Wednesday, January 04, 2006

Ethnic Albanians Won't Talk To Serbs On Kosovo Status -PM

BELGRADE (AP)--Ethnic Albanians will not negotiate directly with Serbian officials about Kosovo's future status, the province's prime minister said in comments published Wednesday.

Bajram Kosumi made the comments in a rare interview with Belgrade newspaper Vecernije Novosti before this year's expected start to internationally sponsored talks on finding a solution for the southern province.

Kosovo was put under U.N. and NATO administration in 1999, though it formally remains part of Serbia.

"We won't even talk about Kosovo's status with Serbia," said Kosumi, an ethnic Albanian. Instead, a Kosovo delegation will talk to U.N. Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari or other foreign mediators.

Kosovo's leadership has insisted on full independence, while Belgrade wants to give it wide autonomy but have it remain within its territory.

"Kosovo has been de facto independent since June 1999 and will remain so," Kosumi was quoted as saying, referring to the month when NATO bombing forced Serbia to halt its crackdown on Kosovo' ethnic Albanian separatists.

"The international community has clearly said there won't be any return to the situation prior to 1999," Kosumi reportedly said.

Ethnic Albanians account for more than 90% of Kosovo's population. More than 200,000 Serbs fled the province in 1999, and the remaining 100,000 live mostly in enclaves occasionally targeted by ethnic Albanian militants.

Belgrade also wants Kosovo's government to be decentralized so its Serb enclaves can be governed from Serbia's capital, instead of by the ethnic Albanian leadership in Kosovo's capital, Pristina.

Kosumi insisted that even if Kosovo were decentralized to give Serb municipalities some autonomy, it should not amount to territorial division within the province.

He dismissed Belgrade's security concerns as an attempt to "manipulate" the talks.

"There are certain weaknesses, which we are aware of, and we are working to resolve that," he said.

86 comments:

ivan said...

The reason why you are afraid to talk to Belgrade is because you know you have no moral rights to steal Kosovo-Metohija from Serbia. But let me tell you something, Kosovo-Metohijas status will not be defined without an agreement from Belgrade.

Dardania 2006 said...

Ivan,

I beg you please then to come and wipe out 2 milion Albanians who have learned first hand of Serbian moral conduct.

The reason why Belgrade has no say what happens to Kosova is that Belgrade has no reason to have a say.

Just as much as Kosovars have a say about Serbian independence and state issues.

Sleep well dear Serb

ivan said...

Dardania,

Let me remind you that Kosovo is not an independent country and under UN Convention it still belongs to the borders of Serbia, and then it belongs as part of Serbia to the federation of Serbia and Montenegro.

So if the majority is to decide on the faith of Serbia and hence on the faith of Kosovo& Metohija, then all of the people from Serbia should decide on it. The result is that less than 20% of the population of Serbia, wants Kosovo to be independent.

Now you will say the people of Kosovo& Metohija want it to be independent. My answer to you is that people from North of Mitrovica also want to be part of Serbia. People from Republika Srpska also want to be independent. Basques from Sapin also want to be independent. Northern Ireland also wants to be independent. Hence, you have no moral right to steal Kosovo from Serbia.

Fatilirida said...

hajvan ,, what about Sandjak, voyvodina, eastren kosova (lugina e presheves).. let me help you fill the balnks ... ... ... you should consider theese areas as well to have self ditermenation...

ivan said...

i dont understand your point? What about texas, florida, California, Bayern, Wallonia, what about them. These are all areas of different countries. They do not have right for self determination. tell me how does Kosovo differs from them?

arianit said...

Very simple, according to UN's Resolution 1244, Kosova is part of Yugoslavia. That country doesn't exist anymore, and in a couple of months even S&M won't exist anymore. Do you get it now or should I elucidate it further for ya?

Michael Petersen said...

To Ivan:
The contact group do not need Belgrades agreement.

They need only Belgrades Criminals To Hague.

UA said...

to Hajvan:

don't compare Kosova to other places who want secession. Unlike Kosova, they weren't targets of ethnic cleansing. That's the entire point. Serbia lost it's moral and legal right over Kosova, if it ever had one. Albanians have the upper hand on that land, historically, legally, and morally.

Kristian said...

To: Ivan

Its not a question of moral rights my dear friend. You always mention SERBIA SERBIA and only SERBIA what happened to Montenegro? If you want to be correct in your statesments always refer to the country of Serbia and Montenegro. By just saying just Serbia your already biased and shows your character, for as we know the whole world knows the serbian past all too well.

Under the 1974 constitution Kosovo was a self governing entity. It had the same rights as any REPUPLIC in FROJ. Under the constitution any one of these entities had a right to leave the Federation (as Montenegro will vote this year).

Going a bit further back (You can check this out for yourself if you want to inform yourself and be a little bit more knowledgeable).

Kosova and Vojvodina were actually established before Serbia: Kosova in January 1944, Vojvodina in March 1944, Serbia only in November 1944. Serbia at the latter juncture did not include either Vojvodina or Kosova. It was only in July 1945 that Kosova and Vojvodina voted - autonomously and separately from one another and from Serbia - to join Serbia. Their adhesion to Serbia was sanctioned by the Yugoslav AVNOJ government in August 1945, when they were also given separate (from Serbia) representation within Yugoslavia’s federal bodies. Kosova and Vojvodina, in other words, were from the start constituent elements of the Yugoslav federation, just as the republics were. This was fully recognised by the last Yugoslav constitution, by virtue of which Vojvodina and Kosova were in all practical respects equal to the republics. Despite their formal union with Serbia, they were by the nature of their constitutions and legal status provinces of Yugoslavia, not of Serbia. Their union with Serbia was legally valid only during Yugoslavia’s existence, or as long as their populations did not decide otherwise. For just as Kosova had voluntarily joined the union with Serbia, so too it retained the right to leave it by its own will.

The key word in the above paragraph is "VOTED". Since Yugoslavia does not exist then neither is the notion that Kosova belongs to SERBIA. It never belonged it voted to join. And its the right of the ppl to abolish that union to Serbia.

Also another FACT: SERBIA is not a COUNTRY that is recognized anywhere on this PLANET we call EARTH. As you stated the "federation of SERBIA and MONTENEGRO" is.

You always mention 1999 as the time Kosovo was being run on its own. Well if you don't recall the albanians were running their own institutions since 1989 after "THE SERBS" FIRED ALL ALBANIANS IN POLITICAL AUTHORITY.

How democratic are the serbian ppl when they blatently denied the persons that were elected by the ppl of Kosovo to run their government? And please don't blame it just on Milosevic bc there are how many serbs in serbia? It was not the act of just one person. It was the acts of a multitude of ppl in office and out of office.

Your question that Kosovo is your cradle of serbias existence. Well shoot, then maybe the albanians should kick all the ppl out of Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia, and all of Epirus. Or maybe the indians of America should kick every nationality that lives here in the USA. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

No one is stealing Kosovo/a from serbia, for it never belonged to it legally. It did belong to the FROY, not to SERBIA!

The Kosovars (albanian, serb, vlach, roma, turks) have voted that they want to self govern themselves. And unlike the other regions of the world that you mentioned the situation is not the same. Let me remind you that Kosovo/a was always a self governing body, the other regions were never so.

What I do suggest what serbia and montenegro do is make sure that their ppl be represented and have the same rights as every individual in Kosovo/a. That the churches and their religion should be respected/preserved. That they aught to have the same freedoms and be able to move and live peacefully amongst albanians, instead of using them as a pawn. Belgrade will only hurt these ppl and those that have left might not return. And they aught to return.

Each side should be talking about how to unify things. We all know that both sides have suffered. The albanians more then the serbians, and it doesn't just start from 1999 but for over a 100 yrs. And yes the serbs of kosovo/a suffered from the Turks(osmans), but so did the albanians. Many were forced to the point where they had to convert in order to survive, and I think serbs did as well (look at bosnia).

When you talk of Morals, you shouldn't open your mouth nor the serb ppl as a whole. HOW CAN YOU KILL YOUR OWN BROTHER, BC OF THEIR RELIGION? OR WOMEN THAT ARE PREGNANT, AND CHILDRED. The ppl in Bosnia are all of slovak origin and the majority of moslems are SERBS. (bosnia) This alone should speak volumes about the nature of the serb peoples.

If you want to blame someone of STEALING KOSOVO/A from you blame the Turks(osmans). And don't forget during that famous battle there were a lot of Albanians that died on that field as well. Serbs and Albanians shed blood on that field, so don't be so one sided. I think your biggest gripe and of the serb ppl is that they detest the fact that the majority of the population is MUSLIM! And I really don't think it has anything to do with Albanians. Just a thought!

Ah, I wish the days of Tito were back when everyone got along!

Kristian said...

To Ivan:

Look at the balkans as a whole. Blame the turks(osmans) for all of our problems. Their greatest invention was the concept of "divide and conquer". In the past the region was run by tribes, principalites, a few kings that created federations amongst their tribes. They used us against each other as a ppl, through our religion, and our fears by creating steriotypes. And they still exist today. They haven't ruled in 100yrs and in a way they still do. They pitted serb agains serb, orthodox against catholic or muslim, serb against other ppl including albanian, and finally albanian against albanian. Either through religion, or tribe. The whole region is lose lose situation if we continue to do what they instilled in us for 500 yrs.

I would recommend to wake up and pray for peace, doesn't matter if your orthodox, muslim, or catholic. Peace is what we all should strive for. Borders always shift that is a given from human history. Put peace is something rare and you have to remember life is precious, no matter who it is. I beg you pray for peace its better then arguing.

god bless us all!
бог благословляет нас все!(russian)
Na bekoft zoti tanve!

I hope I got all of those correct!

Dardania 2006 said...

Kristian,

Thank you.

Anakonda said...

Serbs have not paid their depts to Albanians yet.
There will be nothing to discuss with serbs because they do not believe in anything.They think they are the world's best and in fact they are the worst.
Ivan,
We Albanians have not stolen your country.It is the opposite,you have expelled albanians even from
Nis and Leskovci.All those villages around Nis and Leskovc used to be populated with albanians.
Mabye you forget this but we will not.We will not forget thousands and thousands of Albanians,children,women who were killed by your fucking cetniks.
Kosovo under Serbia only over 2 million Albanian dead bodies.So come on we are ready to die and you get ready for a party.Albanian people were sloughterd by you Serbs and you used to celebrate.
So pray,who knows we could swap places.

Dardania 2006 said...

