Monday, May 15, 2006

Montenegro prepares for secession

Nicholas Wood

With days to go before a referendum that will determine the future of the tiny Balkan republic of Montenegro, Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic declared Monday that separation from Serbia was "unstoppable."
For almost nine years, Djukanovic, the Balkans' longest-serving leader, has promised to withdraw Montenegro from its federal union with Serbia, leaving Belgrade without a partner in what remains of the former Yugoslavia.
On Sunday, Montenegro's 440,000 voters will be given the first opportunity to express their views and polls have suggested a small majority favor separation. Under terms negotiated by the European Union, Djukanovic and his supporters need to obtain at least 55 percent of the vote to secede, so a bare majority will not be enough.
Djukanovic said in an interview Monday that Montengro's ties with Serbia were doomed even if he and his supporters failed to get 55 percent of the vote. If the vote to secede gets any kind of majority, he said he would have little choice but to distance Montenegro further from Serbia. "Our position would be that a democratic majority has delegitimized the existing union."
How Montenegro deals with its relationship with Serbia is seen as crucial to the stability of the region, which has yet to overcome the conflicts of the 1990s that killed 200,000 people. Diplomats worry that any attempt by Montenegro to declare independence unilaterally could provoke the region's Serbian minority, about 30 percent of Montenegro's population of 650,000.
The European Union's chief envoy to the region, Miroslav Lajcak, has made it clear that both Serbia and Montenegro would be expected to retain their ties and to negotiate for membership in the EU together were the yes vote to fall short of the required 55 percent.
Speaking last week to an economic forum in Belgrade, Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica of Serbia said the federation would remain intact as long the 55 percent threshold was not reached. "The European Union clearly said there is no gray area and that any result below 55 percent absolutely means that the joint state is preserved, by the will of the people," he said, Reuters reported.
Djukanovic said his government would not take any action unilaterally if it failed to meet the EU's requirements, but he also said the Constitution uniting Serbia and Montenegro would have to be changed if a majority favored independence. "It is clear we would have to embark on new negotiations with Serbia," he said.
But he added: "It is clear that any agreement we might make would be just an interim agreement toward final independence. I think this process is unstoppable. I compared this a few days ago to a river that is so strong that it cannot dry up."
The federation between Serbia and Montenegro is limited. They share control of an army and a diplomatic service. But both have separate customs and border police services, as well as separate republican governments.
For several years the European Union has resisted Montenegro's moves to break away from Serbia, worrying that such a move could destabilize the rest of the Balkans - most notably Kosovo, where ethnic Albanians also are demanding independence from Serbia.
In 2003, the European Union's foreign policy envoy, Javier Solana, negotiated a new Constitution between the two states and said a referendum should be permitted after three years.
Now that negotiations on the future of Kosovo are under way that could lead to its separation from Serbia, some diplomats say it is much harder to argue that Montenegro should not be granted independence.

33 comments:

ilir said...

I am very curious to see the outcome of the referendum. At the same time I wish Montenegro to gain independence from this artificial and dysfunctional federation it is tied to. That is the only way it will prosper. So will Kosova, once its independence is formally recognized.

NYoutlawyer said...

I am Montenegran but, these fucking cigarette-smuggling peasant fools have no idea what they are asking for. They want independence for what? More uncontrolled smuggling?

Actually, I hope they get their independence, they will soon be swallowed up by "Greater Albania's" expansion vision that much sooner.

Sometimes, you get what you ask for.

NYoutlawyer said...

BTW, fuck albanian kosovo independence, and ALL albanians actually!

I will eat some pork chops in your honor tonight.

Jebi te se siptarska govna!

ilir said...

seems like the explicit language you guys are used to, will not be stopped by having user accounts. If there is smuggling, I am sure the Federation with Serbia is not helping there. Greater Albania idea is a fabrication of Serbian nationalism, and there is no indication that is to happen, nyoutlawyer. Eat whatever you wish, but try to control your language. It shows your civility.

Kristian said...

Ny.....


Make sure they're seasoned well! And don't chew on the bone the dogs might get jealous :)

Oh I thought you were serbian? change of heart there!

