This is a topic about the mourning of the Kosova's president.But there is a yugoslut in here that wants to know about the illyrian origins of Albanians.Almost every week one of this dickheads shows up acting all smart asking about facts about our origins.Once again I am going to give you the facts why you serbs cannot accept the illyrian origins of Albanians.It comes from a slavic historian.You then show me that you slavic people were natives of the Balkans,were you are claiming the land.
THE QUESTION OF ILLYRIAN-ALBANIAN CONTINUITY AND ITS POLITICAL TOPICALITY TODAY
Dr.Alexander STIPCEVIC
The question has for years been obscured by political arguments that have frequently prevailed over academic ones. Of course, this is not the first such case in history. On the contrary, it is enough to recall the way in which Italian archaeologists at the time of fascism attempted to justify Mussolini’s conquests in the Mediterranean basin, how the Greeks today exploit data for the sake of their plans to annex Northern Epirus, and how the Serbs claim that any place where Serbian monuments or graves are found must belong to the Serbian state.
There is no need to recall other similar cases, for those we have mentioned suffice to show how archaeologists have placed their skills at the behest of national politics and ideology. Serbian archaeology and historiography have subjected the Albanians in general to such treatment, especially in Kosova.
After World War II, but especially after the serious events in Kosova in 1981, Serbian archaeologists set to work to refute the theory of the Illyrian ethnic of Albanians.
They are indeed not the first to cast doubt over the historical continuity between the Illyrians and the Albanians. Some specialists, especially Germans, including C. Pauli, H. Hirt, G. Mayer, and F. Cordignano , raised the question of the origin of the Albanian language and the Albanians in general. On the basis of what they considered to be scientific data they drew conclusions that disagreed with the theory that the Albanians are an indigenous population. Even though we do not today agree with their conclusions, we must emphasise that their arguments had no political or still less anti-Albanian overtones, and that they must be taken into consideration with proper seriousness when the problem of the ethnogenesis of the Albanians is discussed.
The politicisation of the problem that was later to become the hallmark of Serbian archaeology and historiography began with the Croat linguist Henrik Baric, who had close ties with Serbian academic and political circles. (6) Baric was a very capable linguist, but the motives impelling him to formulate his Thraco-Moesian theory of the origin of the Albanians remain dubious. His theory rests on linguistic data. The fact that the same linguistic material can be used in support of such diverse theories may alarm any student approaching this problem. Without denying linguists their right to formulate their conclusions on the basis of linguistic material, we must say that there also exist today a large quantity of archaeological, anthropological, ethnological, and ethnomusicological data. The large amount of research in recent decades has thus made it much easier today to tackle the problem of the ethnic origins of the Albanians than 50 or 100 years ago. The result achieved by workers in different disciplines in recent decades have reduced the importance of the work that relied on now obsolete linguistc evidence, and have made the autochthony of the Albanians, i.e. increasingly indisputable.
This conflict between new scientific result and the defenders of now obsolete theories is a phenomenon that can be explained by the increasing politicisation of the issue of Albanian ethnogenesis. In fact, the theory of Albanian autochthony has never been disputed with such determination and savagery as today, precisely when so much scientific proof has been produced in its support. Nevertheless, the number of researchers still today refusing to take into consideration the many arguments supplied by different academic disciplines has shrunk, or, more accurately, absolutely the only researchers who deny the theory of Albanian autochthony are Serbian. (7) Serbian archaeologists and historians began long ago to dispute the autochthony theory, but this opposition increased especially after the great Albanian revolt in Kosova in 1981. It was therefore a consequence of a political event rather than of new scientific data.
The Serbian archaeologist Milutin Garasanin represents a special case. In 1955, he wrote an article in the Prishtina periodical "Përparimi", in which he asserted that the Albanians are the direct descendants of the Illyrians. ( In the years that followed, Garasanin increasingly fell into line with other Serbian researchers who denied any such descent. This shift became still more evident in connection with the problem of the ethnic allegiance of the Dardanians, who inhabited the Kosova region. This problem became one of the most disputed in archaeology and history, assuming apolitical character after 1981. The Serbs vigorously attacked the idea that the Dardanians were ethnically Illyrian. Not because they were led to this conclusion by scientific evidence, but purely because Kosova was "the cradle of Serbian history" and "holy soil" for the Serbs, and as such could not have been inhabited by a people that were of Illyrian stock and hence claimed by their descendants, the Albanians.
In the past, Serbian researchers had not always been of one mind in allocating the Kosova region to the ancient Daco-Moesians. Milutin Garasanin himself, in his survey of prehistoric Serbia in 1973, openly admits that on the basis of their place names and personal names the Dardanians can be considered Illyrians, and that a Thracian and perhaps Dacian element is evident only in the eastern parts of their territories. (9)
However, when the Serbian Academy of Arts and sciences in 1986 organized a series of conferences on the ties between the Illyrians and the Albanians, this same Garasanin announced that the Dardanians cannot be considered Illyrians because they were ethnically more closely connected with the Daco-Moesian substratum. (10)
It is easy to explain this change in Garasanin’s stand. We are now in a period of history in which relations between the Albanians and Serbs of Kosova, and not only within this region, have dramatically deteriorated and no Serbian researcher can freely express his opinion over the Illyrian-Albanian question without exposing himself to the danger of changes of high treason.
It would be impossible to trace here the progress of the press, television, and radio campaign waged by Serbian researchers against the idea of Albanian autochthony. It is enough to recall an entertaining incident in this campaign which took place in Zagreb in 1982. Two years previously, in 1980, the first volume of the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia (Secon Edition) had been published, in which there were two entries, one entitled "Albanci" (Albanians), and the other "Albansko-Jugoslavenski odnosi" (Albanian-Yugoslavian relations). On pages 75-79, the Albanian historian from Kosova, Ali Hadri, had written the part of the entry under "Albanci" that dealt with "the origin and development of the Albanian people," in which he stated that the Albanians are the descendants of the Illyrians. The linguist Idriz Ajeti said the same, considering the Albanian language a successor to the Illyrian tongue.
When this volume had come off the press, the Albanian revolt in Kosova had broken aut, and when the Serbian edition of this same book was under preparation, the Serbian representatives on the Encyclopaedia’s central editorial board rejected the text that had already been published in the Croat edition (which they themselves had approved), and insisted that the two entries should be reformulated according to the ideas of Serbian historians. A long and bitter debate then took place within the editorial board, and was soon reflected in the Zagreb and Belgrade newspapers.(11) Ten contributions from historians and archaeologist were commissioned in order to prepare new versions of these entries.
At that time, the Serbian members of the editorial board could not impose their ideas on others. This meant that the new version that was printed in subsequent editions of the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia included textual changes in the sections dealing all mention of the continuity between the Illyrians and Albanians.(12)
Although unable to change what had already been published in the Croat edition, the publisher of the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia printed the new versions of the two entries and sent them to subscribers, requesting them to insert them in the appropriate place.
The debate within the Encyclopaedia’s editorial board was also echoed in political circles. At the ninth Congress of the Serbian Communist Party held in Belgrade on 27-29 May 1982, a bitter argument broke out over the ethnic origins of the Albanians. The congress of a political party was of course not the proper place to discuss an academic problem of this kind, but the question had apparently assumed a political character and could not be confined to academic circles.
It was nothing les than the incident involving the two entries in the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia that became the spark setting off this unexpected debate at the Serbian Communist Party: Congress. The Albanian linguist Idriz Ajeti referred to this scandalous incident in his speech in order to show that many Serbian researchers and journalists were politicising the issue to the extent that only a political forum could settle it, by political means.
Disgusted by the assaults of the newspapers, Professor Ajeti movingly defended at this congress the theory of the linguistic ties between the Illyrian and Albanian languages, and also the ethnic continuity between the Illyrians and the Albanians (13).
His speech met with an immediate response in the congress hall.
Pretending not to understand why a purely academic problem should become a discussion topic at a political congress, the Serbian historian Jovan Deretic asked in pathetic tones what point there was in politicising the question of the Albanians’ ethnic origin.
Why should the Albanians be the descendants of the Illyrians and not of the Thracians ? There was no point in dragging this question out of its academic context – on condition that the Thracian theory was accepted. The Illyrian theory could not be correct, simply because it was an _expression of Albanian imperialism, nationalism, etc. (14) According to Deretic, the Illyrian theory had "a slight whiff of racism" that reminded him of the theory of a pure Aryan race, "and we know very well who inspired that theory." (15) Immediately after Deretic, Petar Zivadinovic took the floor. Zivadinovic was elected a member of the Central Committee of the Serbian Communist Party at this congress. For him, science had still not solved the problem of the ethnic origins of the Albanians, but, although he had never dealt with such academic questions, he knew very well that the Albanians could not be descended from the Illyrians.
The historian Sima Cirkovic also though that the Illyrian theory "stank of racism." (16)
The newspapers at this time were full of articles about the speeches at the conference. "Politika," a Belgrade newspaper with little tolerance for the Albanians, published an article under the headline, "No Campaign, But Creative Criticism."
This newspaper apparently did not stop to consider that this stream of articles written by people who did more to compromise these authors than the Illyrian theory of the ethnic origin of the Albanians.
The book "The Albanians and Their Territories," published by the Albanian Academy of Sciences in Tirana in 1982, and in an English edition in 1985, caused considerable commotion. Albanian authors from Kosova were attacked especially harshly because their work demonstrated the autochthony of the Albanians in the province of Kosova. (17)
These authors attempted in vain to explain that all the articles included in this volume had been previously published in Yugoslavia and were therefore common knowledge long before the book appeared. (1 The attacks persisted because this book discussed what was the most delicate political problem in Kosova.
The campaign against the Illyrian theory intensified alongside the progressive deterioration of the political situation in Kosova. Serbia’s best-known historians appeared on the scene, including the linguist Pavle Ivic, who proceeded to ruin a large part of his own scientific work in order to prove that Serbian and Croatian are a single language. He had never tackled the problems of the Illyrians or Albanians, but it nevertheless emerged that the Albanians could only be of Thracian, not Illyrian origin.
In an interview for the Belgrade weekly NIN, Professor Ivic listed the linguists who have considered the Albanian language a descendant of Thracian and then recalled the well-known but now obsolete argument that the Albanians could not have lived on the Adriatic and Ionian coast, because they possessed word for fish.
According to Professor Ivic, the problem of the Illyrian origin of the Albanians is complicated, but there is nevertheless no question of any doubt that the Albanians are not descendants of the Illyrians and are therefore not indigenous to the province of Kosova. This is precisely what the journalist interviewing him and the magazine’s readers wanted to hear. (19)
A controversy then sprang up in the pages of this magazine between Professor Ivic, Mehmet Hyseni, and Shkelzen Maliqi. (20)
On one hand, all this controversy and debate encouraged the Albanians to study more deeply the problem of their ethnic origin from the archaeological and ethnographic point of view, while it drove Serbian researchers to the point of denying the results of their own work. In 1982, when this problem had become an inflammatory one in what was then Yugoslavia, the Academy of Sciences in Albania organised a national conference on the formation of the Albanian people, their language, and culture. At this conference, which was attended by many foreign historians, many specialists tried to present all the evidence that their different academic disciplines could offer to solve the problem of Illyrian-Albanian continuity. (21)
As in reply to this conference, the Serbs had the idea of organising in Belgrade, under the auspices of the Serbian Academy of Arts and Sciences, a series of conferences that were to tackle problems also dealt with in Tirana. The conferences, that were attended solely by Serbian historians, took place in May and June 1986. Their papers were later published in a book, in Serbian and French editions. (22)
A careful reading of the contributions of Ms. F. Papazoglu and Professor M. Garasanin reveals at least a kind of uncertainty in their arguments. These writers sometimes even imply that they do not favour an unconditional rejection of the Illyrian theory of the Albanians’ ethnic origin.
Of course, writers of propaganda have paid no attention to the academic evidence, and have not grasped these authors’ doubts, but only the evidence that suit their anti-Albanian campaign. Aware of the simplification which the complicated problem of the Albanians’ ethnic origins had undergone, professor Garasanin was careful to point out that the Albanians are undoubtedly a palaeo-Balkan people and that the Illyrian element played a part, albeit a minor one, in their formation.
Garasanin asserted that there can be no question of a direct continuity between the Illyrians and the Albanians, because the Illyrians disappeared from history during the five centuries of Roman occupation. The Albanians are therefore a people who were formed in the middle ages from small remnants of peoples, including the Illyrians, who inhabited the western Balkans in classical and mediaeval times.
There is no need to continue. However, we would like to end by emphasising that the misrepresentations of the Serbian academic community in connection with the ethnic origin of the Albanians are part of a long and painful story of abuses of this kind, which have been nothing but political propaganda paving the way for military repression. This is the meaning of the way for military repression. This is the meaning of the campaign by Serbian historians and journalists against the autochthony of the Albanians in the lands they inhabit.
References:
"Oratio fratris Vincentii Priboevii sacrae theologiae professoris ordinis praedicatorum De origine successibusque slavorum, "Venetiis, 1532. Modem bilingual (Latin and Croatian) edition by Professor Grga Novak (Vinko Pribojevic, "O podrijetlu i zgidama Slavena," Zagreb, Jugoslovenska akademija znanosti i umjetnosti, 1951. Compare Pribojevic’s ideas on pan-slavism with Professor Novak’s introduction to his 1951 edition, and to Alois Schmaus, "Vincentius priboevius, ein Vorlaeufer der Panslavismus," in "Jahrbuecher fuer die Geschichte Osteuropas," I, 1952, pp. 243-254; Veljko Gortan, Sizgoric i Pribojevic," "Filologija," 2, 1959, pp. 149-152. The history of the illyrian idea among the slavs has been written Reinhard Lauer, "Genese und Funktion des Illyrischen Ideologems in den suedslawischen Literaturen, 16. Bis anfang des 19. Jahrhunderts," in "Ethnogenese und Staatsbildung in Suedosteuropa," Klaus-Detlev Grothusen, Goettingen, 1974, pp. 116-143. Ljudevit Gaj, "Tko su bili stari Iliri?," "Danica ilirska," 5 (1839), Nr.10, pp.37-39; Nr.11, pp.41-43; Nr.12, pp. 46-48; Nr. 13, pp. 49-51; Nr.15, pp. 58-59. For example, S. Popovic, "Skiti, Iliri, Slavi," in "Letopis Matice srpske," 64 (1844) pp. 67-80. Bogoslav Sulek, "Sta namjeravaju Iliri?" Beograd, 1844. See the historical commentary on this pamphlet by Antun Barac, Hrvatska knjizevnist, I. Knjizevnost ilirizma, zagreb. Jugoslovenska akademija znanosti i umjetnosti, 1954, pp. 43-44, etc. See his studies, "Ilirske jezicne studije," Rad. JAZU knj.272, 1948, pp.157-208; "Poreklo Arbanasa u svetlu jezika," in "Lingvisticke studije," Sarajevo, 1954, pp.7-48; "Mbi origjinen e gjuhës shqipe," "Jeta e re." 4, 1952, Nr.3, pp. 205-211. There are exceptions, e.g. Slobodan Jovanovic, "Jugosloveni i Albanci," "Ideje: Casopis za teoriju savremenog drustva," 1987, Nr. 5-6, pp. 181-185. Milutin Garasanin, "Ilirët dhe prejardhja e tyre," "Përparimi," 1953, Nr.6, pp. 323-331. Milutin Garasanin, "Preistorija na tlu SR Srbije," vol.II, Beograd, Srpska knjizevna zadruga, 1973, p. 523. Milutin Garasanin, "Zakljucna razmatranja," in: "Iliri i Albanci," Beograd, 1988, p. 362. Ibro Osmani, "Dogovor o spornim tekstovima?," "Vjesnik," 19 June 1982, p.17; Ibro Osmani, "Kriterium i vetem – ai shkencor," "Rilindja," 19 June 1982, p. 12; Milos Misovic, "Kuda ide Jugoslavija?" "NIN," Nr. 1,678, 27 February 1983, p.31-32. The Prishtina historian Ali Hadri strongly rejected the objections raised by the Serbian group on the editorial board in a long reply that was published in Albanian under the title "Reply to Comments on the Historical Text of the Entries "Albanians," and "Albanian-Yugoslav Relations" in the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia," published in the review "Kosova," Nr.11, 1982, pp.217-259. A summary of this text was published in the Zagreb weekly "Danas," Nr. 16, 8 June 1982, p. 14. His report was published in prishtina: "Mbi origjinen ilire të gjuhës shqipe," "Rilindja," 29 May 1982, p.14. Jovan Deretic, "Cemu sve to sluzi?," "Danas," Nr. 16,8 June 1982, pp. 62-63. This assertion was strongly criticised by the Croat writer Ivan Lovrenovic in his article, "Miris kao kriterij," "Danas," Nr. 17, 15 June 1982, p. 17. For further information about this dispute, see Teodor Andjelic, "Ilirsko-albanske enigma," "NIN," Nr. 1,640, 6 June 1982, pp. 30-32. Milos Misovic, "Grehovi i gresnici," "NIN," Nr. 1,660, 24 November 1982, pp. 16-17. Provodom knjige "Albanci i njihova ognjista," "NIN," Nr. 1,665, 28 November 1982, p. 2.p. Milo Gligorijevic, "Albanija i Kosovo: seobei teritori," "NIN," Nr. 1,664, 21 November 1982, pp. 32-35. Mehmet Hyseni, "Za nauku, bez spekulacija," "NIN," Nr. 1,666, 5 December 1982, pp. 2-3; Shkelzen Maliqi, "Mistifikacija istoriografije," "NIN," Nr. 1,667, 12 December 1982, pp. 3, 6; Pavle Ivic, "Naucna tastina radi osporovanja nauke," "NIN," Nr. 1,667, 12 December 1982, pp. 6, 19;Pavle Ivic, "Istorijski mitovi i indoktrinacija," "NIN," Nr. 1,671, 9 January 1983, pp. 6,13; Shkelzen Maliqi, "Mistifikacija istoriografije," "NIN," Nr. 1,673, 23 January 1983, pp. 2-3; Pavle Ivic, "Pravo nauke na istinu," "NIN," Nr. 1,675, 6 February 1983, p.19. The papers of this conference were published in French, "Problemes de la formation du peuple albanais, de sa langue et de sa culture (Choix de documents), " Tirana, Editions "8 Nëntori," 1985. Iliri i Albanci – Les Illyriens et les Albanais, Beograd, Srpska akademija nauka i umetnosti, 1988.