Anakonda,

We will not swap places because we are not the criminals.

All we want (for generations now) is peace, and we are ready to forgive, yet not forget, just to move on.

Serbs have lost all their dignity and humanity, placed themselves as the symbol of human barbarism, so if I were the Belgrade government I'd be thinking of a backup plan for all the war damages which Serbia will have to pay very soon.

Serbian taxpayers will pay for supporting a genocidial government in the 90s.

Let's hope for their sake they do not make the same mistake in 2006.

ivan said...

kristian,

A remark to your following quote,
"Kosova and Vojvodina were actually established before Serbia: Kosova in January 1944, Vojvodina in March 1944, Serbia only in November 1944. Serbia at the latter juncture did not include either Vojvodina or Kosova. It was only in July 1945 that Kosova and Vojvodina voted - autonomously and separately from one another and from Serbia - to join Serbia. "

Serbia was under occupation from Axis powers from the period from 1941-1945. How they split the terriotory of Serbia, is unlawful since we all agree that the Axis alliance is the alliance of evil and unlawfullness. Should I remind you that Albania was also part of this alliance?

Read any valid and you will see that Kosovo has never been a country of its own, and since the existance of Serbia as a recognized international state, Kosovo has always been part of it.

Secondly, there isnt an academic proof that the Illyrians and Dardanias are the ancestors of modern albanians. So you could make any stories you want and relate yourself to them, but unless academically justified, these are just stories.

ivan said...

Why if you are so convinced in your morality over Kosovo, why do you keep on attacking Serbian civilians. Yesturday was the second attack within a month on Serbian civilians?

My culture and my religion teaches me that if my heart is clean I can without fear speak with my enemy looking at him in the eyes. But apparently you are afraid to talk to Belgrade. You are afraid to look at the Serbian people in the eyes, and thats why you can only throw rocks and bricks, you can only throw hand granades at civilians.

Mir said...

" It did belong to the FROY, not to SERBIA!"

You realize that Serbia & Montenegro is the legal succesor to FROJ? I didn't think so.

Serbians can accept the crimes we did and try to get past them. What pisses us off is that you cant accept yours and to this day you still claim you've never comitted any crimes of any kind. If Kosovo is independent, the EU/US is sending (to both Serbs and Albanians) a clear message that it is 'acceptable' to hate each other over ethnicity, religion, nationality, color, etc. and to seek war for independence over such issues.

We know the crimes we are being held responsible for, and we know to accept them. You don't and never will, you will always play along with the biased-media and be the innocent lambs that were slaughtered for no reason at all, etc.

Good luck with Kosovo, tell your American buddies to help you blow up a few more of our churches so that they can claim we have no heritage from there at all.

Titan said...

Ivan,

If there isn't any academic proof that Illyrins and Dardanians aren't Albanian ancestors (there are many many facts confirming this heritage), it is academicly prooven that Slavs invaded Balkan (Illyrian) peninsula at the 6th century.

Regarding the yesterday's bus attack, the reports confirm that over 90% of passengers were albanian. The investigations are in progress, and don't be surprised if the authors of this crime come out to be serbian dzandars. They were cought many time traveling within Kosova, armed!!

Regards.

ivan said...

Titan,

I dont find the source as a liable one, where it is stated that 90% of the passangers were albanians. Why would albanians travel on the route that is mainly used by minorities? Why would they be on a bus with the final destination to Beograd? Why hasnt your news agency reported anything about the attack on the bus few days ago where there were only serbian passangers? To me this seems like a good cover up story, to show the world that Serbs (as minorities that need protection from UNMIK troops) are attacking albanians. Give me a break.

Kristian said...

To Ivan and Mir and the rest of the commentators:

In the land of USA everyone has a right to express their opinion, in Kosovo/a or Serbia & Montenegro it is not so. If you are albanian and your express your opinion you will be hated by the other ethnic groups, regardless if your point is true and if you're serbian the same aplies.

In war no one is innocent, for those participating in it. If we look at numbers and if we look at who caused several wars it would clearly be Serbia& Montenegro that will be blamed. Its a fact not some made up myth.

In the entity of Kosovo/a it was blatently apparent as to who was the suppressor. With over 40,000 troops in the region (pre 99). Fully supported by the Serbian & Montenegran military (it was a province of FROY). All autonomous rights were stripped from the ppl 89 which constitutionaly could not be done but it happened. All positions of authority were stripped. These positions were elected by the ppl of Kosovo/a and not by belgrade. And I can go on and on about what the Serbs did till I grow old and die and I still would have more to say even in my coffin.

The albanians were not the suppressors. For over 10 yrs they led a peaceful means of trying to resolve the issue of autonomy and forming a Republic and still remaining in FROY. Yes the KLA was born out of discontent with the peaceful process showing no results. A small group of individuals which were not even a 10th of one percent started bombing facilities. Killed 4 serbs in their first attack and destroyed a small number of govt properties. So the serbian government branded them terrorists. How can you compare what the army did to the albanians to what the Yugoslav army did to the ppl of Kosovo/a??? And in this army why weren't albanians allowed to perform their civic duties to the state of FROY? If some did military service there were never given any positions nor allowed to carry weapons with ammunition, the rest of the ethnic groups were! How or why was this? Did the serbs already stereotype albanians?

People are extremely discontent with the belgrade government. There is no trust in that regime. And if there is a serb there that will tell the albanians oh don't worry we have changed (they're fooling themselves). You can change a name but never what they truly believe.

If belgrade was smart they would of started in 1980/1 to deter what happened in Yugoslavia, especially Kosovo/a. They could of gave Kosovo/a its republic status but put it in the constitution that in order to seperate there needed to be a majority of republics to do so. The ppl of Kosovo/a just wanted to improve their lives.

Kristian said...

After the demonstrations of 80/1 belgrade decided to cut off economic development in Kosovo/a. I believe this was their biggest mistake. (you have black americans here in the US and they were mistreated for years but now they live and prosper but at the same time spend Billions and the economy is stronger bc of this). Had belgrade improved their situation a lot of ppl would of never had anything to gripe about.

After 80/1 demonstrations, Serbs were leaving bc other regions of Yugoslavia had better opportunities and albanians were leaving as well. It was done on purpose by belgrade to have albanians move out, but in reality it back fired causing serbs to move out as well. Its been proven economically that if you develop a region there are less gripes amongst the ppl that live in that region. If you try to suppress a region, your oppening pandoras box. And you have to look at the history of the region. Suppression by the Turks for 500 years and now your in the 20th century and Belgrade wants to suppress a ppl when the world is moving towards democratic standards. I wonder who were the advisors in Belgrade to suggest that suppress will solve the issue of Kosovo/a. They should them.

One thing about Albanians is that if they believe in something they will embrace it 100% or not at all. Look at communism, there was not a single country in the world that was more stalanistic then Albania. The ppl of albania out did Russia and China. Nothing to be proud of but the point is how they believe in things.



"Secondly, there isnt an academic proof that the Illyrians and Dardanias are the ancestors of modern albanians. So you could make any stories you want and relate yourself to them, but unless academically justified, these are just stories."

The scholars of Belgrade University beg to differ. The Illyrian issue no one has concrete evidence, and your right up to an extent but no one can say that we are not. The ppl of the world as a whole assume it to be so.

The Dardanians, your scholars believe to think we are but didn't originate in Kosovo/a but further east and are a mix with the Thracians. (further east hmmm I think there is some foul play there to keep Kosovo/a as your own territory, when the world knows there were no slavic ppl prior to the 6th/7th century). Again this is a debate amongst scholars and I do not claim that I am one and can only take what I've read from world writers, serbian, albanian, greek and turkish historians, archiologists, etc..




"Why if you are so convinced in your morality over Kosovo, why do you keep on attacking Serbian civilians. Yesturday was the second attack within a month on Serbian civilians?

My culture and my religion teaches me that if my heart is clean I can without fear speak with my enemy looking at him in the eyes. But apparently you are afraid to talk to Belgrade. You are afraid to look at the Serbian people in the eyes, and thats why you can only throw rocks and bricks, you can only throw hand granades at civilians."


Lets see who bombed a Embassy of the Republic of Albania this week? You attacked a sovereign nation in your capital!

And as far as looking belgrade politicians in the eye, we've never not looked any other way but in the eye. The mere fact is that talks have not started as of yet and when they do both parties will have a chance to talk about their points and concerns. ITS ONLY DEMOCRATIC TO DO SO.

If I'm not mistaken both parties have taken one stance that is common to both. Belgrade: Kosovo/a should belong to Serbia & Montenegro, while the Kosovars ppl that it should be independent. Both arguing the same thing pretty much.


My personal situation of where I live. To the left of my house there is a serb family, to the right an Italian family, and if I walk straight out of my front door about 25 paces I will enter the door of my neighbor across the street who is Croatian. Funny that in the US I live in a small balkan area.

I respect all my neighbors, but what impressed me the most is that during the 99 incident my serb neighbor apologized at what the government was doing and paid respect to the family I lost during that incident. He's been a friend to us for over 20 yrs and I truly respect him as a HUMAN being and a great neighbor.

During the wars, we would all go out, and ppl would say a lot of things about the serb or the croat or myself about how can you associate yourself with such a person or the serb would say that to my serb neighbor or the croat..etc. Easy he had seen me suffer I had seen him suffer and we all had suffered during our time as neighbors. We all knew each other and all of each others problems, and the biggest thing that held us together was respect not just of each other but of each others opinion.

There are a lot of small minded ppl on this planet. We were not such persons.

Again, pray for peace and educating ppl about each other and not breed hatred amongst each other. It will only cause history to repeat itself with the next generation.

Kristian said...

To: Mir

"We know the crimes we are being held responsible for, and we know to accept them. You don't and never will, you will always play along with the biased-media and be the innocent lambs that were slaughtered for no reason at all, etc."

Its sounds great that "we know to accept them." The main question is have you publicly apologized for the crimes you have committed?

There were a lot of families that were slaughtered for no reason. Ask your MUSLIM SERBIAN BROTHERS in B&H they will tell you a few things about the innocent being slain. You should be ashamed of yourselves. For in your bible and my bible and in the Koran life is precious and "thou shalt not kill" should have some meaning to you.

As far as ppl attacking serbs that should be condemned and I do condemn such acts. Now lets see what is the root cause of such attacks. Ppl have lost family. Albanians are known for blood feuds and if you lost a family member you want compensation. Eye for an eye is usually the rule of thumb.

