with me at the university were studying 20 Serbs (10 of them were doing their PhD). Do you know how many albanians were studying at the same time? Only one, and he quit after two semesters, kicked out cause he failed all of his exams. And I'm talking of the Humbold University in Berlin, in a city which is full of you and you had only ONE student. Afterwards I worked in Frankfurt for a German organization and there are many Serbs working on high positions, whereas albos come after the working hours to clean up our offices.

Btw, being an electrician needs some education, so I wouldn't be so ironical if I were you.

Also I wouldn't talk that much about being civilized, cause look what civilization are your children learning about, how to stone Serb busses. Now that's civilization (albanian way).

In Swisserland there are three official languages: French, Italian and German.
If the fourth becomes albanian, it wouldn't suprise me if you make overthere the same shit you made in Kosovo.

Serbs in Kosovo face genocide said...

Botched Kosovo intervention dims hopes for peace
By Christopher Deliso
Originally published May 10, 2006
SKOPJE, MACEDONIA // Averting a humanitarian catastrophe was NATO's stated justification for bombing Serbia and its Kosovo province in 1999. But initial successes quickly succumbed to the reverse ethnic cleansing of more than 200,000 Serbs and other minorities by Albanian militants.
Now, despite seven years of U.N. policing and donor largess, Kosovo's remaining minorities still live in fear, and the economy and infrastructure remain in shambles.





Behind their fa├žade of optimism, Western leaders negotiating Kosovo's future status are panicking. Realizing that Albanians will violently contest any continued affiliation with Serbia, they believe independence alone can ensure peace. Yet Kosovo is a classic quagmire, one with ominous repercussions for peace.

Deciding Kosovo's rightful ownership is difficult. It pits two peoples, and two hallowed principles, against each another. Albanians - 90 percent of the population - invoke self-determination to justify independence. Yet Serbian cultural legacy goes back seven centuries in Kosovo, which was only independent when Adolf Hitler's Albanian allies briefly enjoyed their Nazi puppet state. Further, U.N. Resolution 1244 in 1999 affirmed Yugoslav sovereignty.

Kosovo's independence will be conditional, promises the West, on its treatment of minorities. Yet nothing can realistically enforce compliance. If the Albanians continue intimidating Serbs, penalizing them by delaying NATO or European Union accession will have little impact; an advanced Balkan candidate, Macedonia, won't enter NATO before 2008, or the EU before 2013.

A well-informed international official predicts remaining Serbs will flee within 10 years of Kosovo's independence. So by the time Kosovo gets anywhere near NATO or EU accession, the minority issue will be moot.

Albanian attacks against Serbs still occur amid an atmosphere of a siege mentality. If the last Serbs are expelled, Belgrade's remaining argument for possession will vanish. Its first argument, for cultural heritage, no longer applies because since 1999, over 100 Orthodox churches, some 700 years old, have been damaged or destroyed by Albanians - thus eliminating Kosovo's most lucrative tourist attractions.

Further, the United Nations dismayed Kosovo's minorities by making a man who once terrorized them prime minister. Albanian war veteran Agim Ceku, whose name was removed from Interpol's wanted list after fierce U.N. lobbying, is accused of widespread atrocities while serving in Croatia's military and while leading the Kosovo Liberation Army in 1999.

Mr. Ceku's close associate and another veteran, Ramush Haradinaj, was indicted by the Hague Tribunal. Nevertheless, Mr. Haradinaj is now free to participate in Kosovo politics though he's technically an indicted war criminal awaiting trial.

Such privileged treatment reveals the fatal flaw of the U.N. mission. Canadian police Detective Stu Kellock, who headed the U.N. Regional Serious Crimes Unit in 2000 and 2001, says investigations implicating Albanian politicians or their associates were routinely blocked. The orders came directly from Washington, London and Brussels. Mr. Ceku and Mr. Haradinaj control Kosovo's militant factions and are considered heroes by Albanians. An anxious United Nations continually has sought to stay on their good side through appeasement.