u hope i die etc? what kind of people say things like this? i was putting together a memorial for rugova and iwanted to trace his illirain roots. 500 years of the turks? were they not your best friends? i mean did you not tek their religion (where the sword lies religion?) were their officer ranks in the ottoman army not 60% albanian? and to the first responder thank you for posting that, but again I dont think that u understood my question, the question was: can you please show me a ALBANIAN source from prior to the 19TH CENTURY that makes the illiran claim (that is prior to the century in which the albanians saw first the Croats then Serbs make the "illirian" claim first). please and thank you. i am waiting to finsih my memorial, sorry for rugova (he was very funny casue he looked like roberto bengini and he was hilarious at the milosevic trial with his answers, www.domovina.net watch it really funny oscar winning performance. the funniest was when he refused to say kosovo was part of serbia while on his hauge profile it said he came from: prishtina, serbia. only an albaniac....
quote: Well considering albanians were not allowed to study in their own language or have schools of any kind, bc the Ottoman Turks forbade it, for 500+ yrs, I think it would be hard to give you a source.
question: didnt the serbs live live under the most brutal laws of the ottomans for 500 years while preserving the epic stories of the Kosovo battle and continutiy of their culture verbally amongst its people (hiding from the turks)? did they not keep their religion and not accept the faith of their occupiers (as only leeches would do)? u know the answers to this. if the albos were the desendents of the great illirians you wuld have had a continuity of culture even stronger through-out the 500 years of the turks, but u didnt for one simple reason - u are not illirians.
still waiting for a response, please help...funny how it is so hard to find an albo source from prior to the 19th century that cliams ur great illiran past.
again i am patientlly awaiting an albo source from prior to the 19th cent. that claims ur illirian decent? oh and by the way the serbs fled cause the turks saw them as their biggest enemy in the balkans, a people who faught them harder than anyone in the region a people who did not convert and whos entire nation was exposed to the albanian/turkish killing machine (i mean u should be glad that the serbs fled kosovo because u were never there before that, the sheephearders came down from the mountain "mr. topograpghy" and they were your grandfathers. oh and 1 more question: weren't the core of officers (60%) of the ottoman army albanian??????? (not mention all the other albos who ruled land all over for the turks, muhamed ali etc) WOW GREAT "RESISTANCE" HAHAHAHAH!!!
Does it matter to Serbs if Albanians are from Illyrians or Thracians or Vikings?? What should matter to them is that their troops will never again set foot in Kosova. Our resolve is even greater after loosing our dear President. Now it really has to be an Independet Sovereign state just as he repeated it over and over. He is Kosovar Ataturk, our George Washington.His life was not in vain he will live forever!
We had no state before the 19th century or even during it, that's why it's hard to find an albanian source that claims that we are illyrians. The appropriation of the past is a 19th century phenomenon. You can still refer to our language which is quite relevant about our illyrian origin.
Albanian is only written since the 12th century and by a really few people. Mass letration is to be considered from about the beginning of the 20th century.
All what you consider that makes a national identity like traditional clothes and folklore and all that stuff was created in the 19th century. The national identity is something very artificial and that's why we albanians have no really strong national feeling through theese aspects but you serbs have one essentially because you had a state during the 19th century. It's a chance for us because we do not live in a huge lie like the other people of euurope do. We have a national feeling through our language which is something clear and relevant,it has been developped during centuries by a few scholars partly living in Italy and in the Sardaigna island.
If you really want to read about albanians from an albanian source before 18 century I sugest to go and read Marin Barleti who wrote between the 14-15th century. Good luck
There were 10000 albanians killed and 90% of the population deported by the serbian terroristic and genocidal state during the 1999.So when we kill 10001 serbs and deport 91% of the serbian population you are going to have the moral right to bitch about it.Till then we should show you the same love that you showed us.
As for the proof of the Albanian-Illyrian connection,read this. The Serbian archaeologist Milutin Garasanin represents a special case. In 1955, he wrote an article in the Prishtina periodical "Përparimi", in which he asserted that the Albanians are the direct descendants of the Illyrians. ( In the years that followed, Garasanin increasingly fell into line with other Serbian researchers who denied any such descent. So find that 1955 article from "Perparimi" and read it.We albanians have no doubts about our illyrian origins.Like we have no doubts about the iranian origins of serbian or other slavic people. http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/common_origin_croats_serbs_jats.php
those belgians and germans are xenophobic, same as serbians. (greeks are the most xenophobic of all according to polls).
Because Daniel Server says something, that doesnt mean it will happen. I dont know what terrorists you are talking about. No terrorists can come to power in Kosovo.
If you are talking about former KLA leaders (which are not terrorists but freedom fighters) then I have bad news for you. They are already in power. LDK is in coalition with AAK, led by Ramush Haradinaj.
To the anonymous who is asking the question "can anyone give me an albanian source from prior to the 19th century that cliams u are illirian?"
This is a stupid question. Why? Because no research has been done before the 19th century on that issue, neither by Albanians nor anyone. This question is the same as saying "Give me a source from prior to 19th century that claims that Troy existed in modern Turkey". There is no source for that because no one ever bothered to look for Troy before that.
The Albanians never felt the need to assert their Illyrian ancestry, until the attacks from the Slavs on that issue became widespread. You should be asking yourself, why you keep asking stupid questions.
To the last poster
Serbs are a combination of Slavs and an Iranian tribe calles "Serbs". So the name Serb is iranian and the people are a mix. (Same goes for Croatians)
Dear Ivan, you as an idiot and your idiotic provocations can't do any harm to us anymore...Idiot is not a perfect word to describe you, but let´s leave it like that...serbians provoked us during the 80s and 90s...the reason was simple...they tried to start a war with albanians and cleans Kosova...but the war started in the 1999...wasn´t the perfect timing ...Usa wasn´t fighting terrorism...they had time to deal with your terrorist country...and now they have invested to much to leave the job unfinished...the things that you said about the albanians in europe are not true...we have a bad image but you have a worse one...I live in Europe and I know some things about here better than you...and Usa is supporting the rightious demands of albanians, so other country´s don´t count...Usa is Empire these days... The only thing you can hope is Usa to fall as an Empire... make an idiotic wish you dear idiot...
I am writing to tell you guys that it was me who wrote the post before and you assumed that I was anonymous. But if you read the post you see that I signed it with "Illyrianboy" at the end. I guess that just proves how stupid you guys are. You can't even read properly.
Your posts are really childish.
I wonder where did the first ANONYMOUS poster go who was asking questions about Illyrians. I guess he didnt like my response, so now he disappears. (By the way Ivan, as you can see everything you said about writing anonymously applies to your SERBIAN friend, ironic ha?)
Illyrianboy
HELLOOO Look above. There, I signed the post. Can you see?
If Albanians dont have electricity, how the fuck are they supposed to create electricity for the serbs only. They are on the same boat.
And let me remind you that it was the Serbian government who didnt allow macedonian trucks with fuel to pass through serbian territory (tabanovce) to go to Kosovo. They were hoping to plunge Kosovo into an energy crisis. Good idea. But it didnt work, cos fuel is coming with the trains.
hey stupid ivan, it was not Heki, it was me who wrote the post. you are really stupid. i had written the previous post and than I wrote "again". you are really stupid. PATHETIC!
Cvijus all your posts are stupid, insensitive, ignorant.
Wow, on the subject of "Kosovo Mourns the Loss of President Rugova" there are 57 comments most of which have nothing to do with the loss of President Rugova.
People especially Albanians, do not get provoked so easy just pay your respects and move on. Serbs do the same, and if you can't just move on to a blogg where people might care as to what your opinions are on Illyrians or the perception of whom ever, where ever.
End this nonsense NOW. DO NOT REPLY TO PETTY, DISRESPECTFUL COMMENTS.
I wonder if you know which part of Kosova is the 'Metohija'? I mean I am sure you can read and ask around, but be truthfull if you can and tell me from the top of your head.
And another thing - stop blaming everything on the Milsevic and the regime. A bit of a lesson on how things work - a regime is made of people that were elected by the people - now don't tell me you were the biggest victims of the regime. Come on, you were, or rather the serbs in Kosovo, enjoying the life that no other nation new. By killing and oppresing the Albanians for what they had - the freedom of speach. By the way, why did you overthrow your Milosevic regime? Because you could not stand the oppression? Is that right? That is exactly why we fought - because the peacefull demonstrations were met with the brutality of the serbian police and army. I guess you would not know these things and it is because your media did not report them. Get the facts straight and then start arguing...
About apologising - here it goes - I apologise in the name of Albanians that we have killed Serbs in Kosova after 1999. Did that satisfy you? Have the problems now been solved?
Apologosing is easy, making it hapen is something else. Apologising means that you return all of Albanian bodies that are still in mass graves in Serbia. Apologising means that you have to return all the wealth stolen from Kosova which include the archives as well as historical artifacts (which prove that we are the descendants of Illyrians). Apologising is to start respecting our culture, no matter how 'primitive' you might think it is. Apologising is to finally accept that you have lost power in Kosova and that you will only be treated as equal as everybody else.
Crimes happen everywhere - and yes, there are criminals who kill serbs and indeed Albanians. But I am pretty sure that there are Serbs that kill each other - and I doubt that they are branded as terrorists... Do you actually know the definition of the word terrorist?
In one of the comments I read that there is a baker in Belgrade who is Albanian. I have a cousin in Belgrade, whose mother is Serb and Father Albanian - and when she came to Kosova she said that she is not being treated good in Belgrade, for her name is Albanian.
Now get to grips with reality and stop offending Kosovars and Albanians because you are not superior to any other nation in the world. In fact you are inferior, or have grown to be so.
Additionally, I work with a Serb in Prishtina, and he is a good lad and he travels freely from a village in Gjilan to Prishtina every day. Has he complained? No. We go out for drinks now and again, go out to lunch together. We have gone past the hatred phase. I recommend that you do so to.
Serbs can freely move in Kosova if they want to, it is your media, your papers and tv's that spread lies (I guess because of the Milosevic regime!?!?). Have you ever been in Kosova? Do you know what it looks like or do you still believe your media that Albanians live in trees? If it is the latter, then god help you, although I think that it is a lost cause.
Guys, I can see that you are trying to prove to yourselves that you are better then Albanians - and for insignificant people like you, than so be it.
And about the killings of serbs in Kosova - how can you convince a person whose family has been wiped out of the face of the earth by the serbs, not to retaliate? That person is probably living with rage every day, and will probably be a disturbed person, so he will grab every chance that he has to retaliate - I am sure you would do the same.
btw - Heki said it quite well, 'Quid pro Qou' - but you did not understand it. Ask your parents what it means.
I congratulate you for the courage for writting such nonsense. what freedoms did the serbs have? what freeedoms did the serbs have that albanians didnt have? give me a break, we did not have freedom of speech either. All the TV and radio stations that were opposing milosevic were either shut down or were under strict supervision. If Otpor memeber were tortured and anybody who wanted to succed in Serbia had to become a memebr of either SPS or JUL. Give me a break, if anybody should trial milosevic its the serbs.
A simple question needs a simple answer: Did you have the right/freedom to learn in your onw language? The University in Prishtina was closed to the Albanians - we could not study in Albanian. Our secondary schools were closed to Albanian classes - i.e. we had to learn in establishments such as private houses. Was this freedom denied to you? The secondary schools and Prishtina university was open to serb students only and in serbian only. A lo tof Kosovar Albanians had to leave Kosova in search for a better future elsewhere in Europe - because our parents did not have any jobs. They were dismissed for not wanting to sign to be a part of milosevics regime. Read a bit more and stop beliving what your media tought you even though it was under Milosevic's regime. Get your facts right. I know that you were oppressed as well but not to the extent that the Albanians were.
And one more thing - you have very selective reading. At no point did I say that I approve of the killings. My uncle was killed and another one was imprisoned together with his two sons in Serbia where he was killed. And for that reason, according to you, I should have done the same instead of talking here to you. But that is not the case. All I said was that the war has scarred some people who go on and retaliate. I also told you that I work with a serbian guy and we go out for coffee and lunch. Should I have killed him by now?
Plus stop comparing Belgrade to the rest of Serbia. Belgrade is a big city and not many give a shit about politics. And I met several serbs who work in Belgrade that came to visit Kosova. They say it is fine here - we went out and entertained them. Spoke serbian and it didn't even turn anybody's head.
And about my cousin? Of course she came to Prishtina and was able to do so. Where is the problem there? She was able to go back to Belgrade as well wasn't she? What is that argument about? She can't speak a word of Albanian - and for that reason she would have, according to you, been killed for speaking serbian. Instead she had a good time.
And nobody is talking about bood feud. Who said anything about that? It's a spur of the moment... and those that killed serbs have been arrested and they were all individuals. Maybe they don't know better because they didn't have a chance to be educated because the serbs closed the schools? Could that be a possibility? Use some 'deductive resoning' to why those things happened.
Come one, if your police/army/regime was bad to you guys what do you think it was to us?
And I am not saying that all serbs are bad, am I? So why are you branding all Albanians to be terrorists?
Is that how you are tought at school?
What is wrong with you? Why do you hate Albanians so much?
And you didn't answer my question - do you know where Metohija is? Or you use that because it was Milosevic who referred to it as 'Kosovo and Metohija'? Is that how YOU apologise? Is that how YOU want to go forward to joing Europe?
Do you deny that you do not want to lose Kosovo because of your dream for Greater Serbia? Or Montenegro for that reason? Does your most famous patriotic song go like this: 'Who is lying that Serbia is small, it isn't - it has grown thrice, and who lies that serbia doesn't have [access to] sea - it has montenegro?' Isn't that your dream?
We did not participate in your elections because our parliament (asembly) was dismissed - who would I had to vote for? Draskovic or Seselj?
Get real!!! Read a bit more.
please ignore all comments out of context of ivan and cvijus for the sake of the this moment
I know I should let him be and I should not try to educate him, but I am getting a bit annoyed with his ignorance and selective reading.
To Mir. There is no albanian in this world expecting any love from the serbs.So we don't care if Mir or all the serbian nation doesn't like us. How do you know that in an independent kosova,will be no economic prosperity? Who are you Adam Smith?