Two, ppl have created stereo types not just by albanians but the serbs are guilty of this too.

Three, ppl want to see results on the status of Kosovo/a. They are agitated and restless and some that are traumatized from the war react withouth thinking when they see serbs (especially those that lost family).

Four, there are ignorant ppl as in any society.

And a lot more reasons, psychological, economic, etc...

ivan said...

Kristian,

thanks for an extensive elaboration fo the whole matter, unfortinately i dont have time to answer all of your points, maybe i will in several other posts.

I am glad that your Serbian neighbour came to pay you respect. I would do the same, and Mitar I am sure would do the same. The point that we are trying to make is that, yes Serbs have committed crimes, and we do apologize for that. Those crimes do not represent the serbian population as a whole, but rather a very small percentage of criminals. Serbia has apologized to Croatia and Bosnia. Sorry not Serbia but Serbia and Montenegro since president Marovic made the apologies. But we recieved an apology in return. Serbia is willing to make an apology and to deal with its past. But I have not read anywhere in your post, that you Albanians are willing to make any of such commitments. Serbian children have been killed in Kosovo& Metohija after 1999. I font remember exactly the date opr the place, but I do remember that the UN has conemned such an act. But have the killers been found? No. Was there any apology? No! Serbs are attacked constantly by albanians in Kosovo& Metohija, but you give me excuses of blood revenge, pshychological disorder , etc. How do you plan to become a modern european country when you approve blood revenge. Maybe you will legalise it? Do you know that in FRY blood revenge was punished with death penalty? How do you expect Serbia to let its 300K citizens to be left to the mercy of blood revenge and pshychopaths?
Then again I didnt hear any Kosovo albanian politicians ready to give any kind of apology to the terros KLA has done to the Serbian people. President of Serbia, Boris Tadic stated in several interviews that he is willing to make an apology. On contrary your politicians are feeding you with hatret.

Dardania 2006 said...

Dear Ivan,

My grandfather's name was Ivan, he was Croatian.

About the apologies, no Serb leader will make any such deed because they will be assasinated. It would ruin the myth of Serbian "divinity" (Na nebu zivi bog Srbin).

Now this all works out well, apologies and all, in a civilised world. And yet our "war criminals" get acquited and are found not guilty (Limaj and soon Haradinaj), and you ask us (our leaders) to apologise for things that have not happened.

Imagine a country where 96% were Serb and only 100,000 were Albanian...that would be carnage just like it was in 1999 and in Bosnia.

Now you can play the "i am a humanist" card on us, the bottom line is:

You want Serbia to rule over 2 milion people that are NOT Serb, and do not WANT to be associated with that country.

Please don't give me the story how "Kosovo is the cradle of your culture".

It's not, there is nothing more than Churches which in essence are not national elements but religious and as such are inhabited in different times during our histories by different "institutional churches".

I think you can figure out what this means...

Have a good life and start cleaning up your own country,

ivan said...

Dardania,

then asnwer to me why should 300K Serbian people live under the rule of 1.7K Albanian, when in fact they want to stay living in Serbia? If you care so much about peoples wishes, allow those people to live in their country. Why are you so much against the division of Kosovo?

As for havung 100K albanians surrounded by Serbs scenario, let me remind you that this exists, and they still live there in peace with their Serbian neighbours.

Let me just remind you that in center of Belgrade you can find Albanian shops, that run business succesfuly. In center of Belgrade muslims live, carrying their religious clothing and practicing in peace their religion. What would happen if I went to Prishtina and I spoke in a shop in serbian language? I think you know the answer, my head would not be on my neck.

I personally went to Vrsac, a town in Vojvodina, where Serbs, hingarians, Romaninas, ALBANIANS, and Muslims all live in harmony. At the entrance you can find an Orthodox church, and in the center of the city you can find a big Catholic church as well as a mosque. There are no tensions, and everybody is allowed to speak their own language and practice their own beliefs. NAme me one town or village where Serbs can practice their culture or relgion in Kosovo & Methoja without of fear of being killed or attacked on?

When a psychological ill person wants to be cured, the first and the major step to his cureness is to admit that he is ill. Serbia has admited that and now we are in therapy to become healthy. But you Kosovo albanians are far away from admiting that you are ill ( try to read between the lines. Ill does not mean really ill, but means concious about its countries or peoples actions).

Dardania 2006 said...

"then asnwer to me why should 300K Serbian people live under the rule of 1.7K Albanian, when in fact they want to stay living in Serbia? If you care so much about peoples wishes, allow those people to live in their country. Why are you so much against the division of Kosovo?"

Division of Kosova has only to do with the real reason why Serbia wants to hold on to this territory. Money. It is funny, again you prove our point that Serbia is narrow minded, you say Kosova must remain in Serbia because 100,000 Serbs want that. When I say 2 milion Albanians don't want to be known as Serbian citizens, you say they cannot ask for that.

"As for havung 100K albanians surrounded by Serbs scenario, let me remind you that this exists, and they still live there in peace with their Serbian neighbours."

Where were you in 1999? From 1989 to 1999? It took only 40,000 official Serb troops, a large number of paramilitaries and my own neighbours to come and do things you can probably imagine very well. I am sure you've heard stories in bars, on how they "slaughtered Siptars (derogative by Serbs used for Albanian) like rabbits".

"Let me just remind you that in center of Belgrade you can find Albanian shops, that run business succesfuly. In center of Belgrade muslims live, carrying their religious clothing and practicing in peace their religion. What would happen if I went to Prishtina and I spoke in a shop in serbian language? I think you know the answer, my head would not be on my neck."

First, why you pointing out "muslim". Are you trying to play the religion game here? Ok, I am Catholic, and guess what I speak Croatian in the streets of Prishtina when I am there, and I have some news for you, noone heeds a word of what I say, noone cares.

"I personally went to Vrsac, a town in Vojvodina, where Serbs, hingarians, Romaninas, ALBANIANS, and Muslims all live in harmony. At the entrance you can find an Orthodox church, and in the center of the city you can find a big Catholic church as well as a mosque. There are no tensions, and everybody is allowed to speak their own language and practice their own beliefs. NAme me one town or village where Serbs can practice their culture or relgion in Kosovo & Methoja without of fear of being killed or attacked on?"

Practice religion? You are trying to turn this into a religious issue. In the cities where Serbs live Serbs can practice their culture, speak their language, and be themselves as long as they are not calling for Empirial Serbia to rise and rule over those that do not seek it.

"When a psychological ill person wants to be cured, the first and the major step to his cureness is to admit that he is ill. Serbia has admited that and now we are in therapy to become healthy. But you Kosovo albanians are far away from admiting that you are ill ( try to read between the lines. Ill does not mean really ill, but means concious about its countries or peoples actions)."

Serbia has not addmitted anything. That is a plain lie. You maybe have, personaly, but your country as a whole has not.

And stop turning this into a religious issue, we know very well how atheist Serbia really is and how much the fascade of religion is nothing more than a vehicle for achieving the goal of Serbia ruling over "mentaly ill nations".

It's a Serbian saying that goes: "Croats are the catholic Serbs, Bosniacs are muslim Serbs, Montenegrins are southern brothers, and Albanians are geneticaly deformed Serbs".

Now let's talk about "ill" and tell me which country has to get rid of its racist ideology that drives its existence and culture?

Bottom line, we don't want anything to do with a country called Serbia.

Simple, I do not trust a single Serbian government, police, militay person, and I am NOT Serb, I am Kosovar (half Albanian half Croat) and no Serb Serb on the face of this planet will hold my country and birthplace hostage and under terrorism.

ivan said...

"Division of Kosova has only to do with the real reason why Serbia wants to hold on to this territory. Money. It is funny, again you prove our point that Serbia is narrow minded, you say Kosova must remain in Serbia because 100,000 Serbs want that. When I say 2 milion Albanians don't want to be known as Serbian citizens, you say they cannot ask for that."

what money are you talking about? How is money related to the division of Kosovo? As a matter of fact what ever we would keep from Kosovo it would cost us money, because this land has deterioated during the last 6 years. The only reason why Serbia wants to have Kosovo divided is to prevent the masacre of 300K Serbs.

"Where were you in 1999? From 1989 to 1999? It took only 40,000 official Serb troops, a large number of paramilitaries and my own neighbours to come and do things you can probably imagine very well. I am sure you've heard stories in bars, on how they "slaughtered Siptars (derogative by Serbs used for Albanian) like rabbits"."

If Serbia really wanted to ethnically clense you, you wouldnt be alive today. As I said before I do admit that there were paramilitary troops that did crime, and I am ashamed of it. But it was not the Serbian politics to ethincally clense you. As stated above, during the NATO campaign Serbian military could have easily clensed more than a milion of albanians, and now you wouldnt be 2 mil as you state but less than 500K.


First, why you pointing out "muslim". Are you trying to play the religion game here? Ok, I am Catholic, and guess what I speak Croatian in the streets of Prishtina when I am there, and I have some news for you, noone heeds a word of what I say, noone cares.

Yes I am putting religion in place here because your people destroyed more than 100 Serbian Orthodox Churches. If above is true what you say, then tell me why were Bosniaks killed in Prishtina only because they spoke Serbian?

"Practice religion? You are trying to turn this into a religious issue. In the cities where Serbs live Serbs can practice their culture, speak their language, and be themselves as long as they are not calling for Empirial Serbia to rise and rule over those that do not seek it."

Otherwise what would happen to these Serbs? masacre them? Is this how your future country will function? You will shoot their innocent children, you will destroy their houses, you will rob old Serbian people? Albanians in Preshevo and Bujanovac are calling for a Great Albania, and no one was punished for that. Hungarians in Vojvodina are having meetings calling on Great Hungary and no one was punished for that. Who is now racist. Read your comment and think about it a bit.


"Serbia has not addmitted anything. That is a plain lie. You maybe have, personaly, but your country as a whole has not."

Need I to remind you that President Marovic and President Tadic publically exchanged apologies with Croatia and Bosnia. It was on Serbian national television where we showed the masacre of Srebrnica. It was the Serbian President Tadic who went to Srebrenica to pay respect to the dead. What did your politicians do to apologize for the tragedy put on to Serbian people in Kosovo and Methoja.

"And stop turning this into a religious issue, we know very well how atheist Serbia really is and how much the fascade of religion is nothing more than a vehicle for achieving the goal of Serbia ruling over "mentaly ill nations".