Independence is a mere panacea for Kosovo's Albanians. They will remain poor. Erstwhile Albanian refugee workers - Kosovo's real breadwinners - will be sent home by European governments sensitive to popular anti-immigrant sentiments. Minorities will flee as nationalist militants remobilize to purge Serbs and annex Albanian-inhabited areas of Macedonia and Montenegro.

Bosnian Serbs, as well as Bosnian Muslims in Serbia's Sandjak region, also could demand self-determination.

Alarmingly, the West has no Plan B for ensuring Balkan peace. Plan A - open borders through eventual NATO and EU membership for all - is far off and ignores the anti-expansion sentiment among EU electorates. Membership may never arrive. The Balkans might well drift aimlessly.

In early 1999, Kosovo was a brutal but contained local conflict, relegated to villages. Botched Western intervention has made it a potential precedent for multiregional warfare.



Christopher Deliso is an American freelance journalist in Macedonia and director of an independent Balkan-interest Web site. His e-mail is cdeliso@balkanalysis.com.




Copyright © 2006, The Baltimore Sun | Get Sun home delivery

Konaction said...

Cetnik,

WOW, man u got masters :)

Albanians all around the world did they job by sending money back home. They've sent enough to fight with you and in the end get our long awaited independence (On what I always have to remind your Masters ass).

US is our source of all sorts of education including military and you may continue your studies all around the world but you aint smart enough!

Did you visit any oftamologist nowadays?

ivan said...

Cvijus,

Konaction is really obsessed with the oftamologist. I wonder what would be the reason. Maybe his wife is ..... nah, I will not go down to their level.

Konaction,

"Albanians all around the world did they job by sending money back home."

the money they earned by selling drugs to the kids, or by slaving women, and making them become prostitutes.

As for education, tell me konaction what degree do you have? ..... oh sorry, this was a stupid question, you are a doctor from the Prishtina University, and I guess your specialization is how to teach children to throw stones at Serbian buses.

Konaction said...

Cetnici,

"Konaction is really obsessed with the oftamologist. I wonder what would be the reason. Maybe his wife is ..... nah, I will not go down to their level."

You serbs have good jokes!

"As for education, tell me konaction what degree do you have? ..... oh sorry, this was a stupid question, you are a doctor from the Prishtina University, and I guess your specialization is how to teach children to throw stones at Serbian buses."

It's good you know that everything you say is stupid. You're improving now that you told me you have masters! :)

Get real lifes guys!

Cvijus011 said...

"WOW, man u got masters :)"

And guess what, I'm admitted for PhD and got additionally a teaching position.

"US is our source of all sorts of education including military and you may continue your studies all around the world but you aint smart enough!"

Given the head you gave them, no wonder. Hell for a good blowjob the Yanks are readdy to give you anything.
A good you reminded me, my cousin is in Harvard along with many Serbs, but extremelly few siptars given the proportion of other nationalities studying in Harvard. I guess the decent Universities for albos in the US is maybe the Sioux Falls County College.

Really Konaction, what degree do you have?

ivan said...

hey Cvijus,

konaction is an oftamologist :p

Konaction said...

Check your nastradamus post some two floors above and you'll find out my degree of education.

You're so clever to study in harward and so stupid to lose Kosovo! Shame on you "smart" people!

Cvijus011 said...

Come on Konaction, what is your degree? Why don't you say it, instead of giving us some instructions of where to find it. Be a man.

Unfortunately wrong people governed our state. But look at you, leave aside Kosovo and take Albania on the focus, it didn't had any wars for the last 60 years and it is still on the level it was during Ottoman times (apart from a couple of bunkers and residential blocks built by Hoxha).

ivan said...

Konaction,

why are you ashamed to tell us whats your education level?

Tell us clearly, dont give us some mysterious pin points.... come on dont be ashamed, after all you are a siptar

Konaction said...

“You cannot punish us for something Milosevic did,” they told him.

Oooh you innocent "clever" serbs!

“But we cannot reward you, either,” Ahtisaari is quoted as replying.