To cvijus. You listed all the historic and cultural aspects that make serbia and serbian nation respected in the world.Then how come this people that respect you and like you so much Bombed the shit out of your country in 1999? And don't blame it on Clinton or Blair or the West. To Ivan. You are a dickhead.Are you flattering yourself because Russia ,Bulgaria,Greece like you?Slavic people have always been our public enemy number one,from the times that they showed their faces in the balkans.So there is nothing new in there.Greece has a lot of territorial disputes with us so the orthodox brotherhood comes in handy in this case.you can make up all the shit that you want about the Albanians,but We have never committed genocide against other people.You killed 250 000 people and caused 4 wars in the nineties.The civilized world had to bomb your primitive species.
Just because a few select albanians or serbs have killed innocent ppl, how does that make the whole nation cruel and with no morals? Just because a few serbs or albanians cannot make proof-sounded arguements, how does that make the whole nation stupid and/or ignorant? How can you say that you wish that all serbs or albanians die (including women and children) and then make a comment about someone's morality?
Also the most ridiculous thing for Albanians to argue is that European countries like....they must realize that they are viewed the same way as Mexicans in US. Likewise, it is ridiculous for the serbs, or any nationality for that matter, to argue that the Albanians didn't descend from Illyrians. Many scholars (who thats all they research all their life) have already established the link which is also accepted by the international scientific community based simply on evidence without any political bias.
Now who are yall (whether Serb or Albanian) to discuss the genealogy of a nation. Where is your doctorate degree or publications in respected journals to back up your credentials as a scholar?
So according to your logic Mir if that article shows albanian primitivism then all the facts about serbian genocide,concentration camps,masive graves,infanticide,deportation, show how evolved you serbs are. So now for us albanians to become evolved like you serbs should first kill 10 000 serbs and deport the rest from kosova,like you did with us.
How can you claim that the Serb population is responsible for genocide? How can you imply that the Albanian population is primitive? Its the same as saying that all apples have worms in them, just becuase one of them happened to have one. There are primitive people in every country in the world (US included). There are people that are comitting genocide as I write this piece, and these ppl are from the most developed countries in the world. Enough with the back and forth arguments because it is getting ridicoulous to the point that one is even claiming that an article from a respected newssource (that doesnt really give a damn about Albania or Kosovo) is a forgery...and that is done on purpose. Dude! Thats ridiculous. You know paranoya is sign of the onset of schizophrenia
...would you please stop replying to these serbian ssluts already..they do not deserve or merit any of our time or effort...Kosova will be independent soon or later and once it is we will build a Troy like wall around the border so we never have to deal with your 'kind' anymore...notice the emphasis on the word 'kind' because you are surely not human....so go away and live miserably with the fact that you are serbian and stuck with it and that you will always be associated with genocide and slaughter of the innocent....
I congratulate you on your research abilities re Metohija. I asked you to tell me from the top of your head - not to go and research. But well done. Although it is not correct, but anyway.
Re: Your patriotic song - I know what it was like - but I also remember how serbs in Kosova sang it when they came to celebrate the lost war 600 years ago in Gazimestan for I was in Prishtina at that time. And they broadcasted it in every station in the 90's.
Re: Djindjic, Ljajic - Are we not supposed to have a free vote? Are you suggesting that we cannot be represented by whom we choose? Isn't that an infringment of civil liberties? Just a slight reminder of what you wanted to do all along: http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/Kosovo/Kosovo-Background18.htm
Re: Schools in Albanian language - that was our right with the then YU constitution, which incidentaly was changed in 1960's to allow this. And according to the YU constitution of 1974, all republics and provinces had the right, with a public vote in the republic/proivince in question, to declare it indipendent from YU if they so wanted. We wanted it - serbia did not allow it and in turn dissolved, by force, the Kosova parliament (assemby).
Re: Employees dismissed (or as you called voluntarily left) - This happened because our parents knew that even more of Kosova's wealth will go directly to Serbia if they signed - e.g. Elektro Ekonomia e Kosoves (Electro Privreda Kosova) would by default become Electro Privreda Srbije - without any compensation or shares being given to the employees - basically was annexed - any many other companies. And please don't give me that excuse that Serbia built it - just for once be realistic.
Re: Turkish cadastral tax census - according to these numbers - only about 40K ppl lived in majority of Kosova 500+ years ago. I find this a bit rediculous. Don't you?
Re: Working for an american company in Belgium. I am sorry, for not understanding what sort of declarations do you need to sign? Is there any of them to do with Belgian wealth being signed to US?!? - outside your company that is. What sort of a comparison is that?
Re: Turks in germany + schools: Go to London - there are schools that are in hindu only - and parents can choose where to send their kids.
Serbian killings in Kosovo: Use what against it?
Have you been to Kosova? How can you, from Belgium know that the people were not arrested? Do you follow news from Kosova (not serbian agencies) every day? What sort of a vision do you have of Kosova?
Re: Hating Serbs: ditto. You said that if we were angels (Albanians) we would have our indipendence long time ago. In other words, you would have granted us our wish long time ago? And because no-one in the world is an angel, no one is allowed to have their own state?
Re: Big Serbia: Isn't that why you fought in Croatia/Bosnia/Kosova? You would attack Albanian if it wasn't for Kosova being on the way.
No-one is denying any crimes - and those that have committed crimes during the war are behind bars in the Hague - the others were released. Those that still kill serbs in Kosova go to prison every day. Read a bit more of unbiased news.
Re: Elctricity to serbian enclaves: You live in Belgium don't you? Would you have any electricity if you did not pay for 7 years? In fact let me reformulate the question - would you have electricity if you didn't pay for more than 3 months? Serbs in northern Mitrovica and Kosova don't pay any electricity, water nor telephone - and where there is no electricity in the rest of Kosova they get theirs from Serbia. And they expect to have electricity 24/7 where the rest of Kosova don't. As a matter of fact, Serbia has on several occasions stopped Kosova importing electricity from Bulgaria and Romania. How can we supply electricity to any place in Kosova for there have been years of neglect of the Kosova's electrical company? Only last week there was a landslide in Kosova and blocked the road from Skopje, and the fuel tanks (trucks that is - just in case you want to twist the use of word tanks) were not allowed to cross through Serbia into Kosova.
Would you mind if I advice you on something re journalism and research?
Every journalist and researcher checks its story/research from at least 2 sources. And then they come to their conclusion (at least the researchers are supposed to). You do the same and come up with your own conclusions and use a bit of deductive reasoning. I do not believe everything that i read in the papers/intenet for it it the belief of the author and may/may not be true. I certainly read a lot from UK/US agncies, kosova papers/tv and B92. Do you read any news from Kosova agencies? Or are you limitted to news from serbia alone?
Btw, can you tell me the name of the company that you work for? I want to apply for a job since it seems that they do not mind you spending a lot of time writing (I wanted to include 'nonsence' here, but then I decided not to, simply because I cannot spend a lot of time writing because replies to what you might come up with next and my bosses certainly do not like me spending a lot of time on the internet) and nobody seems to mind.
I perfectly understand what state sovereignity means. You don't seem to understand what freewill means.
Why should we have helped him? That is you telling someone what to do, instead of voting themselves for whom they wanted. Has anyone told you how to vote? Would you be pissed off for someone to tell you who to vote for?
How do we know that he would not in turn behaved exactly like milosevic? What guarrantees were given? Have you, as a nation, or any of your leaders, who even today continue to undermine every political move and blame everything on killings, terrorism, no electricity, etc, etc, earn the respect of any Albanian to vote for them?
You have allowed milosevic to steal the votes, by not recognising the freewill of Albanians who were not represented in the government by dismissing the parliament. Don't go blaming Albanians for your own mistakes. It is like saying Albanians are to blame because Bush is in power. Probably that is, according to you cvijus, also passive assistance. He he, you are really something... you really made me laugh...
Vaso Cubrilovic - Stalinist. So what? Does that justify that he should submit a memorandum on 'The Expulsion of the Albanians'? Hasn't that allways been your dream?
I tell you something, I take my hat off to Enver Hoxha for not accepting Albania to be the 7th republic of YU. What he did in terms of regime, I am not proud, but at least he prevented you guys to go to and occupy Albania as well.
Constitution: You said it yourselve: The provinces have the right to change to Republics (which we wanted and were met by force in 1981 - or you have forgotten that) and therefore de facto become independent if the majority (which is 2/3) by public vote.
As far as I remember and I remember vividly, in the demonstrations of '89, where I also participated, the demonstrations were peacefull, all we were shouting was the constitution not to be changed. What happened? We were beaten by serb police from Serbia who came in busloads. And I know this since I live opposite the bus station in Prishtina. Unless you were there, shush!!!
Electro Privreda Kosova, was never part of Electroprivreda Srbije, and as a matter of fact, EPK was the biggest regional (read regional, not world or which way you wish to twist it) producer and exported electricity to Serbia (and some part of former YU), Bulgaria, Greece, Romania, etc. How do I know this? I'll tell you - my uncle used to work on the department of electo distribution before he was forcibly removed from his post and has worked after the war again. And I can probably find sources on the internet if you feel like you want to bother me. So again, shush!
'DO you find it ridiculous that since 1389 there were constant wars in Kosovo.'
For once I agree with you. Before your arrival in the Balkans from the urals the region was peacefull. Now, being so intelligent, tell me who is the warmonger?
Schools in turkish: Germany maybe, in UK, schools in hindu, are statefunded.
Cvijus, Plese post the link for web site in Albanian... you forgot to post it.
And yes I know that they do not pay. It is a public knowledge in Kosova and there are countless articles in different papers and reports that serbs in northern Kosova and for that matter in other enclaves do not pay. As far as northern Mitrovica is concerned, I know, my wife's family lives in Mitrovica, and they have some boshnjak friends who live in the northern part (in their enclaves I must add because they fear the serbs) who said that they do not pay any electricity, phone water or taxes. In fact, they even receive wages from Serbia.
As well as being in Kosova with human and minority rights, you are a trucker as well. I think, that in times of crisis, in order to prove yourselves worthy of being trusted, you shold have allowed the trucks to pass through Serbia in order for us to provide energy to Kosovar homes, be that Albanian or Serb. And as for papers, Serbia does not accept Kosova plates - why? Simply they want to make it harder for Albanians to move around. And don't give me any of the BS saying that we are part of Serbia, and therefore we should have Serbian plates, bllah blah blah... Police confiscated our plates when we were expulsed in 1999... Plus you don't know if they had any papers or not, you assume that...
Malcolm and Richard Holbruck - Now who mentioned them? Plus Holbruck is your milosevics friend.
Arguing with Mr Ivan and Other serbs is like arguing with imbeciles. To be able to communicate with them you must stoop to theri level and they will beat you with years of experience as imbeciles. Fact 1: The whole fucking planet knows that the serb army will never set foot in Kosova. Fact 2: Albanians are a majority in Kosova. Fact 3: Slowly but surely the serbs in Kosova will cease to exist. Fact 4: serb legacy for centuries to come will be thousands of bosniac and albanian women raped, Srebrenica and concentration just like the nazis. Strategically, serbs have the croats in the north, bosniacs in the west, hungarians in the east us albanians in the south, which means you are FUCKED. No wonder you bitch so much about Kosova.Your time is UP!
xythi even though we are still mourning the president and the serbs try to provoke in their usual ways, i laugh from the bottom of my heart when i read your posts... your really have nerves to deal with these multiple disordered people( expect now the definition of MDP from ivan...we will surf on internet and try to tell us that he is educated) pershendetje nga Iliri
Mr anonymous serb bitch I thought I made it clear to you but who am i kidding you morons are so brainwashed even if you say its daylight at 1pm people shouldn't believe you . So here are all those fact once again: Fact 1: The whole fucking planet knows that the serb army will never set foot in Kosova. Fact 2: Albanians are a majority in Kosova. Fact 3: Slowly but surely the serbs in Kosova will cease to exist. Fact 4: serb legacy for centuries to come will be thousands of bosniac and albanian women raped, Srebrenica and concentration camp just like the nazis. Strategically, serbs have the croats in the north, bosniacs in the west, hungarians in the east us albanians in the south, which means you are FUCKED. No wonder you bitch so much about Kosova.Your time is UP!
Is this you're so called civilisation. Do you think by promoting nationalism,chauvinism,heatred and by ofending the history and values of one society is your argument to bring serbia closer to the free World (EU, Nato). Well I'm afraid you're compleately on a wrong coorse. That's what Milosevic did. You're trying to prove something that is not only sensless but ridiculous as well, because our history and origin is accepted by the free world, so we do not have to convince you nothing. Using yur language of hate and some informition which is unrelevant doesn't make you any smarter. Sometimes i've got the impression that you've gained your knowledge in the streets, so do not try to sell it to te free world. By trying to ofend our origine you're just proving your tirany and barbarism which you've braught with in the VI century. Above all the fact you're trying to prove are very useless to convince the world that what was then called Yugoslavia to put again under your control and dominitaion,where Kosova was part of it. Try to use your language and knowledge for better purposes,such as calling for peace respecting the heritage an the culture of your neighbours then you'll make more chance to convince all of us that destruction and hate isn't the only thing know. What albanians concerns,we have proven our civilisation to the civilised world. Patience,prudence,and our courage under a 100 year cruel occupation have shown the world our dignity and wisdom. We said Yes to demokracy, we been defending our selves with the power of tolerance and we've said yes to the most respected and prominent pacifist our president "Ibrahim Rugova" 4 times. We had our hardliners as well which also had their reasoble worries, but we followed the path of our visioner " Rugova" We've been patient for more then a dekade by ingoring your relenting repression with peacefull means, but even if we wer to continue for a 1000 years the same course , it would'nt change anything on your hegemonist policy. Obviously you've forgotten who started the Yugoslav wars, who made the fabrics of masacres and rape, who made the contetration camps. Is this the history and legacy you are proud with ? What do you think should we have to continue on our peacefull resistance for another 1000 of years. Of course everything has an end, so does the patience as well. Obviously the attrocities that you've caused means that this proces should have still continued. And I see you're trying to compare our resistance by bringing up some ridiculous and unrelevant figures. Eventhogh I'm no way supporting violence, what you've expected by us god damned, did you expect to throw you with gillyflowers or even say thank you. Did you expect from us to see our parents,brothers,sisters and friends being slaughterd our wifes,daughters and sisters being raped just infront of our eyes to pretend as nothing have happend or even say thank you.Don't forget a descent man (people)distance himself from atrocities, didn't the Serbs have the time to do that, how long would have taken them to realize what their leaders were doing to their albanian neighbours was unfair and crule. Do not try to make us wiser with your dirty propaganda cause the world knows who's the agressor. Just to remind you wern't the Kosovan serbs those who supported the millosevic regime, weren't the Kosovan serbs those who before-non worked as financial inspectors robbing albanian shops and in the afternoon serving at the paramilitary forces and as a special police officers, wern't the serbs those who poisoned thousands of albanian pupils and students.....etc. not to mention million of other cases and facts which even a thousands of books wouldn't be sufficient to describe our pain caused by serbs. Couldn't they(serbs) say no in a good sake, couldn't they ? So i say again that i no way support the violence, but every action has its reaction, there's someone in this dicussion who said "Quid pro Qou" or ther's a proverb "the harvest is what you plant. It's them who are causing the troubles and not us, they started the violence on march 2ooo by killing 29 albanian neighbours, it is them who who started the riots of again march 2004 after killing three (3) albanian children, it is them who refuse to integrate to a kosovan society, it is them who left the Kosova assembly, etc. etc.. obviosly peace and integration is not your thing. And once again it's not only albanians the only ones who suffered from your civilisation, but are you're sllav brothers as well,particularly bosnians who paid a big price with nearly 300,000 victims. Is this your so called civilistaion ? Well I tell you our so called primitivism have been appreciated and rewarded by the free world. Of course we also might have made faults we realize that there's no perfect society, you're the only ones whpo pretend that, but there's no way to compare a very few cases with your genocide. Be carefull because you're sacring the world with the language you speak, you just giving them one more fact that you are only a destructive element of every civilisation. If it wasn't your predominant policy the union of former Yugoslavia wouldn't bankrrupt(brake). Above all if you were so good and civilised why no a single country of the former union (YU) wants you,even your brothers "Monte Negro" want to get rid of you. Only by showing a tolerance, respect and constructive police you can be accepted from your neighbouring countries and then the EU. Your destructive language has just shown what the serbs would bring wit them into the union. So try to be more constructive and call for peace, calm down and try to use a proper reasoning and be a tolerant, only than you can prove that you belong to the European family. In my previous post i've said there is no contry without conflict and hsitory , but if we have to use the History like you preach then you're making the EU afraid from you,then we will have to bring back the most crules regimes, and empires.... Don't forget that it's not the history who will bring you to the free world, but your values, so try to work on it and then you maybe make a better chance. Then you mention economy,how you dare to speak about economy when you're living from the world's financial aid. And what your priviliges in Europe concerns ,once again i'll have to tell you that you can make a collective guilt because then noone is good in this world.You're living in Belgium am i right he ? You must know than who is Marc Dutroux, you heart also about Michel Fourniret , cause i think that's not necessary to tell their story right here , but just a comparisson, just because they did what they've done I never say that Belgian society is worthless. Just because I think you're very bad , i don't think that every serb is bad , etc.. etc... I've been to Belgium and I've met many albanians but all of them were well respected. Of course , I say again there are criminals among the Albanians , but just go and ask some more information in Antwerp in particular, who are the most dangerous bands ther, then you'll get the answer. And it's not the Albanians that Belgium and other EU countries are having problems with, but some north african residents who are finding it difficult to adjust to the West-European normes,as well as with some immigrants of the new member states that joined the EU immigrants which make a pretty unfair competition in the labour market. Go there and ask Filip Dewinter if he sees a difference between kosovans,serbs,polish or else... and about the serbian named streets in germany and .. if you live in Belgium go to Brussels,in the Scarbeek area(zone) than you'll see the statue of our grateful hero SKENDERBEU standing there infront of Josaphat Park. So please go and refresh your mind and your poisoned heart and then come here with another vision so we can discuss the future, bacause as you see, you're proud with history and I am proud with mine and comparing it brings us nowhere. So please try to sell your wisdom somewhere else.