It's a Serbian saying that goes: "Croats are the catholic Serbs, Bosniacs are muslim Serbs, Montenegrins are southern brothers, and Albanians are geneticaly deformed Serbs"."

Sorry I am a Serb, and I never heard of Serbs connecting Albanians to the Serbian race. All other is true, but we always said Albanians have nothing in common with Serbs. Serbia was an athiest nation, but the Serbian Orthodox church plays nowdays a very important role in peoples lives. You should come to see churches on Sundays, you cant find space to stand. We are proud of our religion.

"Now let's talk about "ill" and tell me which country has to get rid of its racist ideology that drives its existence and culture?

Bottom line, we don't want anything to do with a country called Serbia."

Kosovo is Serbian, morally and oficially, recognized by the international community. I live in Belgium, if I dont want to live in that country or with Belgium people, the only choice i have is to go back to my country. Albania is not far.... think about it.

"Simple, I do not trust a single Serbian government, police, militay person, and I am NOT Serb, I am Kosovar (half Albanian half Croat) and no Serb Serb on the face of this planet will hold my country and birthplace hostage and under terrorism."

What should all the Serbian children say if Kosovo becomes independent. they dont want to be Albanian, do they have the right to form a military group and fight for independence? Or what should all the Serbian children that were born in Germany say? Do they also have the same right to fight for independance since they dont want to live door to door or under the country that killed their grandfathers?

Pomoz Bog!

Dardania 2006 said...

"what money are you talking about? How is money related to the division of Kosovo? As a matter of fact what ever we would keep from Kosovo it would cost us money, because this land has deterioated during the last 6 years. The only reason why Serbia wants to have Kosovo divided is to prevent the masacre of 300K Serbs."

Last 6 years? Are you trying to tell me that before 1999 it was good and prosperous? Are you trying to tell me that 90% of the population that was Albanian were allowed to get education and work?

"If Serbia really wanted to ethnically clense you, you wouldnt be alive today."

I assume you would know this very well. Serb will to ethnicaly cleanse is very strong. Of course you failed because the world has had enough of Serbian barbarism. Everyone saw Bosnia.

"As I said before I do admit that there were paramilitary troops that did crime, and I am ashamed of it. But it was not the Serbian politics to ethincally clense you."

It was not the Serbian politics and policy to attempt genocide? What planet are you living on? Look at what policies of Ethnic Purity and Supperiority were drafted by the Academy of Sciences in Belgrade, by the Radical, Socialist and Democratic parties of Serbia. I cannot believe you claim something like this.


"As stated above, during the NATO campaign Serbian military could have easily clensed more than a milion of albanians, and now you wouldnt be 2 mil as you state but less than 500K."

It bothers me that you are actualy thinking about the logistics of how to murder 2 milion Albanians.

"Yes I am putting religion in place here because your people destroyed more than 100 Serbian Orthodox Churches. If above is true what you say, then tell me why were Bosniaks killed in Prishtina only because they spoke Serbian?"

Those Bosniacs were killed because you dreamt of it. Let's assume 100 murders happen. 97 of them are related to criminal activity (crime/drugs/alcohol etc), the other 3 are also of the same nature but the participants/victims are of other ethnic background. You will claim this was ethnicaly motivated. You could be very wrong.

All you do have is my word, from an Albanian/Croat, that yes, I can speak Croatian (which sounds more like Serbian unfortunately) in Prishtina. And a Bosniac can be easily differentiated from both Croat and Serb.

"Otherwise what would happen to these Serbs? masacre them? Is this how your future country will function? You will shoot their innocent children, you will destroy their houses, you will rob old Serbian people?"

This has till now been the Serbian way and I can assure you that you will not have the pleasure of seeing Albanians turn to war criminals like your brothers in Serbia.

"Albanians in Preshevo and Bujanovac are calling for a Great Albania, and no one was punished for that. Hungarians in Vojvodina are having meetings calling on Great Hungary and no one was punished for that. Who is now racist. Read your comment and think about it a bit."

Albanians in Presheva and Bujanovac are asking what is fair. If you want to hold Kosova hostage, they will hold Serbia hostage. You have more to loose. But clearly, you speak of "ethnic tolerance" then please do give some rights to Albanians in Presheva and prove that you are not a racist. We rebuilt those "100 churches".

"Need I to remind you that President Marovic and President Tadic publically exchanged apologies with Croatia and Bosnia."

We are talking about apologies to the Kosovar people.

"What did your politicians do to apologize for the tragedy put on to Serbian people in Kosovo and Methoja."

Our politican was acquited of war crimes. Found NOT guilty. The other is walking around freely cause he will not be found guilty. Apologise for what? Actualy having a brain and dumping you?


"Sorry I am a Serb, and I never heard of Serbs connecting Albanians to the Serbian race. All other is true, but we always said Albanians have nothing in common with Serbs. Serbia was an athiest nation, but the Serbian Orthodox church plays nowdays a very important role in peoples lives. You should come to see churches on Sundays, you cant find space to stand. We are proud of our religion."

Sure you haven't heard of that saying...btw I was in Belgrade, Sveti Sava right smack in the middle...not as full as you claim. I will try and get some pics just to shut you up.

"Kosovo is Serbian, morally and oficially, recognized by the international community. I live in Belgium, if I dont want to live in that country or with Belgium people, the only choice i have is to go back to my country. Albania is not far.... think about it."

And yet I was born in Kosova and you want me to move to Albania? If I move to Albania, then all Kosovar Serbs must move to Serbia. The land will be left empty. It would only be fair.

I have a better idea. You pay for moving 2 milion Albanians, and we pay for moving 300,000 Serbs.

"What should all the Serbian children say if Kosovo becomes independent. they dont want to be Albanian, do they have the right to form a military group and fight for independence? Or what should all the Serbian children that were born in Germany say? Do they also have the same right to fight for independance since they dont want to live door to door or under the country that killed their grandfathers?"

See this is your problem. You dwel in the past. You are now talking about Germany from 60 years ago.

Those Serbian children, since you are so inclined to speak of children, are not guilty of any crimes and given that Albanians have shown they are not child murderers they are safe.

Now you wana talk about Children? How about this: Prishtina after June 99, sometime around September, some mentaly ill person was left behind by his Serb family (talk about love for each other) and this dude puts on a police uniform...he survived funnily enough, but you should have seen the children in my neighbourhood. I have never witnessed such outburst of trauma.

Peace be with you dear Serb living in Belgium...

ivan said...

"Last 6 years? Are you trying to tell me that before 1999 it was good and prosperous? Are you trying to tell me that 90% of the population that was Albanian were allowed to get education and work?"

I guess in the last six year Kosovo economy prospered? I guess the unemployement figure of 60% tells quite good about the economy. You did not get education and work becuase you boycoted the Serbian institutions. When Serbian government placed the law where every employee should sign that he is faithfull to the republic of Serbia, albanians decided to leave their jobs. I work for an american company, and I signed hundereds of documents where I state that I am faithfull to my compnay and the country I work in. If I dont sign this I have to leave the company.

"I assume you would know this very well. Serb will to ethnicaly cleanse is very strong. Of course you failed because the world has had enough of Serbian barbarism. Everyone saw Bosnia."

You are just manipulating my words.
Try some better arguments.



"It was not the Serbian politics and policy to attempt genocide? What planet are you living on? Look at what policies of Ethnic Purity and Supperiority were drafted by the Academy of Sciences in Belgrade, by the Radical, Socialist and Democratic parties of Serbia. I cannot believe you claim something like this."

Please, give me a break. Show me a link or a source to this to believe your phantasy. OR shall I ask you about the concept of Great Albania?

"It bothers me that you are actualy thinking about the logistics of how to murder 2 milion Albanians."

I guess manipulation of words, or your inability to read between the lines is pretty strong.

"Those Bosniacs were killed because you dreamt of it. Let's assume 100 murders happen. 97 of them are related to criminal activity (crime/drugs/alcohol etc), the other 3 are also of the same nature but the participants/victims are of other ethnic background. You will claim this was ethnicaly motivated. You could be very wrong."

the Bosniaks killed in Kosovo were businessmen, selling bricks in Kosovo. There is nothing criminal about that. But then again you albanians are so innocent, you never commited a crime. You must have been placed from heaven to earth. Let me just ask you a question, how is Albanian mafia making its money? Drugs, prostitution, child pornography?


"All you do have is my word, from an Albanian/Croat, that yes, I can speak Croatian (which sounds more like Serbian unfortunately) in Prishtina. And a Bosniac can be easily differentiated from both Croat and Serb."

I dont believe your word. Find a better argument.





"Albanians in Presheva and Bujanovac are asking what is fair. If you want to hold Kosova hostage, they will hold Serbia hostage. You have more to loose. But clearly, you speak of "ethnic tolerance" then please do give some rights to Albanians in Presheva and prove that you are not a racist. We rebuilt those "100 churches"."

what rights dont the Albanians in Preshevo have? Are they discriminated when it comes to work? No, I personally know a company in Belgrade that has an employee who is albanian from Bujanovac. Can they practice their religion? Go and see if one mosque has been burnt. Do they have freedom of movement? You have albanians in Belgrade, Vojvodina, and nobody attacks them when they travel. Do they have right to edcuation? In Vrsac Albanian children sit at the same desk as Serbs. Now answer all of these questions about the rights of Serbs in Kosovo-Metohija.




"Our politican was acquited of war crimes. Found NOT guilty. The other is walking around freely cause he will not be found guilty. Apologise for what? Actualy having a brain and dumping you?"

what about for 100K people that were forced out of their houses. My friends family was forced out of Prishitina, by your hero KLA. The knife was put to her fathers neck, and they were told that they have 5 minutes to take their personal belongings and leavo Kosovo-Metohija. What about for the children that were killed while swimming in a lake? what abou the bus attacks, when old people and children go to buy food in the near cities.



"Sure you haven't heard of that saying...btw I was in Belgrade, Sveti Sava right smack in the middle...not as full as you claim. I will try and get some pics just to shut you up."

Hey, give me some better arguments please.


"See this is your problem. You dwel in the past. You are now talking about Germany from 60 years ago.

Those Serbian children, since you are so inclined to speak of children, are not guilty of any crimes and given that Albanians have shown they are not child murderers they are safe."

Is that why you kill innocent children while playing. Let me remind you again that the whole world has condemned your monstrous cowrdly killings of Serbian children while swimming in the lake. You dare to speak that you have shown how caring you are. Waht about throwing rocks at the bus that is also transporting children. I guess throwing stones at kids is the way you show that you love and care about them.