I guess we should ask Ahtisari on level of education he has, cause you guys study in Harward and stuff!

I became Oftamologist in Moscow, my only mission is to open eyes to serbian people, show them the real world!

"But how did they know that the real world isn't just another simulatioN"

Work on it serbs! - You're far away from reality.

Anonymous said...

Cvijus,

Your friend at Harvard must have issues. There are minimum 30 Albanians (from Kosova) that I personally know of at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. Come on know, hate aside, try to be more objective! When you can't win an argument, don't try making up bullshit. Quit with your Serbian inferiority complex instilled for years by Austrians. Remember, that doesn't mean you should ATTEMPT to make others feel that way.

BTW a PhD candidate over here, too.

Cvijus011 said...

anonymous 10:47 AM,

Ok maybe I made a mistake about how many K-albos are in Harvard, but tell me honestly, how many of them were there 5 years ago? Few. And how many Serbs are there 5 years ago and today? Many.

Now as I see you're a fellow schollar, it is very unprofessional from your side to accuse me of having an inferiority complex, made in Austria. Now, if you have interests in history, there is plenty of material written more than 60 years ago about some interesting issues concerning the albanian nationalism (under this literature I don't include Malcolm).

Namely, in the 19th century Serbia was growing even stronger, which alarmed Austria-Hungary having a huge number of Serbs eager to join Serbia. So around 1910 emperor Franz-Josef organized a secret meeting (stenograms of this meeting can be found at the Vienna Archive) with a task to propagate that albanians are Illyrians and carry through that propaganda among the albanian population. Since Serbia was a pain in the ass to A-H, A-H created a pain in the ass to Serbia (divide and rule). The theory of Illyrians was very popular during the rule of Enver Hoxha that dreamed of greater Albania, which followed the prosecution of many eminent albanian intellectuals, such as dr. Kaplan Resuli who spent 37 years in prison, for proving the Illyrian theory wrong.

Now, you will ask me what has that to do with the inferiority complex? Well, Serbs didn't believe in that crap made in Austria, which surely shows that we don't have any inferiority complex. On the other side, albanians liked the Illyrian theory and started forcing histerically the others to believe this, in your own words "that doesn't mean you should ATTEMPT to make others feel that way".

Anonymous said...

Cvijus
How can you say you don't have a complex. Look at your history in the past 15 years only. You started a war with Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosova and are in the rifts with both Macedonia and Hungary and Montenegro is struggling to move away from you. On top of that you got most countries of EU to bomb you, inclusing your allies France and Greece.
That being said I refuse to belive that there is some consiparacy against Serbia as your politicians have made you believe. Afterall what is your strategic importance in the world? Not much really just a landlocked state.
Wake up mate and see that you have caused nothing but pain and suffering to all your neigbhours with your paranoia and delusions. Yet you have failed to recognize this and turned it around by claiming you are the victim. Propaganda can only take you so far.

Anonymous said...

you puke"which followed the prosecution of many eminent albanian intellectuals, such as dr. Kaplan Resuli who spent 37 years in prison, for proving the Illyrian theory wrong."
you only mention one where are the many? I dont know what school you are studing for your phd but if a school kid had your logic he/she should be ashamed of themselves.

Cvijus011 said...

1) The wars that occured in the '90s were a result of bad leadership. However, with Slovenia it was for preserving the SFRJ and respect the Constitution of '74. But tell me, from the initial framework (not regarding the tools) what was the difference between the fight of Serbs in Bosnia and Croatia and you in Kosovo? Note that Serbia and Montenegro (at that time SRJ) were NOT at war with Croatia and Bosnia.

2) Our strategic importance is of geographical nature. Serbia controls the crossroads that connect the Balkans with the rest of Europe and East with West, starting from the Danube and Sava to the E-75 highway. Serbia also contains strategic resources in Kolubara, Lazarevac and Majdanpek. Landlocked countries are not automatically failed countries, take a look on Austria, Czech Republic and Hungary. Btw, with Hungary and Macedonia our problems are not to be compared with those of the '90s.