PS i'm aware that you'll come again with even worst statement and comment so don't forget that I'm suprised if you do so, and the reason that i gave again a comment on this topic is because of Ilir(anonymous) who tryed to show the other side of the book. so this refers to ilir as well, do not spend the energy with people like this,because if you've apologised them not 1000 times but even 1000 of years that wouldn't make them think different,and you should have realised that since the very beginig, so please do not respond to their comments because you're feeding their nationalism and brings you in the same boat. So simply they are born to destruct. We have more important things to do and discuss.
Mr Ivan excremented: Let me help our confused albanian friends,
The answer lies in the Byzantine chroniclers which date the arrival of Albanians (Alvanoi) from Southern Italy at 1043 in central Albania (Durrës) as mercenaries in the army of Maniakis.
I say: in that case we have done pretty damn good. So dont go on bs-ing how your army is great and serbia is amazing cause only a handful of alabanian mercenaries have almost taken from you the whole serbia. However, the fact now is that there are more than 7 million albanians in a compact area which you can't asssimilate or anihilate.How long will you last in a 15 round fight against Muhammad Albanian. You are shitting your pants even as the negotiations are going on. You better start making A-bombs bitch.
Then please give the Serbs in Kosovo to have free will. They want to be part of Serbia not some new Albanian country.
OK - lets put it to the public vote in a referendum in Kosova only and let it be decided that way what the majority want. We are not against a referendum. That is what we wanted all along.
Re: Greater Albania - Where was in this blogg Greater Albania mentioned appart from you Serb writers? I think you should need to understand that we want Indipendence, not Albania and certainly not Serbia. I think (read 'think') that because you did not achieve the 'Great Serbia' are afraid that we are seeking Great Albania.
Your politicians could have represented your people in the Serbian Parliament. The reason why your parliament got dismissed is because you declared independence which was against the Serbian constitution. IF your politicians decided to participate in the Serbian parliament (where they belong, because Kosovo is STILL part of Serbia)),Milosevic would have been overthrown long time ago. But then again that would not work in the direction for the creation of Great albania.
Again Great Albania - I am beginning to think that you are putting ideas into our heads - maybe that is what you want? That Albania becomes Great again? Plus, our parliament was dissolved by force for doing something that was within the constitution of YU. It was by force that the parliament was dissolved.
But you forgot to envy Enver Hoxha for killing so many Serbs, that’s your biggest dream, to create Serb free Balkans. But I tell you something my friend, you tried this in the Balkan wars, and you failed, then you tried in the second world war, you failed, and now you managed to clean Kosovo from Serbs. But not thanks to your mighty warriors, because we all saw what happened to UCK when they fought against the Serbian military, but with the help of drug and prostitution money which lobbied the american politicians.
Pinch yourself as you are dreaming mate - UCK was indeed beaten in some fronts, but with the Serbian stolen army from ex-YU. Now don't go telling me about drugs and prostitution. The money from that could not have been a match to your army might. But we fought with what we had, and I think we did more than enough with what we had. And in the Balkan wars, let me remind you that close to 50K Albanians were killed by your + montenegrin forces. WWII - what the hell are you on about?!?!? Are you in Amsterdam and halucinating having consumed magic mushrooms?
Get your bloody facts straight as you are really strating to get on my nerves with your ignorance.
First learn to read, and then comment. Provinces had the right to change republics, but not to become a republic itself, or to become independent. Try reading again , I am sure you will understand.
Sorry I have misread it - I apologise. But you are wrong regarding the constitution.
There are rules of how demonstrations should be held. You first need to get the permission to hold the demonstration peacefully ofcourse, and then you can hold it.
Columbo!!!
Were you in Kosova then? Or did you read it in your media? STFU!
Shush - yes my mother said to me that when I was noughty - whereas your mum slapped and kicked when you and that is why you are so stupid now.
During the Communist/Socialist Era there were no private companies, all of them were state owned. So everything came from one pocket. Whether it was Elektroprivreda Srbija or elektroprivreda Kosovo, its all being supported by the Serbian tax payers.
I am beginning to wonder if you ever lived in YU/Serbia. No they were not all state owned as a start - they were the companies of those who worked in them jointly with the state. Plus was it only Serbs that paid taxes? What the hell are you on? And the were not allways part of Elektro Privreda Serbije - you took it by force!!! Get that through your thick scull. The fund belonged to YU not to Serbia.
Who covers the insurance for Kosovo cars.
Loyds of London! And you took all our plates when we were forced out of Kosova at gunpoint - and refused to issue others after the war. So don't give me all your BS and stop complaining that the serbs do not have power when you do not let us drive through Serbia, even in an emergency.
Arguing with Mr Ivan and Other serbs is like arguing with imbeciles.
I am beginning to believe that myself. I thought that you are a bit smarter since you work for an American company - but now I wonder.
After all why are they so afraid to talk to Serbian DEMOCRATIC politicians and why didn’t you allow President Tadic to attend Rugovas funeral?
Why don't you try and anwser your own question... Or do you still need me to educate on how to use deductive reasoning?
Do you think that he was truthfull? Do you think that the politicians in Kosova have a say in that? I doubt that Rugova's family wanted an enemy to attend the funeral and I very much doubt that the international community would have allowed it. And as far as the latter is concerned - complain to them. Nothing to do with us. And be truthfull - would he have come for real or he knew for sure that he will not be allowed and that he used the excuse politically? Come one, everyone has sussed you out by now what sort of dirty politics you play.
As for all the other Albos, choose are you decendents of Illrians or Dardanians?
Who do you wish us to belong to? Why are you guys so obsessed with it? How about we came from Mars or maybe Jupiter? Is that any better?
There is one thing that I feel sorry for you guys - it is the fact that you are all going to live and die disapointed, for you have finally forever lost your right to rule Kosova. You can by all means live in it, no-one is denying you that right, but you will have to live under Kosova law. Get over it! Move on!
Sorry to dissapoint you, but all of the posts that i write are either during my lunch break or from my home. I know its the Albanian dream not to do anything and also get money for it. But keep on searching, maybe will get lucky
Are you saying that that is only Albanian dream? Don't kid yourself... or us for that matter.
BTW - you did not tell me the name of the company... I might get lucky there...
Is this how you respect human rights? Or how you respect different religions by building memorial complex of the people who burned more than 120 churches on the property of the Church. GOD SAVE EUROPE!!!!!
Maybe you should build a memorial to Hitler in a Sinagoge.
As far as this is concerned we are following the path that you serbs tought us Albanians when you built your orthodox churches on the catholic church foundations and walls...
First of all who mentioned that serbs are barbarians? But now that you do, I agree.
I have had history clases, in fact, I have had history clases tht were censured by serbs. So you may be right, I have been tought the wrong history. And that is why I am reading historians like Malcolm who is an unbiased historian.
The Albanians, came from Mars on the 18th century. Are you satisfied? You will still never rule Kosova.
BTW - I like the way you think that Bulgaria and Romania want to be associated with you. I guess they supported you by allowing NATO to use your airspace when they bombed you. And when you say montenegro supports you, I think that you are mistaken guys - they want their own indipendence - and they will get it god willing. In fact they so much 'support you' in so having adopted a different currency from yours and many other things which you know about.
See you all in a week. I am going skiing. I need to recuperate from these serbian twats.
You shat: If I get you you will wonder for the rest of your life what happened to you, IF I get you since you all hit-run-hide(UCK legacy) like any ordinary pussy. Be a man for once.
I say: I have seen you fight in two wars bitch, and you are nothing but cowards. I have seen serbs cry like little bitches in croatia and they were armed to the teeth. However, your won in balkan wars only because of russians and geopolitical games of super powers.Times up!
Mr Ivan you work for an american company? From the same country that bombed the fuck out of you? Ouch. Talk about a fucker who sold his soul for a few dollars.
thats funny and ironic how 2 serbs have the whole blog going (115 comments) especially under the topic where ppl are supposed to pay respect to their deceased leader. Do u even give a sh.. about your leader? Well if you do instead of cursing and arguing back and forth hold a minute of silence for him. And just to respect his only insiparations (independence through peace and understanding) stop this nonsense under this topic. If you are an albanian and still post under this topic to reply to instigating serbs in my book you are as bad as serb and maybe should move to Belgrade or shoot your albanian friend
"As for all the other Albos, choose are you decendents of Illrians or Dardanians? "
you mentioned this 2-3 times...stop making full of yourself and showing how big idiot you are...DARDANIANS ARE ILLIRIAN tribe, who lived in this area...hope you get this through your brain.
we might make mistakes but you do not have the right to call none in this Blog a idiot. At the end of the day we are here disccusing and expressing our opinions.
This is what you said a while back, "If you don't like driving through Serbia, than either respect the traffic rules or find another way to go to Pristina. Nobody forced you to drive through Serbia."
Like you said, if the Serbs don't like to pay their water, electricity, maintance..etc then they can all go to Vojvodina, I'd like to see them give them free everything.
Shjkijet are use to getting everything easy and free, sorry that isn't happening, Shkijet aren't control Kosova anymore. Alsomore, why do you choose selective reading? Do you remember saying "don't worry we'll just watch you murder yourself for president" [Refering to the talks]?
Looky here. " Breaking News: Fatmir Sejdiu Will Be Elected As The New President of Kosova
Learn to READ dumbass. Also look who is fighting.
"Jaksic may leave status team | 13:44 January 30 | B92 KOSOVSKA MITROVICA, BELGRADE -- Monday – Marko Jaksic is considering leaving the Belgrade Kosovo status discussion team. "
"“The treat of resigning is a well-know method of our politicians, and Jaksic is with his statements and the help of the public, trying to improve his position within the team. The ‘more about autonomy, less about independence’ formula could include 15 different solutions""
I would leave too, they should settle for Serbia having full of control of Kosova. Wait, what are the 10 points of the talk, oh yes, Kosova shall not return to its state of 1999.
National independence or freedom is a myth, a dangerous illusionn that has already cost millions of (innocent) lives and unless it is abondoned will claim many more in the (near) future. Nations cannot become free, only individuals can. To the extent that the citizens of a nation,of whatever nationality, become free, the nation is. The solution to areas of mixed ethnic populations is the hitherto unknown idea of the threefold social organism, i.e not ethnic cleansing, but social organic cleansing through applying freedom to the spiritual life (science, art and religion), equality to the rights sphere and realizing brotherhood in the economic life (through, among other things, the division of labour and circulating the means of production to those most capable of handling them), as already proclaimed at the beginning of the previous century by Rudolf Steiner, the founder of anthroposophy, in his book "The Threefold Social Order" (in German: "Die Kernpunkte der Sozialen Frage" translated under various titles, such as the Threefold Commonwealth and also into many languages). Steiner was born in 1861 in what is is now Croatia. He witnessed the break-up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire under the strain of its many nationalities all clamoring for national independence and saw at first hand the ominous developments (such as the economic tension between England and Germany) leading to to World War I, and then came up with this idea that all nationalities ought to be given complete power over their cultural life, including jurisprudence, a radical departurew from the centralized state. When this Central European idea of social organics was rejected (to be later crushed by National Socialism and Bolschevism) he developed a new form for its presentation in his lectures on World Economy(1922) that is still waiting to be explored and implemented. For the way towards attaining individual freedom, he wrote "The Philosophy of Freedom" also translated as "The Philosophy of Spiritual Activity" (in German: "Die Philosophie der Freiheit") This is the way forward, instead of looking backwards in the no doubt historically interesting past of the proud peoples on the Balkan, because this retrospective leads to murderous conflict and suppressions of minorities: it is a blind alley, a dead end. This new perspective does not, however, end all conflict, but raises it from the physcial level to the cultural sphere, where as a sort of "New Olympic Games of the Spirit" delegates from the national cultures can compete against each other to determine who makes the most beautiful music, sculptures and buildings, and who forwards the best ideas for the common good of all humanity and the environment on earth.
To those servians who question the Illyrian-Albanian link can they tell me where the name Albania comes from? Weren't Albans an Illyrian tribe? How about the ancient Illyrian names Gent, Teuta, Bardhyl, Agron how did they get to this day? I'm most certain there are no servian people with these names. There are facts of slavic people coming down from Urals and steppes in the VII century, or you don't agree even on that? If we Albanians came long after you, as you say, where is this writen or documented? Such movements would have been documented somewhere since this brings about displacement of other populations and wars. We have always been there and we were no news. You can read "the Alabanians" George Fred Williams, 1914. He was the American Minister to Montenegro and Greece. He explains linguisticly the meaning of greek gods in Illyrian (Albanian). I can give you one of many examples Aphrodita- Af(ph)er dita(near day) or dawn. There is no expalnation of greek gods in the greek, as greeks borrowed them from this older poulations called Illyrs. See the lingustic tree published in 1974 from Swedish Institute of Languages, showing the Albanian as the oldest Indo-Europian language. It's understandable you have an identity crisis, and inferiority complex. Talking about religion, you first were pagans, and became Christians and then Muslims (Bosnia), so we in part from Christian became Muslims. What's the difference? You changed we changed. You became Christians only in theory since in practice you remained barbarians. Isn't Christianity all about peace and brotherhood? Read the austrian journalist Leo Freundlich, Edith Durham and more regarding your attrocities and how you brag about them. It's very "Christian" of you. Albanians in Kosova were Crypto-Catholics in many cases. They kept their faith but changed their name or last name just for appearance. They had the Catholic priests going to their houses and giving them mass. And latter on remaining Muslim meant to them being different from the hatred invader the Orthodox serbs, just a reaction to your ways of "Christianity"
54 comments:
can anyone give me an albanian source from prior to the 19th century that cliams u are illirian?
This is a topic about the mourning of the Kosova's president.But there is a yugoslut in here that wants to know about the illyrian origins of Albanians.Almost every week one of this dickheads shows up acting all smart asking about facts about our origins.Once again I am going to give you the facts why you serbs cannot accept the illyrian origins of Albanians.It comes from a slavic historian.You then show me that you slavic people were natives of the Balkans,were you are claiming the land.
THE QUESTION OF ILLYRIAN-ALBANIAN CONTINUITY AND ITS POLITICAL TOPICALITY TODAY
Dr.Alexander STIPCEVIC
The question has for years been obscured by political arguments that have frequently prevailed over academic ones. Of course, this is not the first such case in history. On the contrary, it is enough to recall the way in which Italian archaeologists at the time of fascism attempted to justify Mussolini’s conquests in the Mediterranean basin, how the Greeks today exploit data for the sake of their plans to annex Northern Epirus, and how the Serbs claim that any place where Serbian monuments or graves are found must belong to the Serbian state.