Peace to all and leave the swine alone.

pepaj said...

Nyoutlawyer,

You are a prime example of the primitive characteristics that the typical Serb exhibited throughout your short existence in the Balkans (esp. the 1990s) and still continues to do so today.

Albanians living in foreign cities inhabited by an Albanian majority (Ulqin, Shkup, etc.) have no aspirations for a so called Greater Albania. Instead, they have aspirations to join a free Europe and live in peace and stability. Under the Serb, this dream was impossible. It is only natural if in the beginning of their statehoods, the two new independent nations struggle to make ends meet. One cannot expect a child to walk before crawling.

Sacred Dardanicum said...

Ej ti ,NYoutlawyer ,majmune koji zivis u Nju Jorku (izvini zato sto nisam te zvao pravo zver) u koja doba ziviz majku ti jebem

The time when Serbians were thinking that there is no other nations as good as them is gone long time ago so open your eyes and to insult us because i know also to insult you mother fucker. No single identity you don't have.

Few years later we are going to make a ADN test among the Serbians and the result will show that only 30% of them are with Slavic origin all others are assimilated starting from Illyrians, Thracian, Dacians, and also some Roman people and maybe also some Goths and Visigoths. So shut up with Belgrad's Pashalak.

Dardania 2006 said...

Good luck Montenegro.

We will follow you soon and free to enter Europe

ivan said...

O siptari,

there is a big difference between the Montenegro independance and your so called independance.

Montenegrins never ethnically clensed Serbs!

If Montenegro's people wish to be indpendent, then i salute them, because i also dont believe that this federation is functional.However rules must be respected, and that is they can only become independant if more than 55% of the voting population votes so. What i find disturbing is that Djukanovic and company are stating that if the outcome is not so, they will still fight for independance.

Now you will ask me, so why are you against Kosovo independance. ITs very simple. Kosovo is part of Serbia, while Montenegro wanst. Siptars in Kosovo have conducted ethnic clensing against non albanians, and the minorities are not safe at all even though you have about 20,000 intenrnational police men over there. And lastly, Serbs in Kosovo and Metohija, do not want to be ruled by Prishitna, the same way as you siptars dont want to be ruled by Belgrade.

Dardania 2006 said...

According to Serb history there are no Albanians so how come now you bring us in the picture?

Ivan, my advice to you is, stop torturing yourself and take up some hobbies like hiking.

Start doing something with your life, don't follow in the footsteps of Milosevic.

heku said...

You serbs are still in your illusions, just keep on going that way. It's good for us to have stupid ennemies, no need to think a lot how to beat them.

The language used by some of your representatives shows your low education and your low IQ...

Just keep on reading (and possibly not books from the serb academy or salve "intellectuals" or even american lobbyised low thinkers), maybe one day we will make an effort to explain to you what democracy, tolerance and human rights are...

ivan said...

GRENADE HITS SUPERMARKET IN KOSOVO TOWN
16.5.2006 12:52 KOSOVSKA MITROVICA, (Tanjug) - UNMIK police spokesman Larry Miller said Tuesday that a grenade hit about 3 am a supermarket owned by Tihomir Belosevic in the center of Leposavic.

heku said:

"...maybe one day we will make an effort to explain to you what democracy, tolerance and human rights are... "

So much for the Siptar meaning of human rights.

"Dardania 2006 said...
According to Serb history there are no Albanians so how come now you bring us in the picture?"

Apparently you have been reaqding the siptar version of the serbian history. with you guys its very simple, every single serb is a source of evil, and every single siptar is an angel, thats unable to hurt a fly. So the message of you logic is, kill as many serbs as possible because thats how you will defeat evil in the world. Serbian children and elderly, are easy points so start of with them.

Kristian said...

To: Ivana


Your logic about the elderly and kids goes goes both ways. Now since the tides have changed and albanians are in power you complain.

When you were in power: serbs and the military, paramilitary, and special forces, etc... they were determining the rules, (NOT BY THE LAW BUT ON THEIR OWN INDIVIDUALISTIC MANNER). They committied the same. Except they did it for over 20yrs since the 1980 student/miner protests. How come you and other serbs didn't protest against the abuse of human rights back then? Let me guess it was bc of Milosevic you couldn't do so!