3) The only ones suffering from the victim paranoia are you, it is thousand times that I heard how albos cry about the great injustice they were living and how tens of thousands of albanians were killed by the evil orthodox graeco-slavs, but when i ask for a source about the 10.000 albos killed from Serbs in the last wars, a good statistical source, I get nothing but insults in a very uncvivilized way, especially from those that claim that they are civilized.

4) Aside from dr. Kaplan Resuli, further prossecuted albanian intellectuals are Vincents Golleti, dr. Adrian Qosi, Fatos Ljubonja, prof. Adrian Vebiu and others. albanians have many worthy intellectuals, but they are prossecuted because they refuse to propagate populist ideas.

"if a school kid had your logic he/she should be ashamed of themselves"

What I have seen last time when I was in Pristina at the local university was not sad but tragic. Besides, a schoolkid of my logic discusses, but apparently albanian schoolkids in Kosovo, their logic is to stone busses with returnees. Well, you're right, schoolkids of logics in Kosovo should be ashamed of theirselves.

Anonymous said...

Cvijus,

I don't see a point in discussing things like Albanian - Illyrian connection when your starting argument is completely wrong. You begin by DENYING the history of Albanians. Until you Serbs realize that it's wrong to deny the true history of others and doing that, shamefully, based on Serb propaganda meant to undermine others, there will be no point in attempting discussions. Put yourself in that position, if I deny everything you are, I wouldn't think you'd want to go further. Moreover, if you knew a little Albanian, the Illyrian-Albanian continuity would be more than common sense, since you'd find clues all around. The Albanian language wasn't CREATED during the times of Austria-Hungary, unless your Serb compatriots taught you that as well and naturally, you believe it. If the Albanian-Illyrian continuity started bothering Serbia during Austro-Hungarian times, it doesn't mean that that is the time it started to exist. Anyway, since, again, you begin this all with no sensible basis, I wont really bother any longer.

Regarding the comment on Albanian students from Kosova at Harvard, Princeton and Yale.. Gee, I wonder why there weren't that many before 1999? No further comment on that.

--Anonymous 10:47 AM

Anonymous said...

Cvijus,
Persecuted Albanian intellectuals during Hoxha time? Sure, include Koqi Xoxe who had plans to incorporate Albania into Yugoslavia with FULL support from Serbia financially. I commend mr. Enver Hoxha for getting rid of such traitors. Ever wonder why Serbs cared so much as to name a street in Ferizaj based on his name? Imagine what plans they had: we'd have Serbs from Durres to Saranda today claiming that Albanians are just immigrants who are asking for too many rights that they don't deserve and are not appreciating the Serb helping hand in letting them go in Albania from God knows where. Pathetic.

Cvijus011 said...

Anonymous 10:47 AM,

Nice argument.
However, I will quote Kaplan Resuli by saying "The Albanian racism towards its neighbours is based on historical falsifications". Think about it. Given that the albanian nationalism was based on territorial expansion, it needed a historical justification in order to have a right on these lands. Austria-Hungary defined your national program, not your language, cause they needed a client state in order to enforce their interests on the Balkans. The Illyrians were the only nation that didn't have any direct descent on the Balkans, thus it appeared as an empty slot for the albanians to fill. The documentation that proves that Illyrians disapeared as an special entity is given by Constantine Porphyrrogenitous. Your language has many similarities with the Illyrian, but so do the Serbian and the rest of the Balkan languages. The Illyrian laguage is of Kentum type, whereas the Albanian Satem type, and all linguists agree that these two types in no way cannot connect with each other. Another issue are the toponyms. Why even in your language the toponyms of Kosovo and partially in northern Albania you are using the names that have a crystal clear Slavic root (Prishtina-Pristina, Djakovica-Djakove, Mitrovica-Mitrove)? Besides, my negations of the Illyrian origins of the albanians doesn't come from Serbia but from a book by the most famous expert on Illyrians John Wilkes "The Illyrians".