Dardania 2006 said...

"I guess in the last six year Kosovo economy prospered? I guess the unemployement figure of 60% tells quite good about the economy."

Actualy funny you mention this. Before 1999 unemployment was 100% among the Albanians and now its 60%. That is called moving forward.

"You did not get education and work becuase you boycoted the Serbian institutions. When Serbian government placed the law where every employee should sign that he is faithfull to the republic of Serbia, albanians decided to leave their jobs."

Because that Republic was proclaming us as non-human, subspecies. Now please be honest...you must remember all the talk on RTS (Radio Television Serbia) about how Siptars (derogative used by Serbs for Albanians) are "multiplying like insects".


"I work for an american company, and I signed hundereds of documents where I state that I am faithfull to my compnay and the country I work in. If I dont sign this I have to leave the company."

That is precisely what we did. We left. We left you to your own little racist world. We do not want to deal with it. Your problems are yours only.


"You are just manipulating my words.
Try some better arguments."


Cornered are we?

"Please, give me a break. Show me a link or a source to this to believe your phantasy. OR shall I ask you about the concept of Great Albania?"

Google it. I will at least let you dig your own dirty laundry. I am not touching it. Besides quite a bit of it is available in print (that way you cant manipulate it ;)

Great Albania? Greater anything was invented by Serbs. Your colonial little empire tried taking even Dalmatia, Slavonia, Hercegovina...now please tell me that is also "cradle of serbian culture"? I was born in Kosova, I am not going to Belgrade to claim it as my land. Serbs went to Split, to Dubrovnik and tried to take it.

"I guess manipulation of words, or your inability to read between the lines is pretty strong."

Your abilirty to think of logistical implications on murdering 2 milion Albanians are more worrisome since they are fuled possible racism.

"the Bosniaks killed in Kosovo were businessmen, selling bricks in Kosovo. There is nothing criminal about that."

Again, business...only bricks? How do we know? It could be any kind of bricks...

"But then again you albanians are so innocent, you never commited a crime. You must have been placed from heaven to earth. Let me just ask you a question, how is Albanian mafia making its money? Drugs, prostitution, child pornography?"

Child pronografy...great now we have another addition to the stereotype being built by Serbs. Then how is the Serbian mafia making money? Selling flowers? Mafia is mafia...or are you trying to tell me ALL Albanians are mafia? That train of thought only proves that all Serbs are racist.


"I dont believe your word. Find a better argument."

Why? Cause I am Croat and Albanian? Would you feel better if I told you I have family in Belgrade (Serb side not blood related to me) that is sick and tired of blind and dogmatic people like you? That cry themselves to sleep for what their country has become?

"what rights dont the Albanians in Preshevo have? Are they discriminated when it comes to work? No, I personally know a company in Belgrade that has an employee who is albanian from Bujanovac."

You personaly know an Albanian in Belgrade? Impressive. My father employes two Serbs right close to Gracanica. What are you trying to prove? No they don't have all the rights. They need schools in their own language, libraries, representation in the Serbian Parliament. This they still don't have.

"Can they practice their religion?"

You know very well how secular Albanians are. You know we don't care much about religion.

"Go and see if one mosque has been burnt."

There has been burned Mosques, but that belonged to the Bosniacs.

"In Vrsac Albanian children sit at the same desk as Serbs."

Are they tought the same history book that I had in my hands in 1988? The one where Albanians are not mentioned at all? Did you know that Serbian history books have no mention of "Albanian"?

"Now answer all of these questions about the rights of Serbs in Kosovo-Metohija."

Once we become a state Kosova will have e-learning, books, CD-s, DVDs of all sorts for all its little students. And I will not allow fokls like you to stop that.

"what about for 100K people that were forced out of their houses. My friends family was forced out of Prishitina, by your hero KLA. The knife was put to her fathers neck, and they were told that they have 5 minutes to take their personal belongings and leavo Kosovo-Metohija."

See the difference? That KLA Hero was not a hero but a criminal, he was not following the HQ policies and orders. I happen to know of those orders and they were strict "No Civilian Casualties", the unspoken order and command was "Do not become like our enemy".

"Hey, give me some better arguments please."

What better arguments? Aparently I know your culture better than you do. I am suspecting you never lived in Serbia.


"Is that why you kill innocent children while playing."

Not me, nor my government, nor my soldiers. Some criminal that should be hanged yes. But this criminal is not fueled by racist politices and dogmatic concepts of superiority the way Serbian forces were.

"Let me remind you again that the whole world has condemned your monstrous cowrdly killings of Serbian children while swimming in the lake."

Did you know that when Serbian forces murdered most of the victims were infact underage?

"aht about throwing rocks at the bus that is also transporting children. I guess throwing stones at kids is the way you show that you love and care about them."

You are ridicilous. You want to hijack the future of my children so they serve as puppets to your silly little racist mind by trying to suggar-talk about children?

Then please, for God's sake, say sorry here and now to the children of Kosova who have witnessed crimes commited by your soldiers, paramilitaries, police and civilians.

The problem, such an apology is neither sufficient nor can it be taken sincere from someone who is so closedminded.

You should seriously consider reading some Buddhist literature, there is plenty of wisdom there which will help you through life.

Be in Peace dear Ivan,

Ron said...

Screw you Ivan.
Finally Kosova is free and it is not worthy discussing who is right and who is not. Important is that we got rid of you and people like you once and for all.

And as per your saying : "Go back to Albania" I would say to you:

GO BACK TO CAUCASS WHERE ALL YOU SLAVS CAME FROM TO OCCUPY OUR LANDS.

Anonymous said...

Ivan,

dude you can live in your world of dreams and search-wikipedias, and read all anti-Clinton, anti-US, conspiracy-theories web pages but the fact of the matter remains that SERBIA initiated all the wars in former Yugoslavia. You can blame Slovenia for wanting to leave, you can blame Germany for recognizing too early Croatia, you can blame Izetbegovic for his islamic ties but in the end my friend, it was YOUR fellow countrymen that killed, massacred, introduced ethnic cleansing and reintroduced concentration camps in the Balkans at the end of 20th century!!!! It was your government that led military campaigns killing, raping innocent civilians and most notably unborn children and women. So if I was you, I would focus more on trying to explain to your kids, what the fuck were you guys thinking. It probably will suck to be a Serb in the next 100 years, when everybody in the world in their history text books will learn about barbaric people called SERBS in the Europe, that killed more then 7000 people only in ONE DAY, expelled more then 1 million in two months. Well my friend, instead of trying to search for justice and world conspiracy theories that is by default ANTI-SERB, I suggest you turn to yourself and the people you belong too and try to learn what the fuck were you thinking!!!
No surprise that today NOONE wants to leave close or in unity with you. Montenegrians, people that speak your language and belong to the same religion want to go as far as they can from you. Surprised? Not me.
As for Kosovo. Its gone my friend. It was gone the same day, you thought of killing us. I have to remind you that in the last 6 years, Serbia has had no political, economical or military impact whatsoever in Kosova. We know the impact it tried to have, usually negative by infiltrating their thugs to create instability so you can show the Western world that Kosovars are not capable to run their country. well my friend, you tried but failed. Kosova will become independent. Its inevitable.
Now if I was in your place, except in trying to explain to your children "why are you so geneticly BAD PEOPLE" I would also try to explain to Kosovo Serbs that their future is in independent and sovereign Kosovo. If you care as you say for your Serbs in Kosovo, be realistic with them. Be honest and tell them that Kosovo is lost. That Kosovo was never Serbian to begin with and they should seek a prosperous future in the NEW AND INDEPENDENT KOSOVA.
Should you fail to do this, I cannot imagine any other scenario for the remaining Serbs in Kosovo except leaving. Dont be fooled. South of Mitrovica there are more Serbs then you think off and should you encourage them to leave in the event of Kosova's independence, March events of 2004 will look like a spring break compared to what's in store for them.
But one should expect one fucked up move from you guys. You are born fucked up.

Anonymous said...

Ivan,

dude you can live in your world of dreams and search-wikipedias, and read all anti-Clinton, anti-US, conspiracy-theories web pages but the fact of the matter remains that SERBIA initiated all the wars in former Yugoslavia. You can blame Slovenia for wanting to leave, you can blame Germany for recognizing too early Croatia, you can blame Izetbegovic for his islamic ties but in the end my friend, it was YOUR fellow countrymen that killed, massacred, introduced ethnic cleansing and reintroduced concentration camps in the Balkans at the end of 20th century!!!! It was your government that led military campaigns killing, raping innocent civilians and most notably unborn children and women. So if I was you, I would focus more on trying to explain to your kids, what the fuck were you guys thinking. It probably will suck to be a Serb in the next 100 years, when everybody in the world in their history text books will learn about barbaric people called SERBS in the Europe, that killed more then 7000 people only in ONE DAY, expelled more then 1 million in two months. Well my friend, instead of trying to search for justice and world conspiracy theories that is by default ANTI-SERB, I suggest you turn to yourself and the people you belong too and try to learn what the fuck were you thinking!!!
No surprise that today NOONE wants to leave close or in unity with you. Montenegrians, people that speak your language and belong to the same religion want to go as far as they can from you. Surprised? Not me.
As for Kosovo. Its gone my friend. It was gone the same day, you thought of killing us. I have to remind you that in the last 6 years, Serbia has had no political, economical or military impact whatsoever in Kosova. We know the impact it tried to have, usually negative by infiltrating their thugs to create instability so you can show the Western world that Kosovars are not capable to run their country. well my friend, you tried but failed. Kosova will become independent. Its inevitable.
Now if I was in your place, except in trying to explain to your children "why are you so geneticly BAD PEOPLE" I would also try to explain to Kosovo Serbs that their future is in independent and sovereign Kosovo. If you care as you say for your Serbs in Kosovo, be realistic with them. Be honest and tell them that Kosovo is lost. That Kosovo was never Serbian to begin with and they should seek a prosperous future in the NEW AND INDEPENDENT KOSOVA.
Should you fail to do this, I cannot imagine any other scenario for the remaining Serbs in Kosovo except leaving. Dont be fooled. South of Mitrovica there are more Serbs then you think off and should you encourage them to leave in the event of Kosova's independence, March events of 2004 will look like a spring break compared to what's in store for them.
But one should expect one fucked up move from you guys. You are born fucked up.

Kristian said...