There is no need to recall other similar cases, for those we have mentioned suffice to show how archaeologists have placed their skills at the behest of national politics and ideology. Serbian archaeology and historiography have subjected the Albanians in general to such treatment, especially in Kosova.
After World War II, but especially after the serious events in Kosova in 1981, Serbian archaeologists set to work to refute the theory of the Illyrian ethnic of Albanians.
They are indeed not the first to cast doubt over the historical continuity between the Illyrians and the Albanians. Some specialists, especially Germans, including C. Pauli, H. Hirt, G. Mayer, and F. Cordignano , raised the question of the origin of the Albanian language and the Albanians in general. On the basis of what they considered to be scientific data they drew conclusions that disagreed with the theory that the Albanians are an indigenous population. Even though we do not today agree with their conclusions, we must emphasise that their arguments had no political or still less anti-Albanian overtones, and that they must be taken into consideration with proper seriousness when the problem of the ethnogenesis of the Albanians is discussed.
The politicisation of the problem that was later to become the hallmark of Serbian archaeology and historiography began with the Croat linguist Henrik Baric, who had close ties with Serbian academic and political circles. (6) Baric was a very capable linguist, but the motives impelling him to formulate his Thraco-Moesian theory of the origin of the Albanians remain dubious. His theory rests on linguistic data. The fact that the same linguistic material can be used in support of such diverse theories may alarm any student approaching this problem. Without denying linguists their right to formulate their conclusions on the basis of linguistic material, we must say that there also exist today a large quantity of archaeological, anthropological, ethnological, and ethnomusicological data. The large amount of research in recent decades has thus made it much easier today to tackle the problem of the ethnic origins of the Albanians than 50 or 100 years ago. The result achieved by workers in different disciplines in recent decades have reduced the importance of the work that relied on now obsolete linguistc evidence, and have made the autochthony of the Albanians, i.e. increasingly indisputable.
This conflict between new scientific result and the defenders of now obsolete theories is a phenomenon that can be explained by the increasing politicisation of the issue of Albanian ethnogenesis. In fact, the theory of Albanian autochthony has never been disputed with such determination and savagery as today, precisely when so much scientific proof has been produced in its support. Nevertheless, the number of researchers still today refusing to take into consideration the many arguments supplied by different academic disciplines has shrunk, or, more accurately, absolutely the only researchers who deny the theory of Albanian autochthony are Serbian. (7) Serbian archaeologists and historians began long ago to dispute the autochthony theory, but this opposition increased especially after the great Albanian revolt in Kosova in 1981. It was therefore a consequence of a political event rather than of new scientific data.
The Serbian archaeologist Milutin Garasanin represents a special case. In 1955, he wrote an article in the Prishtina periodical "Përparimi", in which he asserted that the Albanians are the direct descendants of the Illyrians. ( In the years that followed, Garasanin increasingly fell into line with other Serbian researchers who denied any such descent. This shift became still more evident in connection with the problem of the ethnic allegiance of the Dardanians, who inhabited the Kosova region. This problem became one of the most disputed in archaeology and history, assuming apolitical character after 1981. The Serbs vigorously attacked the idea that the Dardanians were ethnically Illyrian. Not because they were led to this conclusion by scientific evidence, but purely because Kosova was "the cradle of Serbian history" and "holy soil" for the Serbs, and as such could not have been inhabited by a people that were of Illyrian stock and hence claimed by their descendants, the Albanians.
In the past, Serbian researchers had not always been of one mind in allocating the Kosova region to the ancient Daco-Moesians. Milutin Garasanin himself, in his survey of prehistoric Serbia in 1973, openly admits that on the basis of their place names and personal names the Dardanians can be considered Illyrians, and that a Thracian and perhaps Dacian element is evident only in the eastern parts of their territories. (9)
However, when the Serbian Academy of Arts and sciences in 1986 organized a series of conferences on the ties between the Illyrians and the Albanians, this same Garasanin announced that the Dardanians cannot be considered Illyrians because they were ethnically more closely connected with the Daco-Moesian substratum. (10)
It is easy to explain this change in Garasanin’s stand. We are now in a period of history in which relations between the Albanians and Serbs of Kosova, and not only within this region, have dramatically deteriorated and no Serbian researcher can freely express his opinion over the Illyrian-Albanian question without exposing himself to the danger of changes of high treason.
It would be impossible to trace here the progress of the press, television, and radio campaign waged by Serbian researchers against the idea of Albanian autochthony. It is enough to recall an entertaining incident in this campaign which took place in Zagreb in 1982. Two years previously, in 1980, the first volume of the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia (Secon Edition) had been published, in which there were two entries, one entitled "Albanci" (Albanians), and the other "Albansko-Jugoslavenski odnosi" (Albanian-Yugoslavian relations). On pages 75-79, the Albanian historian from Kosova, Ali Hadri, had written the part of the entry under "Albanci" that dealt with "the origin and development of the Albanian people," in which he stated that the Albanians are the descendants of the Illyrians. The linguist Idriz Ajeti said the same, considering the Albanian language a successor to the Illyrian tongue.
When this volume had come off the press, the Albanian revolt in Kosova had broken aut, and when the Serbian edition of this same book was under preparation, the Serbian representatives on the Encyclopaedia’s central editorial board rejected the text that had already been published in the Croat edition (which they themselves had approved), and insisted that the two entries should be reformulated according to the ideas of Serbian historians. A long and bitter debate then took place within the editorial board, and was soon reflected in the Zagreb and Belgrade newspapers.(11) Ten contributions from historians and archaeologist were commissioned in order to prepare new versions of these entries.
At that time, the Serbian members of the editorial board could not impose their ideas on others. This meant that the new version that was printed in subsequent editions of the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia included textual changes in the sections dealing all mention of the continuity between the Illyrians and Albanians.(12)
Although unable to change what had already been published in the Croat edition, the publisher of the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia printed the new versions of the two entries and sent them to subscribers, requesting them to insert them in the appropriate place.
The debate within the Encyclopaedia’s editorial board was also echoed in political circles. At the ninth Congress of the Serbian Communist Party held in Belgrade on 27-29 May 1982, a bitter argument broke out over the ethnic origins of the Albanians. The congress of a political party was of course not the proper place to discuss an academic problem of this kind, but the question had apparently assumed a political character and could not be confined to academic circles.
It was nothing les than the incident involving the two entries in the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia that became the spark setting off this unexpected debate at the Serbian Communist Party: Congress. The Albanian linguist Idriz Ajeti referred to this scandalous incident in his speech in order to show that many Serbian researchers and journalists were politicising the issue to the extent that only a political forum could settle it, by political means.
Disgusted by the assaults of the newspapers, Professor Ajeti movingly defended at this congress the theory of the linguistic ties between the Illyrian and Albanian languages, and also the ethnic continuity between the Illyrians and the Albanians (13).
His speech met with an immediate response in the congress hall.
Pretending not to understand why a purely academic problem should become a discussion topic at a political congress, the Serbian historian Jovan Deretic asked in pathetic tones what point there was in politicising the question of the Albanians’ ethnic origin.
Why should the Albanians be the descendants of the Illyrians and not of the Thracians ? There was no point in dragging this question out of its academic context – on condition that the Thracian theory was accepted. The Illyrian theory could not be correct, simply because it was an _expression of Albanian imperialism, nationalism, etc. (14) According to Deretic, the Illyrian theory had "a slight whiff of racism" that reminded him of the theory of a pure Aryan race, "and we know very well who inspired that theory." (15) Immediately after Deretic, Petar Zivadinovic took the floor. Zivadinovic was elected a member of the Central Committee of the Serbian Communist Party at this congress. For him, science had still not solved the problem of the ethnic origins of the Albanians, but, although he had never dealt with such academic questions, he knew very well that the Albanians could not be descended from the Illyrians.
The historian Sima Cirkovic also though that the Illyrian theory "stank of racism." (16)
The newspapers at this time were full of articles about the speeches at the conference. "Politika," a Belgrade newspaper with little tolerance for the Albanians, published an article under the headline, "No Campaign, But Creative Criticism."
This newspaper apparently did not stop to consider that this stream of articles written by people who did more to compromise these authors than the Illyrian theory of the ethnic origin of the Albanians.
The book "The Albanians and Their Territories," published by the Albanian Academy of Sciences in Tirana in 1982, and in an English edition in 1985, caused considerable commotion. Albanian authors from Kosova were attacked especially harshly because their work demonstrated the autochthony of the Albanians in the province of Kosova. (17)
These authors attempted in vain to explain that all the articles included in this volume had been previously published in Yugoslavia and were therefore common knowledge long before the book appeared. (1 The attacks persisted because this book discussed what was the most delicate political problem in Kosova.
The campaign against the Illyrian theory intensified alongside the progressive deterioration of the political situation in Kosova. Serbia’s best-known historians appeared on the scene, including the linguist Pavle Ivic, who proceeded to ruin a large part of his own scientific work in order to prove that Serbian and Croatian are a single language. He had never tackled the problems of the Illyrians or Albanians, but it nevertheless emerged that the Albanians could only be of Thracian, not Illyrian origin.
In an interview for the Belgrade weekly NIN, Professor Ivic listed the linguists who have considered the Albanian language a descendant of Thracian and then recalled the well-known but now obsolete argument that the Albanians could not have lived on the Adriatic and Ionian coast, because they possessed word for fish.
According to Professor Ivic, the problem of the Illyrian origin of the Albanians is complicated, but there is nevertheless no question of any doubt that the Albanians are not descendants of the Illyrians and are therefore not indigenous to the province of Kosova. This is precisely what the journalist interviewing him and the magazine’s readers wanted to hear. (19)
A controversy then sprang up in the pages of this magazine between Professor Ivic, Mehmet Hyseni, and Shkelzen Maliqi. (20)
On one hand, all this controversy and debate encouraged the Albanians to study more deeply the problem of their ethnic origin from the archaeological and ethnographic point of view, while it drove Serbian researchers to the point of denying the results of their own work. In 1982, when this problem had become an inflammatory one in what was then Yugoslavia, the Academy of Sciences in Albania organised a national conference on the formation of the Albanian people, their language, and culture. At this conference, which was attended by many foreign historians, many specialists tried to present all the evidence that their different academic disciplines could offer to solve the problem of Illyrian-Albanian continuity. (21)
As in reply to this conference, the Serbs had the idea of organising in Belgrade, under the auspices of the Serbian Academy of Arts and Sciences, a series of conferences that were to tackle problems also dealt with in Tirana. The conferences, that were attended solely by Serbian historians, took place in May and June 1986. Their papers were later published in a book, in Serbian and French editions. (22)
A careful reading of the contributions of Ms. F. Papazoglu and Professor M. Garasanin reveals at least a kind of uncertainty in their arguments. These writers sometimes even imply that they do not favour an unconditional rejection of the Illyrian theory of the Albanians’ ethnic origin.
Of course, writers of propaganda have paid no attention to the academic evidence, and have not grasped these authors’ doubts, but only the evidence that suit their anti-Albanian campaign. Aware of the simplification which the complicated problem of the Albanians’ ethnic origins had undergone, professor Garasanin was careful to point out that the Albanians are undoubtedly a palaeo-Balkan people and that the Illyrian element played a part, albeit a minor one, in their formation.
Garasanin asserted that there can be no question of a direct continuity between the Illyrians and the Albanians, because the Illyrians disappeared from history during the five centuries of Roman occupation. The Albanians are therefore a people who were formed in the middle ages from small remnants of peoples, including the Illyrians, who inhabited the western Balkans in classical and mediaeval times.
There is no need to continue. However, we would like to end by emphasising that the misrepresentations of the Serbian academic community in connection with the ethnic origin of the Albanians are part of a long and painful story of abuses of this kind, which have been nothing but political propaganda paving the way for military repression. This is the meaning of the way for military repression. This is the meaning of the campaign by Serbian historians and journalists against the autochthony of the Albanians in the lands they inhabit.
References:
"Oratio fratris Vincentii Priboevii sacrae theologiae professoris ordinis praedicatorum De origine successibusque slavorum, "Venetiis, 1532. Modem bilingual (Latin and Croatian) edition by Professor Grga Novak (Vinko Pribojevic, "O podrijetlu i zgidama Slavena," Zagreb, Jugoslovenska akademija znanosti i umjetnosti, 1951. Compare Pribojevic’s ideas on pan-slavism with Professor Novak’s introduction to his 1951 edition, and to Alois Schmaus, "Vincentius priboevius, ein Vorlaeufer der Panslavismus," in "Jahrbuecher fuer die Geschichte Osteuropas," I, 1952, pp. 243-254; Veljko Gortan, Sizgoric i Pribojevic," "Filologija," 2, 1959, pp. 149-152.
The history of the illyrian idea among the slavs has been written Reinhard Lauer, "Genese und Funktion des Illyrischen Ideologems in den suedslawischen Literaturen, 16. Bis anfang des 19. Jahrhunderts," in "Ethnogenese und Staatsbildung in Suedosteuropa," Klaus-Detlev Grothusen, Goettingen, 1974, pp. 116-143.
Ljudevit Gaj, "Tko su bili stari Iliri?," "Danica ilirska," 5 (1839), Nr.10, pp.37-39; Nr.11, pp.41-43; Nr.12, pp. 46-48; Nr. 13, pp. 49-51; Nr.15, pp. 58-59.
For example, S. Popovic, "Skiti, Iliri, Slavi," in "Letopis Matice srpske," 64 (1844) pp. 67-80.
Bogoslav Sulek, "Sta namjeravaju Iliri?" Beograd, 1844. See the historical commentary on this pamphlet by Antun Barac, Hrvatska knjizevnist, I. Knjizevnost ilirizma, zagreb. Jugoslovenska akademija znanosti i umjetnosti, 1954, pp. 43-44, etc.
See his studies, "Ilirske jezicne studije," Rad. JAZU knj.272, 1948, pp.157-208; "Poreklo Arbanasa u svetlu jezika," in "Lingvisticke studije," Sarajevo, 1954, pp.7-48; "Mbi origjinen e gjuhës shqipe," "Jeta e re." 4, 1952, Nr.3, pp. 205-211.
There are exceptions, e.g. Slobodan Jovanovic, "Jugosloveni i Albanci," "Ideje: Casopis za teoriju savremenog drustva," 1987, Nr. 5-6, pp. 181-185.
Milutin Garasanin, "Ilirët dhe prejardhja e tyre," "Përparimi," 1953, Nr.6, pp. 323-331.
Milutin Garasanin, "Preistorija na tlu SR Srbije," vol.II, Beograd, Srpska knjizevna zadruga, 1973, p. 523.
Milutin Garasanin, "Zakljucna razmatranja," in: "Iliri i Albanci," Beograd, 1988, p. 362.
Ibro Osmani, "Dogovor o spornim tekstovima?," "Vjesnik," 19 June 1982, p.17; Ibro Osmani, "Kriterium i vetem – ai shkencor," "Rilindja," 19 June 1982, p. 12; Milos Misovic, "Kuda ide Jugoslavija?" "NIN," Nr. 1,678, 27 February 1983, p.31-32.
The Prishtina historian Ali Hadri strongly rejected the objections raised by the Serbian group on the editorial board in a long reply that was published in Albanian under the title "Reply to Comments on the Historical Text of the Entries "Albanians," and "Albanian-Yugoslav Relations" in the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia," published in the review "Kosova," Nr.11, 1982, pp.217-259. A summary of this text was published in the Zagreb weekly "Danas," Nr. 16, 8 June 1982, p. 14.
His report was published in prishtina: "Mbi origjinen ilire të gjuhës shqipe," "Rilindja," 29 May 1982, p.14.
Jovan Deretic, "Cemu sve to sluzi?," "Danas," Nr. 16,8 June 1982, pp. 62-63.
This assertion was strongly criticised by the Croat writer Ivan Lovrenovic in his article, "Miris kao kriterij," "Danas," Nr. 17, 15 June 1982, p. 17.
For further information about this dispute, see Teodor Andjelic, "Ilirsko-albanske enigma," "NIN," Nr. 1,640, 6 June 1982, pp. 30-32.
Milos Misovic, "Grehovi i gresnici," "NIN," Nr. 1,660, 24 November 1982, pp. 16-17.
Provodom knjige "Albanci i njihova ognjista," "NIN," Nr. 1,665, 28 November 1982, p. 2.p.