So democracy works slow and as it does in serbia. Not much of a difference on either side.

heku said...

Exactly and can we say that Belgium is a racist place because a person decided to kill all the aliens there???

Certainly not...

ivan said...

Dardania,

"Your logic about the elderly and kids goes goes both ways. Now since the tides have changed and albanians are in power you complain. "

Sure, I agree. We will be complaining all the time, just the way you have been complaining as well. But agree with me on this that what heku is wirtting about Serbia learning what human rights means,applies more to siptar government than to Serbia.

Heku,

"Exactly and can we say that Belgium is a racist place because a person decided to kill all the aliens there???"

I hope you mean "allien "a s foreignors. you mean the incident that happened in Antwerp? If that is the case, my answer to you is this was one incident in more than 10 years. Foreignors in Belgium have a total freedom of movement and all other rights a regular human beign has. How many terrorist attacks have been conducted against serbs in the last 7 years? What about in the last week ? What happened on March 2004? How many Serbs are imprisoned in enclaves in Kosovo, and the only way they survive is by having weekly trips to North Mitrovica in order to buy basic supplies. And even when they go to N. Mitrovica, their buses are stoned. If siptar society is not racist, then why do those people not go to Pristina, since its much closer?

If you mean aliens as in UFO, then I have no comment, and talking about human rights with you is like teaching a dog mathematics.

Bg anon said...

Well as a concept I am against so called 'Balkanisation'. Or more precisely the creation of yet more and more, yet smaller and smaller, yet more nationalism, yet more national hero's, yet more changing of street names, yet another new currency, yet another flag, yet more 'national identity', yet more or new national anthems, yet more artificial divisions between mankind ....and yet the same political leaders.

But having said that I respect the right of the majority to decide.

Kristian the difference on either side is that what some Serbs did lies in the past and what some Albanians are doing is happening today.

So, I cant concur with your emphasis of only making comments to haul up Serbian participants here. If the Albanian participants were being more open about what is going on in Kosovo today I might understand more but that isnt the case.

And, yes this is coming from somebody who has had a fair number of arguments with Serbs in the 1990'a.

Kristian the assumption of many Albanians is to use the word Serbian for anything negative, even after its been made clear that the 'bad guy' is Montenegrian or Croatian (ie Frenki Simatovic) and many others.

nyoutlawyer has said on many occasions that he is montenegrian.

mitrovica pika pika said...

"Kristian the difference on either side is that what some Serbs did lies in the past and what some Albanians are doing is happening today."

Interesting how serbs seem to blame albanians for the things that happend in the WWII but we one the other must not balme them about the things that happened 6 years ago. Notice the " some serbs did" argument .Convinient isnt it.

ivan said...

mitrovica picka picka

you still haven't answered the 2 questions.

To refresh your memory:

1) What are the skulls on your flag for?

2) What are ther swords on your flag for?

mitrovica pika pika said...

Serb legacy
Concetration camps - In bosnia and Kosova
Mass rapes, massmurder. Nato bombed them twice to stop their carnage. And now even Montenegro doesnt want to be associated with these sick fucks.

ivan said...

mitrovica picka picka

I dont know what you are talking about, and how your serb legacy fits into the two questions.

To refresh your memory:

1) What are the skulls on your flag for?

2) What are ther swords on your flag for?

Bg anon said...

I thought this might be use for this topic:


IFIMES: 51.7 per cent support independence | 11:54 May 16 | Beta

LJUBLJANA -- According to a survey conducted by IFIMES, 51.7 per cent of Montenegrin voters will vote for independence.

The survey reports that 44 per cent of Montenegrins would vote against independence and that 87 per cent of registered voters intend to participate in the elections.

This result of 51.7 per cent however, would bring the success of the referendum into question, since 55 per cent of participating voters must support the referendum in order for it to pass.

The research done by IFIMES over the phone with 1,000 voters, shows that results could vary if tricks and illegal tactics are used during the voting process by either side. IFIMES claims that both political sides have prepared falsified voter lists and are both preparing various supporters to participate in illegal activities in order to influence the outcome of the vote.