As dr. Resuli already said, the theory of the Illyrian origin of albanians allows territorial expansion, but also drives into a conflict with your neighboring nations.

Anonymous said...

"But tell me, from the initial framework (not regarding the tools) what was the difference between the fight of Serbs in Bosnia and Croatia and you in Kosovo? Note that Serbia and Montenegro (at that time SRJ) were NOT at war with Croatia and Bosnia."

So wait it was OK then for Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia to fight those governments- but when Albanians did it to you you refer to them as terrorist. You can't play both sides of the coin. Either the government's were terrorist organizations for suppressing their minorities, or minorities were terrorist for killing the tools of the state. In either case your argument stands to lose with Kosovo situation. So don't bs your way out.
Also as far as serbia not supporting serbs in croatia and Bosnia that is b/s. We all saw what happened in Knin once that support stopped.

Cvijus011 said...

"You can't play both sides of the coin. Either the government's were terrorist"

I'm not the one playing both sides, you are. You justify the Kosovo Albanians but you judge the Serbs in Bosnia and Croatia.

"Either the government's were terrorist organizations for suppressing their minorities"

Franjo Tudjman in his speeches at that time said "I'm glad my wife isn't Jewish nor Serbian" and at the constitution of Croatia deleted the Serbs as the constitutive nation of Croatia (30% of the population). He was also a apologist of the Ustasa regime during WWII. Alija Izetbegovic in his "Islamic manifest" stated that "the Bosnian society has to get rid of all non-Islamic elements".

"Also as far as serbia not supporting serbs in croatia and Bosnia that is b/s. We all saw what happened in Knin once that support stopped."

With such logic we should also accuse Albania in her role during the Kosovo war. Besides, how come after Ceku and other Croat officers returned from their additional education in the US, they managed to take over Knin? Where did the Croat army get from all this US military equipment in such a short time period?

Anonymous said...

Cvijus,

I will stand on linguistic facts alone, as they prove to be enough. Can you show me Serbian similarities to Illyrian?
Dardania - Dardhe/Dardhania
Troja - Troje (Truall sing.)(land)
Priami - Prijesi (leader)
Hyllus - Ylli (star)
Ilir - I Lire etc etc. (a free person)
The names that you mention were created post Illyrian times and Prishtina has absolutely no connection to Serbian, original was Ulpiana. It'd be great if they were changed back to the original names post-independence, which I think will probably happen. BTW what do you think of Nis? (Nish?) Why would it be of Albanian origin?

Furthermore, Serbian is a slavic language related to we know how many others, while the only language that is completely unique (a branch on its own) is the Albanian language. There are many theses trying to undermine a relationship that clearly exists (if you simply connect the dots, obviously with no bias). How would it make sense to greeks, slavs etc to have a population right in the middle of the Balkans that can claim way more than them ?

Regarding Illyrian so-called "territorial claims". They really didn't exist (Albanian nationalism + territorial claims), because if they did you'd have us ask for Slovenia all the way to Greece. We're realistic and want, unfortunately, whatever has been left (ie. where our population has historically lived and deserves self determination). Again we'll go back to "no I was there first, or no I was there first." But what ticks me off is the Serb attempt to completely fabricate the Albanian history (ie. they came to Kosova from Albania and are trying to take it over).

I will give you a link; the work is written by Aleksansar STIPCEVIC. It's definitely worth reading.

http://www.alb-net.com/illyrians.htm

It explains reasons why Serbs refuse to admit the Albanian history.

Arberi_Usa said...

Hey guys we we still talk here afer independence..I want to hear what Serbs have to say about it

ilir said...