To: Ivan

"The point that we are trying to make is that, yes Serbs have committed crimes, and we do apologize for that. Those crimes do not represent the serbian population as a whole, but rather a very small percentage of criminals."

So by your statement or reasoning, then the KLA was a small percentage (not the majority of the ppl at all), not even a tenth of a percent of the population. Way smaller then your number that committed crimes (but taking population into consideration) it still doesn't add up. There were more sebs that encouraged violence on Albanians.

Some reports, and again none of this can be 100% right but these were the figures given during the time period. When the first KLA attacks started there were less then 100 members when they attacked and killed the 4 serbians. And when the war started they were outnumbered 20 to 1. So there were 2000 thousand KLA member that grew to 10000, but serb military personnel grew as well during this time. My point is that bc of this small group EVERY ALBANIAN WAS BRANDED A TERRORIST!

WHY did the serbian population make such an assumption? Was it the propaganda that was fed to the serbian ppl? Or ppl just wanted to exterminate any remnance of these ppl in Kosovo/a?

Serbia is willing to make an apology and to deal with its past. But I have not read anywhere in your post, that you Albanians are willing to make any of such commitments.

One simple question? When the jews were being slaughtered, executed, raped, pillaged, etc. Did they have to APOLOGIZE to the Germans? I believe the answer is NO! You know Kosovo/a, throughout the world, is considered the second Halaucost of Europe in the 20th century!

Now for those Albanians that did commit any atrocities they should apologize to the serbian families of KOSOVO/A, not to belgrade. If they are tried in Hague and our found guilty they should make an apology. As far as I know Milosevic still hasn't apologized to anyone, not even to the ppl of FROY, not even to serbians.

Rugova who was the President then (and still is) never incouraged ppl to commit atracoties but pleaded relentlessly that peace is the means to a resolution. So the elected officials apposed the KLA.
And so did the ppl. But when ppl were massacred, shot, raped, women while pregnant had their wombs slit, the ppl of kosovo/a thought that this was it, either fight or die. And again those ppl were a small number, majority fled.

Serbian children have been killed in Kosovo& Metohija after 1999. I font remember exactly the date opr the place, but I do remember that the UN has conemned such an act.

I and many albanians condemn such acts and if you want I'll apologize to you for that. I sincerely think that if it was an adult that committed such an act they should be hung. That my friend has never been our way. If the person was in their teens then they should be jailed, killing them would not be fair for they know not. For all we know you and myself, it could of been done by the serbs themselves to get media coverage. I'm not saying that it was but that possibility shouldn't be excluded. Only GOD, that child, and the person who committed that act know for sure.

Kristian said...

To: Ivan (continued)


How do you plan to become a modern european country when you approve blood revenge. Maybe you will legalise it? Do you know that in FRY blood revenge was punished with death penalty? How do you expect Serbia to let its 300K citizens to be left to the mercy of blood revenge and pshychopaths?


You see your saying that I approve, I DO NOT! And the majority of albanians do not. To answer your question it was legalized some 500+ yrs ago by the law book of Lek Dugagjini.

Your last statement you just generalized the whole populations as being "pshychopaths" and "blood revenging" or in simpler words blood thirsty. You are dead wrong for you do not know albanians if you make such broad statements.

That is the mentality that should be faught (the WAR against GENERALIZTIONS) as I have previously stated before education will overcome such generalizations.

"President of Serbia, Boris Tadic stated in several interviews that he is willing to make an apology. On contrary your politicians are feeding you with hatret."

If Tadic is a person of charecter, then why doesn't he make such an apology first. You know how much that would resonate in Kosovo/a and to the world. It would show that he has matured and is willing to move on. And if the ppl of serbia they would accept his view and move onwards. BUT IN REALITY HE HAS NO BALLZ!

Its like when you pledge to give money, you can say an outlandish number, but what you actually give is what truly counts and its never the amount originally offered. That is where your Tadic is. He is scared that if he does so its like political suicide and gives a wrong impression that he has given up on the Kosovo/a issue.

Again I urge you to PRAY FOR PEACE! No matter what happens the balkans lands will always be there. You and I, I uh don't thinks so. But I'd like to see my kids and my grandkids look back and say "how retarded were those ppl back in the 90's, I'm glad we live in a place where we all get along."

Mir said...

Kristian...

"Ask your MUSLIM SERBIAN BROTHERS in B&H they will tell you a few things about the innocent being slain."

If you honestly believe that the BiH wars were so one-sided, then you are just another victim of biased-media. Both sides were absolutely insane. The problem is that the West shows only one side and tries to make the situation black and white. What they don't show is the videos of how the Muslim army gouged out Serbian soldier's eyes, Cut heads off, skinned heads for the skull, skinned bodies, etc. Ultimately we have paid the price for all that is our fault and more in the balkan wars and I can accept that.

"You should be ashamed of yourselves. For in your bible and my bible and in the Koran life is precious and "thou shalt not kill" should have some meaning to you."

I am not religious. I wear a cross like most Serbians but it is because it is culture and tradition. So using a religious saying against me dosen't mean much :P. Apparently the TRUE rule is Thou Shalt Not Kill (unless the person you are killing is an evil demon-infested Serb). I have nothing against Albanians racially. I have a big problem with how our ENTIRE population got portrayed.

Mir said...

"But one should expect one fucked up move from you guys. You are born fucked up."

... right... and Serbians are the only racists... my ass.

Anonymous said...

Hej Mir

if you believe that the war in Bosnia was more then one sided then fuck you. Go tell that to families of people killed in Srebrenica. fucking moron. because of comments and mentality like yours nobody wants to be even close to you.

Anonymous said...

Most diplomats, US, EU are nowadays very sure that there will be no independent Kosovo. On the other hand, there will be no pre 1999 either. I have very good insight in this matter and there will be problems. The main problem is that it is impossible to make a new nation out of a bit of a sovereign country, even if that could be a simple solution. But it will not happen, you will see. So to you all...do not expect this issue to be solved quickly. Otherwise you will be very disappointed.

TD US

Kristian said...

To: Mir
If you honestly believe that the BiH wars were so one-sided, then you are just another victim of biased-media. Both sides were absolutely insane. The problem is that the West shows only one side and tries to make the situation black and white.

You still didn't get my point. HOW CAN A SERB KILL ANOTHER SERB? To me who killed who specifically is not of importance (but I do mourn all those that died and that includes every single soul be it bosnian muslem, croat, or serb). The fact that serbs as a ppl kill their own. That to me scares me. And that my friend is, in your own words, "black and white."

Apparently the TRUE rule is Thou Shalt Not Kill (unless the person you are killing is an evil demon-infested Serb). I have nothing against Albanians racially. I have a big problem with how our ENTIRE population got portrayed.

I beg to differ on your first sentence. How many serbs do you think want to kill others bc of their ethnicity? Unless Serbs in general believe that way then I'm sorry for your race, but I don't think the majority of your ppl think that way.

Kristian said...

Blame the politicians as to how you were portrayed, don't blame the world for it. You had a lot of arrogant SOB that didn't care what repracussions it would have on your nation.

Politicians are Politicians no matter where you live in the world. I don't trust them no matter who they are. I hope you feel the same way.

Remember 1991 when women were begging public authorities to stop the war for their sons were in those regions and Milesovic's son was in some resort in the black sea. How come he didn't have to serve mandatory military service as all other FROY residents? The political elite used the general population any which way they wanted. And even if you didn't like it you had to say you did bc you might be detested by others. (communistic mentality). And I'm not judging you or serbs but that was the climate of the era.

I am not religious. I wear a cross like most Serbians but it is because it is culture and tradition. So using a religious saying against me dosen't mean much :P

So tell me why is the S&M goverment crying so much about churches. Most of which were built from the '80 on wards. The TURK's had destroyed 90% of them, (just to remind you prior to 1900's). I was in Kosovo/a on vacation in 91 when the war broke out. There was this church that was being built bt pec and kline. And they used the stones from the town center monument that was built in Kline. I saw them tear it down, take the stones, saw them build the little church that probably fitted 20 ppl and there was never a single mass held in that church. And all serb historians were writing and telling the world see, kosovo/a is our land bc see we have churches there. Your government uses religion all the time for propaganda purposes.

In the '80's they televised that we are going to crackdown on demonstrations bc we must protect the minority Albanian catholics from the oppressive muslims. Then they switched to protecting orthodox serbs.

The reason I referred to the bible was bc your goverment uses it so much to impress the christian world. I would say that 70% of serbs feel the same as you about the church. Am I right or wrong in this statement?

Ok prior to the battle of Kosovo/a your kingdom was there for a brief period. The serbs are not the original inhabitants of Kosovo/a. Do you agree?

After the battle you lost the kingdom there. Do you agree?

And the TURK had it and all your lands (that you had for a brief moment in history) in its possession for about 500 yrs. Do you agree?

For 500 yrs you were not the owners of Kosovo and prior to slavs moving into the region you were not owners. Am I right so far, please do correct me if I'm wrong.

Dardania 2006 said...

Mir, there is no such video of Bosniacs taking out the eyes of Serb soldiers. You are not speaking the truth.

Mir said...

"Mir, there is no such video of Bosniacs taking out the eyes of Serb soldiers. You are not speaking the truth. "

Of course there 'isn't'. Hague refused to view it because it was too violent so I guess you are right in saying it virtually dosent exist. I think there might be one somewhere on serbianna.com but its extremely 'editted' comparing to the one they tried to show at Hague.

Dardania 2006 said...

Last anonymous poster.

You have good insight? And you are from USA?

I thought we were spreading liberty and democracy?

Kosova will be independent whether your LSD is telling you that or not (I am assuming you are hearing and seeing things).

So lets talk about "good insight". I know Holbrooke, folks in the Labour and Tory in the UK, folks over here in Helsinki, in Berlin, even Tokyo...rational people that understand the only solution is independence. People of influence and people of power just to add.

Or did I tell you too much?

The only reason why I tell you all this is to help you move on, start living please, I beg you.

Kristian said...

To: Mir

So how can you claim the land to be yours when you had lost possession of it for 500 yrs? You gained possession of it by tricking the west by ethnic population statistics. The "ppl of kosovo/a are serbs but speak albanian." That was their main argumentative point of the kingdom of serbia in the late 1800's.

Tell me today of a serb that speaks albanian and uses albanian on a daily basis.