In addition, a great “import” of Montenegrin citizens is scheduled to take place. Montenegrin citizens living in the Diaspora are expected to participate in large numbers and Montenegrins living in Serbia will have free bus transportation to Montenegro in order to take care of their voting duties.

All these activities could have great effects on the results of the referendum because there are only about 480,000 registered voters living in Montenegro, IFIMES stated.

Bg anon said...

Its quite funny seeing the tactics both sides are employing on this issue.

The first shot was fired by Serbian raliways who are providing free transport to Montenegrians who want to vote. Their counterparts in Montenegro responded by saying they will charge all those travelling to Mg on the border to continue their journeys.

Then Montenegro Airlines (batting for Milo Djukanovic) announced it was suspending flights during the referendum 'for technical reasons'.

JAT (supporting the state union) then responded by saying if necessary they will lay on extra flights during the referendum.

Watching this from Belgrade would be quite amusing if it were not so tragic. I look at Milo and think crook, guy who supported the bombardment of Dubrovnik, former close friend of Milosevic. Then I look at that Bulatovic and think, SPS loyalist, Milosevic etc.

The only exception is probably the most popular Mg today Medojevic. But he stands of accused as being too close to the internationals and NGO's. But he supports the state union.

With the exception of Medojevic neither side has much credibility.

I think that Serbia should have a referedum on whether it should remain in the state union. I dont see why men such as the above should decide what kind of country Im living in.

Isnt it about time that Serbians took matters into their own hands?

Mir said...

"Serb legacy
Concetration camps - In bosnia and Kosova
Mass rapes, massmurder. Nato bombed them twice to stop their carnage. And now even Montenegro doesnt want to be associated with these sick fucks."

Mass rape, proof?
Mass murder? Understandable.
NATO bombing in 1999? Illegal.

Thank god the angelic Albanaians are here to fight us, the evil Serbs.

Mir said...

"Well as a concept I am against so called 'Balkanisation'. Or more precisely the creation of yet more and more, yet smaller and smaller, yet more nationalism, yet more national hero's, yet more changing of street names, yet another new currency, yet another flag, yet more 'national identity', yet more or new national anthems, yet more artificial divisions between mankind ....and yet the same political leaders."

Its a smart foreign policy by the US because they know what would happen if the Balkans were united :p.

Kristian said...

To: bg....



Kristian the difference on either side is that what some Serbs did lies in the past and what some Albanians are doing is happening today.

In theory the whole region should be already democratic and the law should be upheld and ppl should be getting along. Reality says otherwise.

You're right that Albanians are doing things currently that are not RIGHT! And I agree on this manner!

Some examples used: Buses being stoned! Mostly by kids or teenagers. You mean to tell me that your going to generalize the whole Alb. population as being stonethrowers and serb haters? Not logical at all. (directed towards IVANA)

The 2 serbs shot at the gas station! Very tragic. No one knows for sure who shot them. Anyone could of shot them. How do we know that it wasn't gang or "MAFIA" related! We all know that both sides are knee deep in that line of business.

Does it mean that albanians are out to get serbs? NOT AT ALL! It could of been a serb or an albanian, no one knows for sure but serbs will automatically jump to the conclusion it was an albanian. Neither side can't afford to think that way. INNOCENT TILL PROVEN GUILTY! Its something neither side uses in their reasoning, but are immediately blinded by emotion.

We take a small incident and blow it out of proportion.




So, I cant concur with your emphasis of only making comments to haul up Serbian participants here. If the Albanian participants were being more open about what is going on in Kosovo today I might understand more but that isnt the case.

And, yes this is coming from somebody who has had a fair number of arguments with Serbs in the 1990'a.

Kristian the assumption of many Albanians is to use the word Serbian for anything negative, even after its been made clear that the 'bad guy' is Montenegrian or Croatian (ie Frenki Simatovic) and many others.


The reason why albanians will use the word "serbian" or associate it with negativity is bc they have been oppressed by the communist regime, then the Milosevic regime. Those idividuals giving orders were mostly always serbs and the orders came from BELGRADE. Not just what happened during the war. Go back further. You always dislike the person cracking the whip, it so happened that that person was a serb.