I am disgusted at the Cvijus and similar comments. I cannot believe you can be studying for a PhD level and still are so narrowminded. What degree should one like get to get down to earth (not remain a nebeski narod member)? mega-PhD? You have a very very black view of all Albanians,no wonder you even support those that once thought Albanians have even tails (i.e. are not real humans). Shame on your titles you are getting. regards,

Cvijus011 said...

ilir,

I suppose that narrowmindness by albanian definition is to reject the Illyrian theory of the albanian origin. On the other hand, accepting that theory you're concidered a high intellectual, by albanian definition.
You should blame the German eductaional system for teaching me to have a critical approach on everything, and by now nothing could pursuade me that albanians are Illyrians. And trust, I always tried to avoid Serbian authors in my research and I used international authorities on the Illyrian question such as John Wilkes, Eric Hamp, Vladimir Georgiev, Constantine Jirecek, etc.

anonymous 2:49 PM,

All those terms that you mention mean the same in ancient Greek. You should admit that ancient Greek is older than the Illyrian language.
Ulpiana was the ROMAN name of Pristina, cause it was founded in Roman times as a garnison. Nis first name was Naissus, derived from the greek Naissos, the early Greek colony. Nis is also mentioned under the name Nysa in the Greek Mythology where god Dionyssus was raised.

The Illyrians were an ethnic group (something as the Slavs are today) and hence consisted of different sub-groups. When the Austrians were constituting your nationalist program as it is today, they limited you to the territories inhabited in antiquity by the Illyrian tribe Albanoi. You don't think they would endanger their own territories for the sake of you? Besides, how come you in your own language you call yourselves Shqiptars instead of albanians? And you were you called Arnauts just until the start of the 20th century?
Now, the greatest authority about Illyrians, John WIlkes, stated that this ending in Shqiptar -AR is typical for Ural-Altaic nations such as BulgAR, TatAR, KhazAR, MagyAR, HungAR, etc. This also relates to the toponyms and other names in the Caucasus, I'll give you some examples:

Bushati(Albanian) - Bushati (Caucasian)
Baboti - Baboti
Bashkimi - Bashkimoi
Gegh - Gegi
Sheshani - Shashani
Shkoder - Shkeder

About the uniquity of the albanian language, Jirecek and Hamp give very good explanations about it. I recomend you as one schollar to another to read them.

Anonymous said...

Here is a little taste of serb manipulation of Albanian history:


It is enough to recall an entertaining incident in this campaign which took place in Zagreb in 1982. Two years previously, in 1980, the first volume of the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia (Secon Edition) had been published, in which there were two entries, one entitled "Albanci" (Albanians), and the other "Albansko-Jugoslavenski odnosi" (Albanian-Yugoslavian relations). On pages 75-79, the Albanian historian from Kosova, Ali Hadri, had written the part of the entry under "Albanci" that dealt with "the origin and development of the Albanian people," in which he stated that the Albanians are the descendants of the Illyrians. The linguist Idriz Ajeti said the same, considering the Albanian language a successor to the Illyrian tongue.

When this volume had come off the press, the Albanian revolt in Kosova had broken aut, and when the Serbian edition of this same book was under preparation, the Serbian representatives on the Encyclopaedia’s central editorial board rejected the text that had already been published in the Croat edition (which they themselves had approved), and insisted that the two entries should be reformulated according to the ideas of Serbian historians. A long and bitter debate then took place within the editorial board, and was soon reflected in the Zagreb and Belgrade newspapers.(11) Ten contributions from historians and archaeologist were commissioned in order to prepare new versions of these entries.

At that time, the Serbian members of the editorial board could not impose their ideas on others. This meant that the new version that was printed in subsequent editions of the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia included textual changes in the sections dealing all mention of the continuity between the Illyrians and Albanians.(12)

Although unable to change what had already been published in the Croat edition, the publisher of the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia printed the new versions of the two entries and sent them to subscribers, requesting them to insert them in the appropriate place.

Talk about a propaganda driven people. Just like D. Cosic says -they lie about everything and then convice themselves and others that these are truths...

Cvijus011 said...

it looks to me more that albanians are trying to reverse history and oppsessively convice the others that only albanians are right.

And on what basis have Ali Hadri and Idriz Ajeti came to their conclusions. Just by stating that "albanians are the direct descedants of the Illyrians" is not a good enough evidence for me.

As i said above, I don't use Serbian authors in my research, only international.

Anonymous said...