Milo Gligorijevic, "Albanija i Kosovo: seobei teritori," "NIN," Nr. 1,664, 21 November 1982, pp. 32-35.
Mehmet Hyseni, "Za nauku, bez spekulacija," "NIN," Nr. 1,666, 5 December 1982, pp. 2-3; Shkelzen Maliqi, "Mistifikacija istoriografije," "NIN," Nr. 1,667, 12 December 1982, pp. 3, 6; Pavle Ivic, "Naucna tastina radi osporovanja nauke," "NIN," Nr. 1,667, 12 December 1982, pp. 6, 19;Pavle Ivic, "Istorijski mitovi i indoktrinacija," "NIN," Nr. 1,671, 9 January 1983, pp. 6,13; Shkelzen Maliqi, "Mistifikacija istoriografije," "NIN," Nr. 1,673, 23 January 1983, pp. 2-3; Pavle Ivic, "Pravo nauke na istinu," "NIN," Nr. 1,675, 6 February 1983, p.19.
The papers of this conference were published in French, "Problemes de la formation du peuple albanais, de sa langue et de sa culture (Choix de documents), " Tirana, Editions "8 Nëntori," 1985.
Iliri i Albanci – Les Illyriens et les Albanais, Beograd, Srpska akademija nauka i umetnosti, 1988.
u hope i die etc? what kind of people say things like this? i was putting together a memorial for rugova and iwanted to trace his illirain roots. 500 years of the turks? were they not your best friends? i mean did you not tek their religion (where the sword lies religion?) were their officer ranks in the ottoman army not 60% albanian? and to the first responder thank you for posting that, but again I dont think that u understood my question, the question was: can you please show me a ALBANIAN source from prior to the 19TH CENTURY that makes the illiran claim (that is prior to the century in which the albanians saw first the Croats then Serbs make the "illirian" claim first). please and thank you. i am waiting to finsih my memorial, sorry for rugova (he was very funny casue he looked like roberto bengini and he was hilarious at the milosevic trial with his answers, www.domovina.net watch it really funny oscar winning performance. the funniest was when he refused to say kosovo was part of serbia while on his hauge profile it said he came from: prishtina, serbia. only an albaniac....
quote:
Well considering albanians were not allowed to study in their own language or have schools of any kind, bc the Ottoman Turks forbade it, for 500+ yrs, I think it would be hard to give you a source.
question:
didnt the serbs live live under the most brutal laws of the ottomans for 500 years while preserving the epic stories of the Kosovo battle and continutiy of their culture verbally amongst its people (hiding from the turks)? did they not keep their religion and not accept the faith of their occupiers (as only leeches would do)? u know the answers to this. if the albos were the desendents of the great illirians you wuld have had a continuity of culture even stronger through-out the 500 years of the turks, but u didnt for one simple reason - u are not illirians.
still waiting for a response, please help...funny how it is so hard to find an albo source from prior to the 19th century that cliams ur great illiran past.
again i am patientlly awaiting an albo source from prior to the 19th cent. that claims ur illirian decent?
oh and by the way the serbs fled cause the turks saw them as their biggest enemy in the balkans, a people who faught them harder than anyone in the region a people who did not convert and whos entire nation was exposed to the albanian/turkish killing machine (i mean u should be glad that the serbs fled kosovo because u were never there before that, the sheephearders came down from the mountain "mr. topograpghy" and they were your grandfathers. oh and 1 more question: weren't the core of officers (60%) of the ottoman army albanian??????? (not mention all the other albos who ruled land all over for the turks, muhamed ali etc) WOW GREAT "RESISTANCE" HAHAHAHAH!!!
^^ Idiot!
still waiting...
Get laid!
Does it matter to Serbs if Albanians are from Illyrians or Thracians or Vikings?? What should matter to them is that their troops will never again set foot in Kosova. Our resolve is even greater after loosing our dear President. Now it really has to be an Independet Sovereign state just as he repeated it over and over. He is Kosovar Ataturk, our George Washington.His life was not in vain he will live forever!
We had no state before the 19th century or even during it, that's why it's hard to find an albanian source that claims that we are illyrians. The appropriation of the past is a 19th century phenomenon. You can still refer to our language which is quite relevant about our illyrian origin.
Albanian is only written since the 12th century and by a really few people. Mass letration is to be considered from about the beginning of the 20th century.
All what you consider that makes a national identity like traditional clothes and folklore and all that stuff was created in the 19th century. The national identity is something very artificial and that's why we albanians have no really strong national feeling through theese aspects but you serbs have one essentially because you had a state during the 19th century. It's a chance for us because we do not live in a huge lie like the other people of euurope do. We have a national feeling through our language which is something clear and relevant,it has been developped during centuries by a few scholars partly living in Italy and in the Sardaigna island.
If you really want to read about albanians from an albanian source before 18 century I sugest to go and read Marin Barleti who wrote between the 14-15th century.
Good luck
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_Barleti
this is the link for wikipedia and you will find info about him.
Good luck
There were 10000 albanians killed and 90% of the population deported by the serbian terroristic and genocidal state during the 1999.So when we kill 10001 serbs and deport 91% of the serbian population you are going to have the moral right to bitch about it.Till then we should show you the same love that you showed us.
As for the proof of the Albanian-Illyrian connection,read this.
The Serbian archaeologist Milutin Garasanin represents a special case. In 1955, he wrote an article in the Prishtina periodical "Përparimi", in which he asserted that the Albanians are the direct descendants of the Illyrians. ( In the years that followed, Garasanin increasingly fell into line with other Serbian researchers who denied any such descent.
So find that 1955 article from "Perparimi" and read it.We albanians
have no doubts about our illyrian origins.Like we have no doubts about the iranian origins of serbian or other slavic people.
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/common_origin_croats_serbs_jats.php
Cvijus
those belgians and germans are xenophobic, same as serbians. (greeks are the most xenophobic of all according to polls).
Because Daniel Server says something, that doesnt mean it will happen. I dont know what terrorists you are talking about. No terrorists can come to power in Kosovo.
If you are talking about former KLA leaders (which are not terrorists but freedom fighters) then I have bad news for you. They are already in power. LDK is in coalition with AAK, led by Ramush Haradinaj.
To the anonymous who is asking the question "can anyone give me an albanian source from prior to the 19th century that cliams u are illirian?"
This is a stupid question. Why? Because no research has been done before the 19th century on that issue, neither by Albanians nor anyone. This question is the same as saying "Give me a source from prior to 19th century that claims that Troy existed in modern Turkey". There is no source for that because no one ever bothered to look for Troy before that.
The Albanians never felt the need to assert their Illyrian ancestry, until the attacks from the Slavs on that issue became widespread. You should be asking yourself, why you keep asking stupid questions.
To the last poster
Serbs are a combination of Slavs and an Iranian tribe calles "Serbs". So the name Serb is iranian and the people are a mix. (Same goes for Croatians)
Illyrianboy
Dear Ivan,
you as an idiot and your idiotic provocations can't do any harm to us anymore...Idiot is not a perfect word to describe you, but let´s leave it like that...serbians provoked us during the 80s and 90s...the reason was simple...they tried to start a war with albanians and cleans Kosova...but the war started in the 1999...wasn´t the perfect timing ...Usa wasn´t fighting terrorism...they had time to deal with your terrorist country...and now they have invested to much to leave the job unfinished...the things that you said about the albanians in europe are not true...we have a bad image but you have a worse one...I live in Europe and I know some things about here better than you...and Usa is supporting the rightious demands of albanians, so other country´s don´t count...Usa is Empire these days...
The only thing you can hope is Usa to fall as an Empire...
make an idiotic wish you dear idiot...
Hey Ivan and Cvijus
I am writing to tell you guys that it was me who wrote the post before and you assumed that I was anonymous. But if you read the post you see that I signed it with "Illyrianboy" at the end. I guess that just proves how stupid you guys are. You can't even read properly.
Your posts are really childish.
I wonder where did the first ANONYMOUS poster go who was asking questions about Illyrians. I guess he didnt like my response, so now he disappears. (By the way Ivan, as you can see everything you said about writing anonymously applies to your SERBIAN friend, ironic ha?)
Illyrianboy
HELLOOO Look above. There, I signed the post. Can you see?
stupid Ivan, you made me write again.
If Albanians dont have electricity, how the fuck are they supposed to create electricity for the serbs only. They are on the same boat.
And let me remind you that it was the Serbian government who didnt allow macedonian trucks with fuel to pass through serbian territory (tabanovce) to go to Kosovo. They were hoping to plunge Kosovo into an energy crisis. Good idea. But it didnt work, cos fuel is coming with the trains.
cvijus
your intelligence is too low to judge the intelligence of my posts.
illyrianboy
hey stupid ivan, it was not Heki, it was me who wrote the post. you are really stupid. i had written the previous post and than I wrote "again". you are really stupid. PATHETIC!
Cvijus
all your posts are stupid, insensitive, ignorant.
Illyrianboy
Cvijus and Ivan need to get laid.
Will somebody start a paypal account so we can donate into it and get them a hooker?
Wow, on the subject of "Kosovo Mourns the Loss of President Rugova" there are 57 comments most of which have nothing to do with the loss of President Rugova.
People especially Albanians, do not get provoked so easy just pay your respects and move on. Serbs do the same, and if you can't just move on to a blogg where people might care as to what your opinions are on Illyrians or the perception of whom ever, where ever.
End this nonsense NOW. DO NOT REPLY TO PETTY, DISRESPECTFUL COMMENTS.
Trolls http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling, that's what the Serbians here are. You know how you defeat a troll? You stop feeding it.
'a teenager is someone between 16 -19'
Ivan, just for your info and to educate your sorry souls a little bit - a teenager is someone from 13-19 (thirteen -nineteen.
And well done, you can count - did you use an abacus? or did your use your fingers and toes?
Shype, a keni vakt me u marre me keta njerez a? Nejse, s'jane njerz po u desht diqysh me ju thane... :-)
Xythi
Ivan,
I wonder if you know which part of Kosova is the 'Metohija'? I mean I am sure you can read and ask around, but be truthfull if you can and tell me from the top of your head.
And another thing - stop blaming everything on the Milsevic and the regime. A bit of a lesson on how things work - a regime is made of people that were elected by the people - now don't tell me you were the biggest victims of the regime. Come on, you were, or rather the serbs in Kosovo, enjoying the life that no other nation new. By killing and oppresing the Albanians for what they had - the freedom of speach. By the way, why did you overthrow your Milosevic regime? Because you could not stand the oppression? Is that right? That is exactly why we fought - because the peacefull demonstrations were met with the brutality of the serbian police and army. I guess you would not know these things and it is because your media did not report them. Get the facts straight and then start arguing...
About apologising - here it goes - I apologise in the name of Albanians that we have killed Serbs in Kosova after 1999. Did that satisfy you? Have the problems now been solved?
Apologosing is easy, making it hapen is something else. Apologising means that you return all of Albanian bodies that are still in mass graves in Serbia. Apologising means that you have to return all the wealth stolen from Kosova which include the archives as well as historical artifacts (which prove that we are the descendants of Illyrians).
Apologising is to start respecting our culture, no matter how 'primitive' you might think it is.
Apologising is to finally accept that you have lost power in Kosova and that you will only be treated as equal as everybody else.
Crimes happen everywhere - and yes, there are criminals who kill serbs and indeed Albanians. But I am pretty sure that there are Serbs that kill each other - and I doubt that they are branded as terrorists... Do you actually know the definition of the word terrorist?
In one of the comments I read that there is a baker in Belgrade who is Albanian. I have a cousin in Belgrade, whose mother is Serb and Father Albanian - and when she came to Kosova she said that she is not being treated good in Belgrade, for her name is Albanian.
Now get to grips with reality and stop offending Kosovars and Albanians because you are not superior to any other nation in the world. In fact you are inferior, or have grown to be so.
Additionally, I work with a Serb in Prishtina, and he is a good lad and he travels freely from a village in Gjilan to Prishtina every day. Has he complained? No. We go out for drinks now and again, go out to lunch together. We have gone past the hatred phase. I recommend that you do so to.
Serbs can freely move in Kosova if they want to, it is your media, your papers and tv's that spread lies (I guess because of the Milosevic regime!?!?). Have you ever been in Kosova? Do you know what it looks like or do you still believe your media that Albanians live in trees? If it is the latter, then god help you, although I think that it is a lost cause.
Guys, I can see that you are trying to prove to yourselves that you are better then Albanians - and for insignificant people like you, than so be it.
And about the killings of serbs in Kosova - how can you convince a person whose family has been wiped out of the face of the earth by the serbs, not to retaliate? That person is probably living with rage every day, and will probably be a disturbed person, so he will grab every chance that he has to retaliate - I am sure you would do the same.
btw - Heki said it quite well, 'Quid pro Qou' - but you did not understand it. Ask your parents what it means.
see you
Xythi
t
please ignore all comments out of context of ivan and cvijus for the sake of the this moment
I congratulate you for the courage for writting such nonsense. what freedoms did the serbs have? what freeedoms did the serbs have that albanians didnt have? give me a break, we did not have freedom of speech either. All the TV and radio stations that were opposing milosevic were either shut down or were under strict supervision. If Otpor memeber were tortured and anybody who wanted to succed in Serbia had to become a memebr of either SPS or JUL. Give me a break, if anybody should trial milosevic its the serbs.
A simple question needs a simple answer: Did you have the right/freedom to learn in your onw language? The University in Prishtina was closed to the Albanians - we could not study in Albanian. Our secondary schools were closed to Albanian classes - i.e. we had to learn in establishments such as private houses. Was this freedom denied to you?
The secondary schools and Prishtina university was open to serb students only and in serbian only. A lo tof Kosovar Albanians had to leave Kosova in search for a better future elsewhere in Europe - because our parents did not have any jobs. They were dismissed for not wanting to sign to be a part of milosevics regime. Read a bit more and stop beliving what your media tought you even though it was under Milosevic's regime. Get your facts right. I know that you were oppressed as well but not to the extent that the Albanians were.
And one more thing - you have very selective reading. At no point did I say that I approve of the killings. My uncle was killed and another one was imprisoned together with his two sons in Serbia where he was killed. And for that reason, according to you, I should have done the same instead of talking here to you. But that is not the case. All I said was that the war has scarred some people who go on and retaliate. I also told you that I work with a serbian guy and we go out for coffee and lunch. Should I have killed him by now?
Plus stop comparing Belgrade to the rest of Serbia. Belgrade is a big city and not many give a shit about politics. And I met several serbs who work in Belgrade that came to visit Kosova. They say it is fine here - we went out and entertained them. Spoke serbian and it didn't even turn anybody's head.
And about my cousin? Of course she came to Prishtina and was able to do so. Where is the problem there? She was able to go back to Belgrade as well wasn't she? What is that argument about? She can't speak a word of Albanian - and for that reason she would have, according to you, been killed for speaking serbian. Instead she had a good time.
And nobody is talking about bood feud. Who said anything about that? It's a spur of the moment... and those that killed serbs have been arrested and they were all individuals. Maybe they don't know better because they didn't have a chance to be educated because the serbs closed the schools? Could that be a possibility? Use some 'deductive resoning' to why those things happened.
Come one, if your police/army/regime was bad to you guys what do you think it was to us?
And I am not saying that all serbs are bad, am I? So why are you branding all Albanians to be terrorists?
Is that how you are tought at school?
What is wrong with you? Why do you hate Albanians so much?
And you didn't answer my question - do you know where Metohija is? Or you use that because it was Milosevic who referred to it as 'Kosovo and Metohija'? Is that how YOU apologise? Is that how YOU want to go forward to joing Europe?
Do you deny that you do not want to lose Kosovo because of your dream for Greater Serbia? Or Montenegro for that reason? Does your most famous patriotic song go like this: 'Who is lying that Serbia is small, it isn't - it has grown thrice, and who lies that serbia doesn't have [access to] sea - it has montenegro?' Isn't that your dream?
We did not participate in your elections because our parliament (asembly) was dismissed - who would I had to vote for? Draskovic or Seselj?
Get real!!! Read a bit more.
please ignore all comments out of context of ivan and cvijus for the sake of the this moment
I know I should let him be and I should not try to educate him, but I am getting a bit annoyed with his ignorance and selective reading.
Xythi
To Mir.