Also factor in the economic situation. If the unemployment rate was, lets say, 15%, you think ppl would act as they do now. No bc they wouldn't have time to react bc they would be working. Right now ppl have too much time on their hands and any bit of gossip that flies by can fuel an outbreak of something.

Most ppl are not looking at things on a grand scale. Everyone is near sighted on both sides. Take a tiny pebble and blow it up as big as the moon. This is what both sides do constantly here on this blog and on a political level.

And the insults only add fuel to the fire. Both are guily here on this blog.

Bg.. you're in Belgrade its easy for you to say to someone that lives in Kosovo/a you should stop this or that when a person lost a kid, wife, mom, dad, brother, etc... That takes time. B&H is perfect example. All of you are slavic brothers in that republic but none of you want to live with each other. Now you expect albanians to act differently then you fellow slavic brothes?

All I pray for is ppl like you to teach others that its better to get along then to fight and hate each other.



Your the only person besides Mir here that actually looks for closure and a drive to move forward.

Peace my friend and to all!

mitrovica pika pika said...

"Mass rape, proof?
Mass murder? Understandable.
NATO bombing in 1999? Illegal.

Thank god the angelic Albanaians are here to fight us, the evil Serbs."

Indeed!

ivan said...

kristian,

"INNOCENT TILL PROVEN GUILTY! Its something neither side uses in their reasoning, but are immediately blinded by emotion."

I agree to that, but then Milosevic is also innocent, as well as Ratko Mladic. Or should we maybe use the logic, GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT? thats the logic unfortinatelly that is present in Balkans.

"Some examples used: Buses being stoned! Mostly by kids or teenagers. You mean to tell me that your going to generalize the whole Alb. population as being stonethrowers and serb haters? Not logical at all. (directed towards IVANA)"

I will answer this to you with an example. As a student in Germany I worked in a restaurant as a waiter. A new cook came and he was Kosovo albanian, and to make the story short, as soon as he found out that I am a Serb he refused to have any form of contact with me, even when it was work related. There were other albanians in the restaurant with whom i had a really good relationship, and they all told me that he is an "asshole".

At that time i believed that he was the rare case, because I had a lot of albanian friends( albanians from albania). One of them regarding the Kosovo conflict told me that Kosovo albanians are very specific, and not even they like kosovo albanians. As for the term siptars, they never got insulted, as a matter of fact they replied to me as "srbine".

That was at the time when NATO was bombarding Serbia and hosetly I thought that its ok if you get Kosovo, since I thought albanians are as honorable people as my friends back in Germany. However we all saw what happened. We all saw what your Kosovo albanians did to Serbs when Serbs were defencless, and that Kosvo albanian cook cept on reappearing in my head. Later on I met another Kosovo albanian, who was actually hitting on my Bulgarian female friends. HE chose to speak Serbian, because like that he would have a better chance to get laid :) I asked him if it is possible for two people to live together and this was his reply "The only reason why I am speaking Serbian and with you, is so I can get laid tonight. Serbs dont belong in Kosova".

As a final stand, I came to this blog. If you read my first psots ( November , December 2005) you will see that I came more with a peaceful stand. Immediately, I was accused as being a rapist, baby eater, etc.

My opinion at the moment is very mixed. I know albanian positive cultura heritage, and I do extremely respect them. Hoever as my albanian friend said, there is a big difference between albanians from maniland, and kosovo albanians. I have been in Serbia through out all of the wars, and I have never experienced so much hate as I do from the Kosovo albanian side. I do hope that the people like that cook, or the horny guy in the club, or Mitrovica or Konaction are a minority in the Kosovo albanian society. However given all the violance that has occured in Kosovo and Metohija against the non albanians, I doubt that this is the case.

It is apparent that the two people will not be able to live side by side for a long time, and honestly I dont understand why albanians are so much against the division of Kosovo and Metohija. In this way Serbia will feel like a winner, and also you will be a winner for gaining the independance. Also you will be free of Serbs, and apparently for a lot of albanians that is the dream to come true.

Pomoz Bog,

Ivan

heku said...