Yes and I can get another dozen international historians who says that Albanians come from Illyrians. That was not my point in the article above. The point was to show how sebs manipulate things in order to politicize them as a way to serve their long term territorial aspiration.

Cvijus011 said...

Then get them

But you forget that albanians were also politicizing it. Why would Enver Hoxha prosecute so oppsesivelly albanian intellectuals that were opposing the idea of the Illyrian origin?

NYoutlawyer said...

Fuck illyrians, what was so great about those pricks anyway? Just another bunch of Greek Empire wannabees.

My post is to tell you that I am optimistic about kosovo's independence not happening.

With the latest run-in albania had with China, not a smart move, but they are albanian, and with Russia a sane critic in this whole matter, I am OPTIMISTIC!

How in the world can the corrupt UN be allowed to grant independence to an autonomy governed by criminals?

Please read the following, you will have to agree with me, if you have a brain and are not albanian blind-biased:

The Washington Times, May 9

Kosovo consternation
The Washington Times
By James "Ace" Lyons Jr.

Tuesday, 9 May 2006
Among the most important priorities of U.S. global policy is combating the international traffic in drugs and in persons (often a euphemism for women and children forced into prostitution).

Because of the linkage and overlap among terrorist networks and organized criminal gangs, the battle against trafficking is also an integral part of the war on terror.

Fighting organized criminal activities is difficult even in countries with a functioning legal system, honest police and the rule of law. Think how much harder that would be when dealing with an independent country where the authorities are an integral part of the criminal enterprise.

Amazingly, that's what the international community seems to want to help establish in the Serbian province of Kosovo. When Kosovo was placed under United Nations administration and NATO military control at the end of the 1999 war, some hoped the province soon would meet at least minimum qualifications for some kind of independence, as demanded by Muslim Albanians who greatly outnumber the remaining Christian Serbs.

That hasn't happened. Instead the drug, sex slave, weapons, money-laundering, and other illicit trades that helped fuel the conflicts of the 1990s have continued to grow. Just this month Marek Antoni Nowicki, Poland's leading human-rights lawyer and the U.N.'s international ombudsman for Kosovo until last year, denounced the "real criminal state in power" in Kosovo, working right under the nose of the U.N. and NATO. "Crime groups have been able to operate with impunity," said Mr. Nowicki. "These networks can rely on the weakness of the public institutions to sanction their operations." Mr. Nowicki's charges came on the heels of a March 2006 report by the U.N.'s internal watchdog agency, the Office of Internal Oversight, which found the head of U.N. Mission -- who holds virtually dictatorial powers -- derelict for ignoring fraud and other abuses at the airport in Kosovo's capital, Pristina.

None of this should come as any surprise. Even in 1999, when the Clinton administration decided to take military action in support of the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), there were numerous and credible intelligence and news reports of the KLA's criminal and terrorist inclinations. Predictably, KLA veterans found even more opportunity to ply their illicit trades when, ostensibly demobilized, they were recruited by the UN into Kosovo's police, civil administration, and quasi-military "Kosovo Protection Corps." The foxes were asked to guard the chicken coop -- another U.N. fiasco.

As described in reports issued by the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, criminal activity in Kosovo continues to be closely tied to operations of the Albanian mafia across Europe, from home bases in Kosovo and adjacent areas of Albania and Macedonia. For example (from 2003): "According to the International Organization for Migration and EUROPOL, the principal supplier countries [i.e., for trafficked women] today are Moldova (up to 80 percent: many Moldovan villages do not have any more women), Bulgaria, Romania and Ukraine. The networks used various routes, including the route that passes through Kosovo, Albania, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (see the village of Veledze, the regional centre of prostitution) and Montenegro, then through Italy. The Albanian mafia has set up a real cartel on prostitution. It handles more than 65 percent of the trafficking in women in the Balkans." From 2004: "In Kosovo, as many as 80 percent of internally trafficked victims are children."

The response of international bureaucrats to this disgrace is predictable: ignore it and hope nobody notices. Or even better, pretend all is going well, declare the mission a success -- and hand power over to the criminals as the new sovereign "government."