There is no albanian in this world expecting any love from the serbs.So we don't care if Mir or all the serbian nation doesn't like us. How do you know that in an independent kosova,will be no economic prosperity? Who are you Adam Smith?
To cvijus.
You listed all the historic and cultural aspects that make serbia and serbian nation respected in the world.Then how come this people that respect you and like you so much Bombed the shit out of your country in 1999? And don't blame it on Clinton or Blair or the West.
To Ivan.
You are a dickhead.Are you flattering yourself because Russia ,Bulgaria,Greece like you?Slavic people have always been our public enemy number one,from the times that they showed their faces in the balkans.So there is nothing new in there.Greece has a lot of territorial disputes with us so the orthodox brotherhood comes in handy in this case.you can make up all the shit that you want about the Albanians,but We have never committed genocide against other people.You killed 250 000 people and caused 4 wars in the nineties.The civilized world had to bomb your primitive species.
Just because a few select albanians or serbs have killed innocent ppl, how does that make the whole nation cruel and with no morals?
Just because a few serbs or albanians cannot make proof-sounded arguements, how does that make the whole nation stupid and/or ignorant?
How can you say that you wish that all serbs or albanians die (including women and children) and then make a comment about someone's morality?
Also the most ridiculous thing for Albanians to argue is that European countries like....they must realize that they are viewed the same way as Mexicans in US.
Likewise, it is ridiculous for the serbs, or any nationality for that matter, to argue that the Albanians didn't descend from Illyrians. Many scholars (who thats all they research all their life) have already established the link which is also accepted by the international scientific community based simply on evidence without any political bias.
Now who are yall (whether Serb or Albanian) to discuss the genealogy of a nation. Where is your doctorate degree or publications in respected journals to back up your credentials as a scholar?
So according to your logic Mir if that article shows albanian primitivism then all the facts about serbian genocide,concentration camps,masive graves,infanticide,deportation, show how evolved you serbs are. So now for us albanians to become evolved like you serbs should first kill 10 000 serbs and deport the rest from kosova,like you did with us.
How can you claim that the Serb population is responsible for genocide? How can you imply that the Albanian population is primitive? Its the same as saying that all apples have worms in them, just becuase one of them happened to have one.
There are primitive people in every country in the world (US included). There are people that are comitting genocide as I write this piece, and these ppl are from the most developed countries in the world.
Enough with the back and forth arguments because it is getting ridicoulous to the point that one is even claiming that an article from a respected newssource (that doesnt really give a damn about Albania or Kosovo) is a forgery...and that is done on purpose. Dude! Thats ridiculous. You know paranoya is sign of the onset of schizophrenia
...would you please stop replying to these serbian ssluts already..they do not deserve or merit any of our time or effort...Kosova will be independent soon or later and once it is we will build a Troy like wall around the border so we never have to deal with your 'kind' anymore...notice the emphasis on the word 'kind' because you are surely not human....so go away and live miserably with the fact that you are serbian and stuck with it and that you will always be associated with genocide and slaughter of the innocent....
Ivan,
I congratulate you on your research abilities re Metohija. I asked you to tell me from the top of your head - not to go and research. But well done. Although it is not correct, but anyway.
Re: Your patriotic song - I know what it was like - but I also remember how serbs in Kosova sang it when they came to celebrate the lost war 600 years ago in Gazimestan for I was in Prishtina at that time. And they broadcasted it in every station in the 90's.
Re: Djindjic, Ljajic - Are we not supposed to have a free vote? Are you suggesting that we cannot be represented by whom we choose? Isn't that an infringment of civil liberties?
Just a slight reminder of what you wanted to do all along:
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/Kosovo/Kosovo-Background18.htm
Re: Schools in Albanian language - that was our right with the then YU constitution, which incidentaly was changed in 1960's to allow this. And according to the YU constitution of 1974, all republics and provinces had the right, with a public vote in the republic/proivince in question, to declare it indipendent from YU if they so wanted. We wanted it - serbia did not allow it and in turn dissolved, by force, the Kosova parliament (assemby).
Re: Employees dismissed (or as you called voluntarily left) - This happened because our parents knew that even more of Kosova's wealth will go directly to Serbia if they signed - e.g. Elektro Ekonomia e Kosoves (Electro Privreda Kosova) would by default become Electro Privreda Srbije - without any compensation or shares being given to the employees - basically was annexed - any many other companies. And please don't give me that excuse that Serbia built it - just for once be realistic.
Re: Turkish cadastral tax census - according to these numbers - only about 40K ppl lived in majority of Kosova 500+ years ago. I find this a bit rediculous. Don't you?
Re: Working for an american company in Belgium. I am sorry, for not understanding what sort of declarations do you need to sign? Is there any of them to do with Belgian wealth being signed to US?!? - outside your company that is. What sort of a comparison is that?
Re: Turks in germany + schools: Go to London - there are schools that are in hindu only - and parents can choose where to send their kids.
Serbian killings in Kosovo: Use what against it?
Have you been to Kosova? How can you, from Belgium know that the people were not arrested? Do you follow news from Kosova (not serbian agencies) every day? What sort of a vision do you have of Kosova?
Re: Hating Serbs: ditto.
You said that if we were angels (Albanians) we would have our indipendence long time ago. In other words, you would have granted us our wish long time ago? And because no-one in the world is an angel, no one is allowed to have their own state?
Re: Big Serbia: Isn't that why you fought in Croatia/Bosnia/Kosova? You would attack Albanian if it wasn't for Kosova being on the way.
No-one is denying any crimes - and those that have committed crimes during the war are behind bars in the Hague - the others were released. Those that still kill serbs in Kosova go to prison every day. Read a bit more of unbiased news.
Re: Elctricity to serbian enclaves: You live in Belgium don't you? Would you have any electricity if you did not pay for 7 years? In fact let me reformulate the question - would you have electricity if you didn't pay for more than 3 months? Serbs in northern Mitrovica and Kosova don't pay any electricity, water nor telephone - and where there is no electricity in the rest of Kosova they get theirs from Serbia. And they expect to have electricity 24/7 where the rest of Kosova don't.
As a matter of fact, Serbia has on several occasions stopped Kosova importing electricity from Bulgaria and Romania. How can we supply electricity to any place in Kosova for there have been years of neglect of the Kosova's electrical company? Only last week there was a landslide in Kosova and blocked the road from Skopje, and the fuel tanks (trucks that is - just in case you want to twist the use of word tanks) were not allowed to cross through Serbia into Kosova.
Would you mind if I advice you on something re journalism and research?
Every journalist and researcher checks its story/research from at least 2 sources. And then they come to their conclusion (at least the researchers are supposed to). You do the same and come up with your own conclusions and use a bit of deductive reasoning.
I do not believe everything that i read in the papers/intenet for it it the belief of the author and may/may not be true. I certainly read a lot from UK/US agncies, kosova papers/tv and B92.
Do you read any news from Kosova agencies? Or are you limitted to news from serbia alone?
Btw, can you tell me the name of the company that you work for? I want to apply for a job since it seems that they do not mind you spending a lot of time writing (I wanted to include 'nonsence' here, but then I decided not to, simply because I cannot spend a lot of time writing because replies to what you might come up with next and my bosses certainly do not like me spending a lot of time on the internet) and nobody seems to mind.
Xythi
cvijus,
I perfectly understand what state sovereignity means. You don't seem to understand what freewill means.
Why should we have helped him? That is you telling someone what to do, instead of voting themselves for whom they wanted. Has anyone told you how to vote? Would you be pissed off for someone to tell you who to vote for?
How do we know that he would not in turn behaved exactly like milosevic? What guarrantees were given? Have you, as a nation, or any of your leaders, who even today continue to undermine every political move and blame everything on killings, terrorism, no electricity, etc, etc, earn the respect of any Albanian to vote for them?
You have allowed milosevic to steal the votes, by not recognising the freewill of Albanians who were not represented in the government by dismissing the parliament. Don't go blaming Albanians for your own mistakes. It is like saying Albanians are to blame because Bush is in power. Probably that is, according to you cvijus, also passive assistance. He he, you are really something... you really made me laugh...
Vaso Cubrilovic - Stalinist. So what? Does that justify that he should submit a memorandum on 'The Expulsion of the Albanians'? Hasn't that allways been your dream?
I tell you something, I take my hat off to Enver Hoxha for not accepting Albania to be the 7th republic of YU. What he did in terms of regime, I am not proud, but at least he prevented you guys to go to and occupy Albania as well.
Constitution: You said it yourselve: The provinces have the right to change to Republics (which we wanted and were met by force in 1981 - or you have forgotten that) and therefore de facto become independent if the majority (which is 2/3) by public vote.
As far as I remember and I remember vividly, in the demonstrations of '89, where I also participated, the demonstrations were peacefull, all we were shouting was the constitution not to be changed. What happened? We were beaten by serb police from Serbia who came in busloads. And I know this since I live opposite the bus station in Prishtina. Unless you were there, shush!!!
Electro Privreda Kosova, was never part of Electroprivreda Srbije, and as a matter of fact, EPK was the biggest regional (read regional, not world or which way you wish to twist it) producer and exported electricity to Serbia (and some part of former YU), Bulgaria, Greece, Romania, etc. How do I know this? I'll tell you - my uncle used to work on the department of electo distribution before he was forcibly removed from his post and has worked after the war again. And I can probably find sources on the internet if you feel like you want to bother me. So again, shush!
'DO you find it ridiculous that since 1389 there were constant wars in Kosovo.'
For once I agree with you. Before your arrival in the Balkans from the urals the region was peacefull. Now, being so intelligent, tell me who is the warmonger?
Schools in turkish: Germany maybe, in UK, schools in hindu, are statefunded.
Cvijus, Plese post the link for web site in Albanian... you forgot to post it.
And yes I know that they do not pay. It is a public knowledge in Kosova and there are countless articles in different papers and reports that serbs in northern Kosova and for that matter in other enclaves do not pay. As far as northern Mitrovica is concerned, I know, my wife's family lives in Mitrovica, and they have some boshnjak friends who live in the northern part (in their enclaves I must add because they fear the serbs) who said that they do not pay any electricity, phone water or taxes. In fact, they even receive wages from Serbia.
As well as being in Kosova with human and minority rights, you are a trucker as well. I think, that in times of crisis, in order to prove yourselves worthy of being trusted, you shold have allowed the trucks to pass through Serbia in order for us to provide energy to Kosovar homes, be that Albanian or Serb. And as for papers, Serbia does not accept Kosova plates - why? Simply they want to make it harder for Albanians to move around. And don't give me any of the BS saying that we are part of Serbia, and therefore we should have Serbian plates, bllah blah blah... Police confiscated our plates when we were expulsed in 1999... Plus you don't know if they had any papers or not, you assume that...
Malcolm and Richard Holbruck - Now who mentioned them? Plus Holbruck is your milosevics friend.
Xythi
Arguing with Mr Ivan and Other serbs is like arguing with imbeciles. To be able to communicate with them you must stoop to theri level and they will beat you with years of experience as imbeciles. Fact 1: The whole fucking planet knows that the serb army will never set foot in Kosova. Fact 2: Albanians are a majority in Kosova. Fact 3: Slowly but surely the serbs in Kosova will cease to exist. Fact 4: serb legacy for centuries to come will be thousands of bosniac and albanian women raped, Srebrenica and concentration just like the nazis.
Strategically, serbs have the croats in the north, bosniacs in the west, hungarians in the east us albanians in the south, which means you are FUCKED. No wonder you bitch so much about Kosova.Your time is UP!
xythi
even though we are still mourning the president and the serbs try to provoke in their usual ways, i laugh from the bottom of my heart when i read your posts...
your really have nerves to deal with these multiple disordered people( expect now the definition of MDP from ivan...we will surf on internet and try to tell us that he is educated)
pershendetje nga Iliri
Mr anonymous serb bitch I thought I made it clear to you but who am i kidding you morons are so brainwashed even if you say its daylight at 1pm people shouldn't believe you . So here are all those fact once again:
Fact 1: The whole fucking planet knows that the serb army will never set foot in Kosova. Fact 2: Albanians are a majority in Kosova. Fact 3: Slowly but surely the serbs in Kosova will cease to exist. Fact 4: serb legacy for centuries to come will be thousands of bosniac and albanian women raped, Srebrenica and concentration camp just like the nazis.
Strategically, serbs have the croats in the north, bosniacs in the west, hungarians in the east us albanians in the south, which means you are FUCKED. No wonder you bitch so much about Kosova.Your time is UP!
Well Ivan and Cvijan ;
Is this you're so called civilisation.
Do you think by promoting nationalism,chauvinism,heatred and by ofending the history and values of one society is your argument to bring serbia closer to the free World (EU, Nato).
Well I'm afraid you're compleately on a wrong coorse.
That's what Milosevic did.
You're trying to prove something that is not only sensless but ridiculous as well, because our history and origin is accepted by the free world, so we do not have to convince you nothing.
Using yur language of hate and some informition which is unrelevant doesn't make you any smarter.
Sometimes i've got the impression that you've gained your knowledge in the streets, so do not try to sell it to te free world.
By trying to ofend our origine you're just proving your tirany and barbarism which you've braught with in the VI century.
Above all the fact you're trying to prove are very useless to convince the world that what was then called Yugoslavia to put again under your control and dominitaion,where Kosova was part of it.
Try to use your language and knowledge for better purposes,such as calling for peace respecting the heritage an the culture of your neighbours then you'll make more chance to convince all of us that destruction and hate isn't the only thing know.
What albanians concerns,we have proven our civilisation to the civilised world.
Patience,prudence,and our courage under a 100 year cruel occupation have shown the world our dignity and wisdom.
We said Yes to demokracy, we been defending our selves with the power of tolerance and we've said yes to the most respected and prominent pacifist our president "Ibrahim Rugova" 4 times.
We had our hardliners as well which also had their reasoble worries, but we followed the path of our visioner " Rugova"
We've been patient for more then a dekade by ingoring your relenting repression with peacefull means, but even if we wer to continue for a 1000 years the same course , it would'nt change anything on your hegemonist policy.
Obviously you've forgotten who started the Yugoslav wars, who made the fabrics of masacres and rape, who made the contetration camps.
Is this the history and legacy you are proud with ?
What do you think should we have to continue on our peacefull resistance for another 1000 of years.
Of course everything has an end, so does the patience as well.
Obviously the attrocities that you've caused means that this proces should have still continued.
And I see you're trying to compare our resistance by bringing up some ridiculous and unrelevant figures.
Eventhogh I'm no way supporting violence, what you've expected by us god damned, did you expect to throw you with gillyflowers or even say thank you.
Did you expect from us to see our parents,brothers,sisters and friends being slaughterd our wifes,daughters and sisters being raped just infront of our eyes to pretend as nothing have happend or even say thank you.Don't forget a descent man (people)distance himself from atrocities, didn't the Serbs have the time to do that, how long would have taken them to realize what their leaders were doing to their albanian neighbours was unfair and crule.
Do not try to make us wiser with your dirty propaganda cause the world knows who's the agressor.
Just to remind you wern't the Kosovan serbs those who supported the millosevic regime, weren't the Kosovan serbs those who before-non worked as financial inspectors robbing albanian shops and in the afternoon serving at the paramilitary forces and as a special police officers, wern't the serbs those who poisoned thousands of albanian pupils and students.....etc. not to mention million of other cases and facts which even a thousands of books wouldn't be sufficient to describe our pain caused by serbs.
Couldn't they(serbs) say no in a good sake, couldn't they ?
So i say again that i no way support the violence, but every action has its reaction, there's someone in this dicussion who said "Quid pro Qou" or ther's a proverb "the harvest is what you plant. It's them who are causing the troubles and not us, they started the violence on march 2ooo by killing 29 albanian neighbours,
it is them who who started the riots of again march 2004 after killing three (3) albanian children, it is them who refuse to integrate to a kosovan society, it is them who left the Kosova assembly, etc. etc.. obviosly peace and integration is not your thing.
And once again it's not only albanians the only ones who suffered from your civilisation, but are you're sllav brothers as well,particularly bosnians who paid a big price with nearly 300,000 victims.
Is this your so called civilistaion ?
Well I tell you our so called primitivism have been appreciated and rewarded by the free world.
Of course we also might have made faults we realize that there's no perfect society, you're the only ones whpo pretend that, but there's no way to compare a very few cases with your genocide.