So you lied then now the world and europe are realizing the mistake they made 100 yrs ago. Its ironic that it took 100yrs to correct this falsification of ethnic population statistics.
Mir all in all, the thing I truly want is for the whole region to be at peace as it once was. Where ethnicity is not an issue, nor is religion, etc... That ppl can live side by side and enjoy the time they have on this earth.
Peace to you Mir and to your family.

Mir said...

"The fact that serbs as a ppl kill their own. That to me scares me. And that my friend is, in your own words, "black and white.""

They weren't seen as ours through the media propaganda is an easy way to put it. It can't be explained, what happened in BiH was just insanity. Both sides slaughtered each other. To me however it seems it was a fight between religions, where Muslims werent really considered Serbians anymore. Almost NOTHING in this world is black and white, but grey.

"So tell me why is the S&M goverment crying so much about churches"

Because some of them were extremely old. They werent about the religion as much as they were about history. Those churches are the proof of the existance of Slavs and all other inhabitants in Balkans. Many survived the brutal Turkish occupation. They survived things so uncomprehendable, only to be destroyed by guerillas. Those churches are our footprint in Kosovo and its being marked away. You understand what I am trying to say?

"Your government uses religion all the time for propaganda purposes."

I think its safe to say that about almost any countries in the world? Wouldn't you agree?

"Ok prior to the battle of Kosovo/a your kingdom was there for a brief period. The serbs are not the original inhabitants of Kosovo/a. Do you agree?"

I can disagree or agree but the fact is I don't know, there arent enough concrete-proof evidences. But it's not about who's it was to me its about what it was.

"After the battle you lost the kingdom there. Do you agree?"

We were under the Ottoman Empire. But Serbia was still somewhat of a specific region within the empire.

"And the TURK had it and all your lands (that you had for a brief moment in history) in its possession for about 500 yrs. Do you agree?"

Yes, but once again we cannot verify how long it belonged before that and to who it belonged but I am open minded.

"For 500 yrs you were not the owners of Kosovo and prior to slavs moving into the region you were not owners. Am I right so far, please do correct me if I'm wrong."

For 500 years it was under Serbia which was under the Ottoman Empire. 'Prior to Slavs', this is once again an unprovable argument. Assuming the theory that humans originated from Africa is true, it could have been Slav, but it easily could have not been Slavic.

Kristian said...

Almost NOTHING in this world is black and white, but grey.

I would agree with you on that, but can we say that it was a fact that serbs did kill serbs, no matter their religious preference during the B&H war?

Because some of them were extremely old. They werent about the religion as much as they were about history. Those churches are the proof of the existance of Slavs and all other inhabitants in Balkans.

I do agree a handful were extremely old and in their original condition. The rest were just ruins and churches were build on them later in the 20th century.

As far as proving the existance of Slav, the world knows that slavs entered the region in the 6th/7th century. Nobody ever questions that. Have you ever pondered this question: Maybe the albanians were orthodox or catholic prior to being forced to convert to islam? And maybe some of those church locations were Albanian and Serbian places of worship? Your former king did convert a lot of ppl by force too. And did you ever question the region as a whole? The balkan area was the split bt east and west and of the 2 main religious churches (catholic/orthodox). So there is a chance that all ppl were of the orthodox faith or were a hybrid of christianity (catholic/orthodox) prior to the turks invading.

What is your opinion on this?

Kristian said...

I can disagree or agree but the fact is I don't know, there arent enough concrete-proof evidences. But it's not about who's it was to me its about what it was.


So what was it?

Please I hope your not one of those ppl that believes myths and legends like King Authors tale. I figure you to be smarter then that. Think of the time period. There wasn't even running water. Kings and peasants lived pretty much alike. You had slavery, and you or eye would of probably been a peasant unless we belong to the royal family. Ppl were barbaric and wars were faught face to face with swords and not with todays military gear. Life was cruel in those times. From our perspective today it would be a pessamistic view how how ppl lived back then. Since you mentioned Africa, go to a country there today and it would probably resemble how living conditions were back then.

Please do inform me of what it was, bc I'd truly like to be informed.

There were no freedoms and rights as we have them today. Whatever the king said was law and there were no ifs and or buts about it.

ivan said...

Kristian,

what you descriebed above is how majority of Serbs live in Kosovo-Metohija today. Except add another factor that they are constantly living under the fear that their albanian neighbours will decide to do some blood revenge.

I suppose you live outside of Kosovo-Metohija, and I would like to ask you if it is legal in that country to perform a blood revenge?

As for the period Serbia was a state before it got occupied by the Ottoman Empire, I will give you some fact. The first Serb-organized state emerged under Časlav Klonimirović in the mid-10th century in Rascia, and Serbia was occupied by the Ottomans in the mid 14 century. During the Ottoman Empire Serbia was an autonomous region, and the demographics in Kosovo during the Ottoman Emptire result of having more than 70% of people decalring that they were Serbs and less than 20% declaring that they were albanians.

So to answer your question, Serbia was approximately 400 years an independent internationally recognized state prior to Ottoman occupation. US your big brother in this unmoral theft of the Serbian land, about 200 years old.

Anonymous... take it easy. We are having a discussion here...

Dardania,

read the comments Mir and I worte. then compare them to your fellow countryman named Anonymous. Now be objective and tell mewho is here racist and tollerable?

just a quote to remind you..."Hej Mir if you believe that the war in Bosnia was more then one sided then fuck you."

I think that both Mir and I are trying to say the same thing, yes we did comit crimes and we are ashamed of it. But crimes were comitted on Serbs as well, and I want other people to be ashamed of that as well. that what Mitar means by saying not everything is black and white.

Your countryman Kristian feels ashamed for the killings of innocent children. Thats a start and the direction we all should go to.

Kristian said...

what you descriebed above is how majority of Serbs live in Kosovo-Metohija today. Except add another factor that they are constantly living under the fear that their albanian neighbours will decide to do some blood revenge.

Seriously, you are narrow minded and think that all the albanians are bent on revenge. And Albanians are blood thirsty. Lets remind you and the Serbian ppl who killed childred first and committed atraucious acts (killing of women while still pregnant by slitting their wombs, not to mention how many kids). WHAT DID THE KID IN THE WOMB HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? You have one incident and are using it as if it were being done all over Kosovo/a. Remember the milatary and a lot of resident serbs committed these crimes. And residents is a key factor. I understand that if given an order in the milatary you must follow, but the residents always had a choice bc they lived there and didn't have to follow the regime and its policy.

Kristian said...

Maybe you should re read what I wrote! I do condone blood feuds and so do the majority of the ppl. And to answer your question of the US there is one area throughout the lands where it is permicable and US law has no bearing on that matter. INDIAN LANDS! Do they still practice it no, but they do have that right and US law can't intefere.

During the Ottoman Empire Serbia was an autonomous region, and the demographics in Kosovo during the Ottoman Emptire result of having more than 70% of people decalring that they were Serbs and less than 20% declaring that they were albanians.

I do agree that it was a state of some sort, but not as we consider it today. And just to remind you bounderies were not set as they are today and adhered to. The kingdom was a joining of principalites/tribes into one head of state. And each one fueded and seized power whenever they could get a chance.

Serbia was not as autaunomous as you claim it to be. And there are plenty of books in belgrade that prove my statement. There were times it enjoyed more freedoms than at other times but it wasn't set in stone that it was autonomous during the whole 500yr occupation.

I'm sorry who's statistics are you using? And from what year?

Are you using S. Gopcevic data?

Or his reasoning of how he got his data: Of the first, many still celebrate their Slava and whole families have their patron saint ... in Elbasan there are many crypto-Serbs, that is, people who speak Serbian, their mother tongue, at home, Christians who celebrate their Slava but who, in public, represent themselves as Moslems and speak only Albanian !"

And many other rationals that he used to scew data and make the apparent ppl of Kosovo at the end of the 1800's seem to be serb when other folks from around the world seem to differ with his observations.

Based on Slava you going to rationalize that ppl are automatically serbian?

Nacertanije was key in determinng who was serb and to show that more serbs lived in areas than did not. And S. Gopcevic goal was not to show the true ethnic makeup, but to propagate and implement Nacertanije into becomming reality.

Another thing that no serb mentions: Albanians never wrote their own history, bc they were not even allowed to practice their language nor open up their schools until the 20th century. After Nacertanije, serbs immediately opened schools as a means to gain territory. And territory that was lost for 500 yrs.

ivan said...

Kristian,

make up your mind. In your previous post you said that you are sorry abou those kids, and now you turn the situation around again.

I am not narrow minded to think that all of Kosovo albanians are blood thirsty revengers. But it was you who told me that blood revenge takes place in Kosovo-Metohija by the side of albanians and apparently your authorities are not able or unwilling to stop that.

Let me just ask you , why during the March attack on Serbian people by the Kosovo albanians were the serbian houses clearly marked with an X. If it was civil unrest, how come none of the albanian houses got burnt? And then you tell me how Kosovo albanians are tolerable...

By the way, I am waiting on your response regarding the self ruling state of Kosovo under Nazi germany, and also about the fact that Serbia as a state existed 400 year prior to the Ottoman occupation. IF you dont know how to answer, please feel free to say so :)

Kristian said...

They did this not only to Kosovo/a but to bulgaria, and other neighbors through a pact with greece to gain territory. It is more like stealing territory to create a greater serbia or in greece's case a greater greece. If the land was so autaunomous Ivan why did the kingdom of serbia set camp in belgrade and make it their new capital.

ivan said...

"They did this not only to Kosovo/a but to bulgaria, and other neighbors through a pact with greece to gain territory. It is more like stealing territory to create a greater serbia or in greece's case a greater greece. If the land was so autaunomous Ivan why did the kingdom of serbia set camp in belgrade and make it their new capital. "

Kristina i dont understand to what does this post relate to. Who did what to Kosovo-Metohija? Sorry but please clarify your post so i could reply to you.

Anonymous said...

Dardania 2006. 7.40 post.

You do not have to insult with LSD and similar stuff. If you dont want to hear what I know do not read further.
I have first hand insight in the matter, if you want it or like it.
I tell you honestly, maybe the most simple solution would be to grant Kosovo independence, but, and I think you know this, it is not that simple.
First of all, no one, and I say it again, no one, except Kosova media, Kosova politicians and Switzerland, have ever stated that Kosovo WILL gain independence. Many have stated against and many have stated maybe and many more have guessed yes or no, but the fact remains.
I have through my channels done some quick research among the most important countries(not 100% accurate, but fairly) who is for, against and the ??.

For: Switzerland, Albania.

Against: Romania, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Russia, China, Austria, Cz-rep, Slovakia, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Greece, Bulgaria.