I heard once my political science professeur Victor-Yves Ghebbali talking about Kosovo/Dardania and you know how he made the story as short as possible?

He told us that he had a little chat with a pope (or honestly I don't know how to say it in English and don't be hurt). He asked about Human Rights in Kosovo and the guy replied

"You know, what is most important in Kosovo is not human right but soul right"

Think about it and then sign again your messages with Pomoz Bog...

ivan said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ivan said...

Heku,

please explain to me what soul rights am I violating by signing as

POMOZ BOG?

See thats the problem, to you given that I am a serb, I should not have any rights as a human being , and especially as a person with a soul.

POMOZ BOG, and I hope that God takes the hatred from your heart.

Ivan

Bg anon said...

Kristian

I think differences between races are largely irrlevant so in reality dont think that 2 slavs might be any closer than a Chinese and an African.

I dont buy into national theory because I know the meaning of friendship and this transcends ethnic boundaries.

I have to say that this talk that Albanians (or Croats or Serbs, or slovenes) were repressed by the Communists is propoganda. This rewriting of history, now not only to claim that the Serbs were always the bad guys but that Yugoslavia was also too an evil entity designed to keep the Albanians down is pure rubbish.

Why is it rubbish? Because we were all repressed by the Communists - unless we were members of the communist party within our Republic or region, in which case we got particularly rich. We also all benefitted from SFRJ. But its become politically incorrect to say that so now its better to refer to the usual tired ethnic argument - 'Our .... was repressed by Yugoslavia'. And quite often the people who say this today were Communists and benefitted most from Yugoslavia!

As for Serbian leaders such as the Montenegrian Milosevic, the Croat Stanisic or the Hungarian Kertes or Croatian 'Frenkis boys' Simatovic. This is just a handfull - I can give you a much more extensive list of names you have heard of in senior positions who were not Serbs. Those giving orders were not mostly always Serbs. This is ignorance on the part of those who dont know the subject. And to be quite frank I dont know what the point of talking about something if the people doing the talking havent researched the topic.

But its a moot point really that doesnt prove so much. I just dont like generalising, innacuracy and stupidity.

But your point about Kosovo today and small scale incidents is the tip of the iceberg.

Dont you find the fact that non Albanians dont feel free to move about Kosovo offensive?

Dont you find it offensive that I cant get Mitrovica (for example, but please any Albanian help me out here) to condemn the setting on fire and destruction of the Roma Mahala in Mitrovica - the largest gypsy settlement in Europe.

Dont you think its wrong that those non Albanians who have been ethnically cleansed dont feel safe to return?

Dont you wonder why they think its not safe when you read comments here and other places about how those who dont return are war criminals and those that do are suspected of being war criminals - on account of their ethnic group?

I said it some weeks back that its easy for me to judge for the safety of Belgrade. Of course it is but I would hope that somebody would let me know and point it out to me if I started to support ethnic cleansing, if I became racist, if I taught my children that it was ok to throw stones at certain ethnic groups.

Perhaps in another part of this blog you saw me trying to get Guglji and Ivan to leave Mitrovica alone when they were calling him names? OK they wouldnt listen and Mitrovica decided he wanted to paint me as a bad guy too (I am in his eyes an evil Serb after all).

Point is this its best to keep your own house in order so at least Im making an effort and being consistent. I truly hope that one or two more Albanians can do the same and make some of the others see sense. Im not talking about the abuse on this point but about the exaggerations and innacuracies.

I see as Im about to post this you have a post from Ivan. You see variety of opinion in the 'Serb' camp.

NYoutlawyer said...

Ivan, don't pay any attention to what a scumbag albanian like heku says, who gives a shit? People like him are bottom feeders that see a bit of glory in the dream of an independent muslim kosovo, it isn't going to happen.

Let the SHITpar pricks have their jollies on this blog, it is the only enjoyment they will know.

NYoutlawyer said...

kosovo will never join the EU or NATO. If they, God fordid, get an independent muslim state in Europe, they will surely persecute minorities, and that will not sit well with the EU. I guess you will be forced to lick Serbian asses again. But admit it, you enjoy that. Your grandfathers and grandmothers did.

E siptare, ajde da mi ocistis VC.