If that happens, even the minimal interference in the Kosovo-based gangs' operations will be removed. A criminal state not seen since the defunct Taliban regime in Afghanistan will be set up with easy proximity to the rest of Europe.

Such an outcome would make a mockery of some of the United States' most important global security priorities. While the international community desires some sort of "closure" to the ongoing mess in Kosovo (and this is understandable), it is hard to think of a supposed solution worse than independence. Seven years after the 1999 war, this is one Clinton legacy that demands urgent reconsideration.
-----------------------------------

James "Ace" Lyons Jr. is a retired admiral in the U.S. Navy. He is a former commander-in-chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet (the largest single military command in the world), senior U.S. military representative to the United Nations and as deputy chief of Naval operations and was principal adviser on all Joint Chiefs of Staff matters.

Anonymous said...

Albanski friends si jeni mir?, I'm a Croat and i just wanna say how proud we are of Agim Ceku who become a PM of Kosovo he is a true warrior and loved by all Croats! Ignore filthy cetnikes, Ustasa gave them some kick in the ass and they still cry today like cigani ppl (you look like cigani to, dark non-european) shame on you cetnikes who call serbia for democratic, you started all the wars u ubojica dont play like tough guys behind your computer we know how brave your where when you meet hrvatska armija, why dont you start shit with us about Krajina?

"God i enjoid every minute when Serbia got bombed by Nato"

Last but not least to cetnikes - idi u picku materinu, jebo ti pas mater =)

Hrvatski patriot!

Anonymous said...

hrvatski patriot said:

>>Last but not least to cetnikes - idi u picku materinu, jebo ti pas mater =) <<

dragi ustasice,
sta se desilo sa tudjmanovim divnim novohrvatskim, kad moras da psujes na srpskom? :P

Truth Hurts said...

LOL Kosovo will never be independent you uneducated Albanians. I will tell you why! First the Serbs will never let that happen. Second the Americans and the rest of Europe won't let that happen, why? Simple if a majority of people over populate a country and then try to make it independent like in Kosovo. All countries in the world will see this as an example and try to do the same thing. You think the rest of the world wants that, i don't think so. Look in the US how the mexicans are trying to do the same as the Shiptars are. If Bush lets this happen in Kosovo, then the Mexicans will take back California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. Now use what little brain you have in your head and think about that!

Agim Ceku is a known KLA war criminal and is a puppet for the US for the time being. When they are done getting what they want he goes to jail like Saddam Hussein.

Oh by the way you read the article about what China had to say about Kosovo and its independence. Simple they said they will help Serbia protect their soverignty over Kosovo in the way of anything they need. I think if i'm not mistaken China said they will send soldiers. Funny how they have veto power like Russia. Oh no now your going to say why didn't they veto the bombings to beggin with.

Answer to that was that Yeltsin was the Russian President and a bit too drunk to know what was going on and getting paid to keep quite. Also you notice how you don't hear anything about Chechnya in the paper anymore. Its called Putin had enough of the US and their bullshit. Also Putin has made it very clear that if Serbia is attacked this time he will send soldiers and declare war on any countries that attack it, as their allies China have said. You know what that means?

Means there will be another war soon in the Balkans, and this time the outcome will be alot different without US and NATO interference. Its called PAY BACK !!!!!!!!!

une said...

you guys say whatever you want but the kosova is going to get it's independence no matter what you guys say. amerika is supporting it.
the whole world knows whose the bad guys and the good guys between Albanians and Serbians.
another fact is that Kosova has high percentage of new born babies and that is a bad is bad sign for Serbians, either they like it or not. i don't want to go and talk about history because we just can not get an agreement. i would suggest all you guys Albanian and Serbians should read the book "Short History" by Noel Malcolm. i think it is time to stop all this hatred between us because after all we are neighbors, either we like it or not. and i also call those blogers with "masters" degree that comment in this site, to be more tolerant on issues and see both aspects pro and con.