Be carefull because you're sacring the world with the language you speak, you just giving them one more fact that you are only a destructive element of every civilisation.
If it wasn't your predominant policy the union of former Yugoslavia wouldn't bankrrupt(brake).
Above all if you were so good and civilised why no a single country of the former union (YU) wants you,even your brothers "Monte Negro" want to get rid of you.
Only by showing a tolerance, respect and constructive police you can be accepted from your neighbouring countries and then the EU.
Your destructive language has just shown what the serbs would bring wit them into the union.
So try to be more constructive and call for peace, calm down and try to use a proper reasoning and be a tolerant, only than you can prove that you belong to the European family.
In my previous post i've said there is no contry without conflict and hsitory , but if we have to use the History like you preach then you're making the EU afraid from you,then we will have to bring back the most crules regimes, and empires....
Don't forget that it's not the history who will bring you to the free world, but your values, so try to work on it and then you maybe make a better chance.
Then you mention economy,how you dare to speak about economy when you're living from the world's financial aid.
And what your priviliges in Europe concerns ,once again i'll have to tell you that you can make a collective guilt because then noone is good in this world.You're living in Belgium am i right he ?
You must know than who is Marc Dutroux, you heart also about Michel Fourniret , cause i think that's not necessary to tell their story right here , but just a comparisson, just because they did what they've done I never say that Belgian society is worthless.
Just because I think you're very bad , i don't think that every serb is bad , etc.. etc...
I've been to Belgium and I've met many albanians but all of them were well respected.
Of course , I say again there are criminals among the Albanians , but just go and ask some more information in Antwerp in particular, who are the most dangerous bands ther, then you'll get the answer.
And it's not the Albanians that Belgium and other EU countries are having problems with, but some north african residents who are finding it difficult to adjust to the West-European normes,as well as with some immigrants of the new member states that joined the EU immigrants which make a pretty unfair competition in the labour market.
Go there and ask Filip Dewinter if he sees a difference between kosovans,serbs,polish or else...
and about the serbian named streets in germany and .. if you live in Belgium go to Brussels,in the Scarbeek area(zone) than you'll see the statue of our grateful hero SKENDERBEU standing there infront of Josaphat Park.
So please go and refresh your mind and your poisoned heart and then come here with another vision so we can discuss the future, bacause as you see, you're proud with history and I am proud with mine and comparing it brings us nowhere.
So please try to sell your wisdom somewhere else.
PS i'm aware that you'll come again with even worst statement and comment so don't forget that I'm suprised if you do so, and the reason that i gave again a comment on this topic is because of Ilir(anonymous) who tryed to show the other side of the book.
so this refers to ilir as well, do not spend the energy with people like this,because if you've apologised them not 1000 times but even 1000 of years that wouldn't make them think different,and you should have realised that since the very beginig, so please do not respond to their comments because you're feeding their nationalism and brings you in the same boat.
So simply they are born to destruct. We have more important things to do and discuss.
Mr Ivan excremented:
Let me help our confused albanian friends,
The answer lies in the Byzantine chroniclers which date the arrival of Albanians (Alvanoi) from Southern Italy at 1043 in central Albania (Durrës) as mercenaries in the army of Maniakis.
I say: in that case we have done pretty damn good. So dont go on bs-ing how your army is great and serbia is amazing cause only a handful of alabanian mercenaries have almost taken from you the whole serbia. However, the fact now is that there are more than 7 million albanians in a compact area which you can't asssimilate or anihilate.How long will you last in a 15 round fight against Muhammad Albanian. You are shitting your pants even as the negotiations are going on. You better start making A-bombs bitch.
Mr serbs
Montenegrins in the north? HA HA HA AH you fucking bitches are funny. Even they dont want anything to do with you.
Then please give the Serbs in Kosovo to have free will. They want to be part of Serbia not some new Albanian country.
OK - lets put it to the public vote in a referendum in Kosova only and let it be decided that way what the majority want. We are not against a referendum. That is what we wanted all along.
Re: Greater Albania - Where was in this blogg Greater Albania mentioned appart from you Serb writers? I think you should need to understand that we want Indipendence, not Albania and certainly not Serbia. I think (read 'think') that because you did not achieve the 'Great Serbia' are afraid that we are seeking Great Albania.
Your politicians could have represented your people in the Serbian Parliament. The reason why your parliament got dismissed is because you declared independence which was against the Serbian constitution. IF your politicians decided to participate in the Serbian parliament (where they belong, because Kosovo is STILL part of Serbia)),Milosevic would have been overthrown long time ago. But then again that would not work in the direction for the creation of Great albania.
Again Great Albania - I am beginning to think that you are putting ideas into our heads - maybe that is what you want? That Albania becomes Great again? Plus, our parliament was dissolved by force for doing something that was within the constitution of YU. It was by force that the parliament was dissolved.
But you forgot to envy Enver Hoxha for killing so many Serbs, that’s your biggest dream, to create Serb free Balkans. But I tell you something my friend, you tried this in the Balkan wars, and you failed, then you tried in the second world war, you failed, and now you managed to clean Kosovo from Serbs. But not thanks to your mighty warriors, because we all saw what happened to UCK when they fought against the Serbian military, but with the help of drug and prostitution money which lobbied the american politicians.
Pinch yourself as you are dreaming mate - UCK was indeed beaten in some fronts, but with the Serbian stolen army from ex-YU. Now don't go telling me about drugs and prostitution. The money from that could not have been a match to your army might. But we fought with what we had, and I think we did more than enough with what we had. And in the Balkan wars, let me remind you that close to 50K Albanians were killed by your + montenegrin forces.
WWII - what the hell are you on about?!?!? Are you in Amsterdam and halucinating having consumed magic mushrooms?
Get your bloody facts straight as you are really strating to get on my nerves with your ignorance.
First learn to read, and then comment. Provinces had the right to change republics, but not to become a republic itself, or to become independent. Try reading again , I am sure you will understand.
Sorry I have misread it - I apologise. But you are wrong regarding the constitution.
There are rules of how demonstrations should be held. You first need to get the permission to hold the demonstration peacefully ofcourse, and then you can hold it.
Columbo!!!
Were you in Kosova then? Or did you read it in your media? STFU!
Shush - yes my mother said to me that when I was noughty - whereas your mum slapped and kicked when you and that is why you are so stupid now.
During the Communist/Socialist Era there were no private companies, all of them were state owned. So everything came from one pocket. Whether it was Elektroprivreda Srbija or elektroprivreda Kosovo, its all being supported by the Serbian tax payers.
I am beginning to wonder if you ever lived in YU/Serbia. No they were not all state owned as a start - they were the companies of those who worked in them jointly with the state. Plus was it only Serbs that paid taxes? What the hell are you on? And the were not allways part of Elektro Privreda Serbije - you took it by force!!! Get that through your thick scull. The fund belonged to YU not to Serbia.
Who covers the insurance for Kosovo cars.
Loyds of London!
And you took all our plates when we were forced out of Kosova at gunpoint - and refused to issue others after the war. So don't give me all your BS and stop complaining that the serbs do not have power when you do not let us drive through Serbia, even in an emergency.
Arguing with Mr Ivan and Other serbs is like arguing with imbeciles.
I am beginning to believe that myself. I thought that you are a bit smarter since you work for an American company - but now I wonder.
After all why are they so afraid to talk to Serbian DEMOCRATIC politicians and why didn’t you allow President Tadic to attend Rugovas funeral?
Why don't you try and anwser your own question... Or do you still need me to educate on how to use deductive reasoning?
Do you think that he was truthfull? Do you think that the politicians in Kosova have a say in that? I doubt that Rugova's family wanted an enemy to attend the funeral and I very much doubt that the international community would have allowed it. And as far as the latter is concerned - complain to them. Nothing to do with us.
And be truthfull - would he have come for real or he knew for sure that he will not be allowed and that he used the excuse politically? Come one, everyone has sussed you out by now what sort of dirty politics you play.
As for all the other Albos, choose are you decendents of Illrians or Dardanians?
Who do you wish us to belong to? Why are you guys so obsessed with it? How about we came from Mars or maybe Jupiter? Is that any better?
There is one thing that I feel sorry for you guys - it is the fact that you are all going to live and die disapointed, for you have finally forever lost your right to rule Kosova. You can by all means live in it, no-one is denying you that right, but you will have to live under Kosova law. Get over it! Move on!
Sorry to dissapoint you, but all of the posts that i write are either during my lunch break or from my home.
I know its the Albanian dream not to do anything and also get money for it. But keep on searching, maybe will get lucky
Are you saying that that is only Albanian dream? Don't kid yourself... or us for that matter.
BTW - you did not tell me the name of the company... I might get lucky there...
Is this how you respect human rights? Or how you respect different religions by building memorial complex of the people who burned more than 120 churches on the property of the Church. GOD SAVE EUROPE!!!!!
Maybe you should build a memorial to Hitler in a Sinagoge.
As far as this is concerned we are following the path that you serbs tought us Albanians when you built your orthodox churches on the catholic church foundations and walls...
Xythi
Enough bitching then. May the best, in our case man, in your case rapist, win.
cvijus,
First of all who mentioned that serbs are barbarians? But now that you do, I agree.
I have had history clases, in fact, I have had history clases tht were censured by serbs. So you may be right, I have been tought the wrong history. And that is why I am reading historians like Malcolm who is an unbiased historian.
The Albanians, came from Mars on the 18th century. Are you satisfied? You will still never rule Kosova.
BTW - I like the way you think that Bulgaria and Romania want to be associated with you. I guess they supported you by allowing NATO to use your airspace when they bombed you. And when you say montenegro supports you, I think that you are mistaken guys - they want their own indipendence - and they will get it god willing. In fact they so much 'support you' in so having adopted a different currency from yours and many other things which you know about.
See you all in a week. I am going skiing. I need to recuperate from these serbian twats.
Xythi
You shat:
If I get you you will wonder for the rest of your life what happened to you, IF I get you since you all hit-run-hide(UCK legacy) like any ordinary pussy. Be a man for once.
I say:
I have seen you fight in two wars bitch, and you are nothing but cowards. I have seen serbs cry like little bitches in croatia and they were armed to the teeth. However, your won in balkan wars only because of russians and geopolitical games of super powers.Times up!
Mr Ivan you work for an american company? From the same country that bombed the fuck out of you? Ouch. Talk about a fucker who sold his soul for a few dollars.
thats funny and ironic how 2 serbs have the whole blog going (115 comments) especially under the topic where ppl are supposed to pay respect to their deceased leader. Do u even give a sh.. about your leader? Well if you do instead of cursing and arguing back and forth hold a minute of silence for him. And just to respect his only insiparations (independence through peace and understanding) stop this nonsense under this topic.
If you are an albanian and still post under this topic to reply to instigating serbs in my book you are as bad as serb and maybe should move to Belgrade or shoot your albanian friend
Ivan,
I'll reply when I get back from the holiday...
And it is not a case of hit and run. It is your tactics, not ours.
I'll reply to you when I get back, I guess you can wait till then?
Xyrhi
"As for all the other Albos, choose are you decendents of Illrians or Dardanians? "
you mentioned this 2-3 times...stop making full of yourself and showing how big idiot you are...DARDANIANS ARE ILLIRIAN tribe, who lived in this area...hope you get this through your brain.
hey anonymous is this your wisdom
we might make mistakes but you do not have the right to call none in this Blog a idiot.
At the end of the day we are here disccusing and expressing our opinions.
This is what you said a while back,
"If you don't like driving through Serbia, than either respect the traffic rules or find another way to go to Pristina. Nobody forced you to drive through Serbia."
Like you said, if the Serbs don't like to pay their water, electricity, maintance..etc then they can all go to Vojvodina, I'd like to see them give them free everything.
Shjkijet are use to getting everything easy and free, sorry that isn't happening, Shkijet aren't control Kosova anymore. Alsomore, why do you choose selective reading? Do you remember saying "don't worry we'll just watch you murder yourself for president" [Refering to the talks]?
Looky here. " Breaking News: Fatmir Sejdiu Will Be Elected As The New President of Kosova
Learn to READ dumbass. Also look who is fighting.
"Jaksic may leave status team | 13:44 January 30 | B92
KOSOVSKA MITROVICA, BELGRADE -- Monday – Marko Jaksic is considering leaving the Belgrade Kosovo status discussion team. "
"“The treat of resigning is a well-know method of our politicians, and Jaksic is with his statements and the help of the public, trying to improve his position within the team. The ‘more about autonomy, less about independence’ formula could include 15 different solutions""
I would leave too, they should settle for Serbia having full of control of Kosova. Wait, what are the 10 points of the talk, oh yes, Kosova shall not return to its state of 1999.
Viva La Republic of Kosova
National independence or freedom is a myth, a dangerous illusionn that has already cost millions of (innocent) lives and unless it is abondoned will claim many more in the (near) future. Nations cannot become free, only individuals can. To the extent that the citizens of a nation,of whatever nationality, become free, the nation is. The solution to areas of mixed ethnic populations is the hitherto unknown idea of the threefold social organism, i.e not ethnic cleansing, but social organic cleansing through applying freedom to the spiritual life (science, art and religion), equality to the rights sphere and realizing brotherhood in the economic life (through, among other things, the division of labour and circulating the means of production to those most capable of handling them), as already proclaimed at the beginning of the previous century by Rudolf Steiner, the founder of anthroposophy, in his book "The Threefold Social Order" (in German: "Die Kernpunkte der Sozialen Frage" translated under various titles, such as the Threefold Commonwealth and also into many languages). Steiner was born in 1861 in what is is now Croatia. He witnessed the break-up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire under the strain of its many nationalities all clamoring for national independence and saw at first hand the ominous developments (such as the economic tension between England and Germany) leading to to World War I, and then came up with this idea that all nationalities ought to be given complete power over their cultural life, including jurisprudence, a radical departurew from the centralized state. When this Central European idea of social organics was rejected (to be later crushed by National Socialism and Bolschevism) he developed a new form for its presentation in his lectures on World Economy(1922) that is still waiting to be explored and implemented.
For the way towards attaining individual freedom, he wrote "The Philosophy of Freedom" also translated as "The Philosophy of Spiritual Activity" (in German: "Die Philosophie der Freiheit")
This is the way forward, instead of looking backwards in the no doubt historically interesting past of the proud peoples on the Balkan, because this retrospective leads to murderous conflict and suppressions of minorities: it is a blind alley, a dead end. This new perspective does not, however, end all conflict, but raises it from the physcial level to the cultural sphere, where as a sort of "New Olympic Games of the Spirit" delegates from the national cultures can compete against each other to determine who makes the most beautiful music, sculptures and buildings, and who forwards the best ideas for the common good of all humanity and the environment on earth.
To those servians who question the Illyrian-Albanian link can they tell me where the name Albania comes from? Weren't Albans an Illyrian tribe? How about the ancient Illyrian names Gent, Teuta, Bardhyl, Agron how did they get to this day? I'm most certain there are no servian people with these names.
There are facts of slavic people coming down from Urals and steppes in the VII century, or you don't agree even on that?
If we Albanians came long after you, as you say, where is this writen or documented? Such movements would have been documented somewhere since this brings about displacement of other populations and wars.
We have always been there and we were no news.
You can read "the Alabanians" George Fred Williams, 1914. He was the American Minister to Montenegro and Greece.
He explains linguisticly the meaning of greek gods in Illyrian (Albanian). I can give you one of many examples Aphrodita- Af(ph)er dita(near day) or dawn. There is no expalnation of greek gods in the greek, as greeks borrowed them from this older poulations called Illyrs.
See the lingustic tree published in 1974 from Swedish Institute of Languages, showing the Albanian as the oldest Indo-Europian language.
It's understandable you have an identity crisis, and inferiority complex.
Talking about religion, you first were pagans, and became Christians and then Muslims (Bosnia), so we in part from Christian became Muslims. What's the difference? You changed we changed. You became Christians only in theory since in practice you remained barbarians. Isn't Christianity all about peace and brotherhood? Read the austrian journalist Leo Freundlich, Edith Durham and more regarding your attrocities and how you brag about them. It's very "Christian" of you.
Albanians in Kosova were Crypto-Catholics in many cases. They kept their faith but changed their name or last name just for appearance. They had the Catholic priests going to their houses and giving them mass.
And latter on remaining Muslim meant to them being different from the hatred invader the Orthodox serbs, just a reaction to your ways of "Christianity"
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