??: US, G Britain, Turkey, Croatia, Germany.

And then you have the nordic countries, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark who were unsure before March 2004, but have sin ce that change to no or ??.

This is the fact Dardania 2006, whether you or me like it or not.

In the end of the day, the UN security council must pass a resolution. This resolution must be granted by the five permanent member states, ie, everybody must say yes. Do you think they will ? I very much doubt it. I doubt it so much that i would bet 10000 dolars with you if I knew you.

TD US

Dardania 2006 said...

"You do not have to insult with LSD and similar stuff. If you dont want to hear what I know do not read further."

I am not insulting you. It would be your choice to use any sort of narcotics and I would never judge you for it.


"I have first hand insight in the matter, if you want it or like it.
I tell you honestly, maybe the most simple solution would be to grant Kosovo independence, but, and I think you know this, it is not that simple.
First of all, no one, and I say it again, no one, except Kosova media, Kosova politicians and Switzerland, have ever stated that Kosovo WILL gain independence."


You say you have insight, then you say noone has stated thus basing your claims on what was publicised.

"I have through my channels done some quick research among the most important countries(not 100% accurate, but fairly) who is for, against and the ??.

For: Switzerland, Albania.

Against: Romania, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Russia, China, Austria, Cz-rep, Slovakia, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Greece, Bulgaria.

??: US, G Britain, Turkey, Croatia, Germany.

And then you have the nordic countries, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark who were unsure before March 2004, but have sin ce that change to no or ??."


Well first off, you are wrong about Finland and Sweden. You are also wrong about Croatia and Turkey. UK, US and Germany are maintaing publicly neutral status becuase if they said they are for independence Serbs would start weeping and whining.

The Netherlands and Belgium are also in support of the most realistic solution, and that is Independence.

"In the end of the day, the UN security council must pass a resolution. This resolution must be granted by the five permanent member states, ie, everybody must say yes."

Russia and China will abstain. And even if the SC by some chance votes NO, the Kosovars will fight for their independence and I can assure you that no Serb military or police power will ever be safe in Dardania.

"i would bet 10000 dolars with you if I knew you."

I will count that as lost income then. I dont gamble, its a silly thing to do.

The bottom line is, maybe a country will be against independence but the fact remains that this is the only realistic solution.

Let me ask you this, lets assume Kosovars are denied independence, would you dare visit Kosova?

ivan said...

Kosovo& Metohija can not be taken away from Serbia without Belgrade agreeing to that. Its the truth and you know it. I guess it hurts... and that is why your PM doesent dare to talk to Beograd.

If it was to be done on contrary, what kind of message will be send to the world. Take weapons, kill, disobey your countries rules, and you will get independance

Anonymous said...

WASHINGTON D.C. -- Wednesday –
(Voice of America)
Former US ambassador Thomas Milady said that granting Kosovo independence is an unrealistic option.

Milady, who works for the Washington Institute of World Politics, said that independence is an unrealistic option for Kosovo especially at this time, when chief standards such as the protection of minority rights in the region and political and religious freedoms have yet to be implemented.

“I visited Kosovo in May and June, and Belgrade in December. The Serbian politicians and religious leaders with whom I spoke are worried about the future status of Kosovo. I hope that a solution to the question will be found without the use of violence and through compromise and understanding.” Milady told Voice of America.
It seems like many countries have changed their standpoint regarding Kosovo future, a US congressman told VOA.
/////////////

Mir said...

"And even if the SC by some chance votes NO, the Kosovars will fight for their independence and I can assure you that no Serb military or police power will ever be safe in Dardania."

1: Kosovars fighting against a world decision would be completely idiotic and you would likely lose international allies.

2: No Serb military or police has ever been safe in Kosovo to begin with.

3. It's called 'Kosovo' not 'Dardania'.

4. If Kosovo loses support from former allies for starting another war, Kosovo (alone) will not have the financial or economic strength/infrastructure to defeat the SCG Army. So war is only leading yourself to death.

Kristian said...

By the way, I am waiting on your response regarding the self ruling state of Kosovo under Nazi germany, and also about the fact that Serbia as a state existed 400 year prior to the Ottoman occupation. IF you dont know how to answer, please feel free to say so :)


First let me say my blogs are all connected but when I try to post them it only allows so much to be posted. The blog you were confused about was from the previous blog etc...

I have written several times that Serbia was a state, but not as one we think of today prior to the occupation of the turks. No one dinies that. As far as all the regions it occupied, hmm that is debatle bc borders changed so much that the only evidence we have is of whatever book survived that era. *The Illyrians and Albanians never wrote much so they are historically disadvantaged.* And the kingdom was a federation of principalities. Had all of them stuck together maybe the turks would of never penetrated the balkans. We're all at fault for that.

Kosovo under the Nazi's:
The ppl enjoyed more freedoms then at any other time in the last 500yrs under the ottomans. They finally could open their own language schools. And could self govern themselves. What is the question you are asking? Do you want to give you a synopsis of what it was like then?

Dardania 2006 said...

Serbs from Serbia,

There are 2 milion of us who dont want to date you, get a hint!

If you are willing to come to Dardania (Kosovo) and produce Serb war criminals then you are welcomed, seems like you are still thirsty for blood.

Shallom

P.S. neither of you said anything new or gave any strong arguments.

If you ever do get around to visiting Dardania make sure you come with an open mind and with a clean heart.

Peace again

Mir said...

"There are 2 milion of us who dont want to date you, get a hint!"

Amd theres 8 million of us, get the bigger picture.

"If you are willing to come to Dardania (Kosovo) and produce Serb war criminals then you are welcomed, seems like you are still thirsty for blood."

Yep im bloodthirsty because Im an evil demon-possesed Serbian that dosent want to do anything but kill and destroy everything becaue I am the devil's servant. :| Seriously get over the propaganda, stop looking up and down, black and white, high and low, and look in the middle. NOTHING is black and white.

"If you ever do get around to visiting Dardania make sure you come with an open mind and with a clean heart."

The land is called Kosovo, follow the laws or go live back in Albania. The land is legally ours.

Anonymous said...

To Mir.
The land is under UN protectorat and,is going through the process of status determination to change that 1244 rezolute that you call it"legally".The land belongs to people who live there,that means to 90% albanians and 10% other minorities.

follow the laws or go live back in Albania. The land is legally ours.


Stop being an hypocrite.All the things you wrote before sound as pure bullshit,after the last 2 lines.That is the main reason of serbian ethnic cleansing, genocide and deportation towards albanians.

Kosova especialy never been a serbian land,was inhabitated by the illyrians(albanians ancestors).It is well known that slavic people are not natives of the balkans.Following the serbian logic Italy should claim belgrade, and all the lands that the roman empire ruled once upon the time.

Anonymous said...

To Ivan
Secondly, there isnt an academic proof that the Illyrians and Dardanias are the ancestors of modern albanians. So you could make any stories you want and relate yourself to them, but unless academically justified, these are just stories.

This slavic guy tells some better stories about the serbs and their albanian-illyrian issue.

THE QUESTION OF ILLYRIAN-ALBANIAN CONTINUITY AND ITS POLITICAL TOPICALITY TODAY

Dr.Alexander STIPCEVIC

The question has for years been obscured by political arguments that have frequently prevailed over academic ones. Of course, this is not the first such case in history. On the contrary, it is enough to recall the way in which Italian archaeologists at the time of fascism attempted to justify Mussolini’s conquests in the Mediterranean basin, how the Greeks today exploit data for the sake of their plans to annex Northern Epirus, and how the Serbs claim that any place where Serbian monuments or graves are found must belong to the Serbian state.

There is no need to recall other similar cases, for those we have mentioned suffice to show how archaeologists have placed their skills at the behest of national politics and ideology. Serbian archaeology and historiography have subjected the Albanians in general to such treatment, especially in Kosova.

After World War II, but especially after the serious events in Kosova in 1981, Serbian archaeologists set to work to refute the theory of the Illyrian ethnic of Albanians.

They are indeed not the first to cast doubt over the historical continuity between the Illyrians and the Albanians. Some specialists, especially Germans, including C. Pauli, H. Hirt, G. Mayer, and F. Cordignano , raised the question of the origin of the Albanian language and the Albanians in general. On the basis of what they considered to be scientific data they drew conclusions that disagreed with the theory that the Albanians are an indigenous population. Even though we do not today agree with their conclusions, we must emphasise that their arguments had no political or still less anti-Albanian overtones, and that they must be taken into consideration with proper seriousness when the problem of the ethnogenesis of the Albanians is discussed.

The politicisation of the problem that was later to become the hallmark of Serbian archaeology and historiography began with the Croat linguist Henrik Baric, who had close ties with Serbian academic and political circles. (6) Baric was a very capable linguist, but the motives impelling him to formulate his Thraco-Moesian theory of the origin of the Albanians remain dubious. His theory rests on linguistic data. The fact that the same linguistic material can be used in support of such diverse theories may alarm any student approaching this problem. Without denying linguists their right to formulate their conclusions on the basis of linguistic material, we must say that there also exist today a large quantity of archaeological, anthropological, ethnological, and ethnomusicological data. The large amount of research in recent decades has thus made it much easier today to tackle the problem of the ethnic origins of the Albanians than 50 or 100 years ago. The result achieved by workers in different disciplines in recent decades have reduced the importance of the work that relied on now obsolete linguistc evidence, and have made the autochthony of the Albanians, i.e. increasingly indisputable.

This conflict between new scientific result and the defenders of now obsolete theories is a phenomenon that can be explained by the increasing politicisation of the issue of Albanian ethnogenesis. In fact, the theory of Albanian autochthony has never been disputed with such determination and savagery as today, precisely when so much scientific proof has been produced in its support. Nevertheless, the number of researchers still today refusing to take into consideration the many arguments supplied by different academic disciplines has shrunk, or, more accurately, absolutely the only researchers who deny the theory of Albanian autochthony are Serbian. (7) Serbian archaeologists and historians began long ago to dispute the autochthony theory, but this opposition increased especially after the great Albanian revolt in Kosova in 1981. It was therefore a consequence of a political event rather than of new scientific data.

The Serbian archaeologist Milutin Garasanin represents a special case. In 1955, he wrote an article in the Prishtina periodical "Përparimi", in which he asserted that the Albanians are the direct descendants of the Illyrians. ( In the years that followed, Garasanin increasingly fell into line with other Serbian researchers who denied any such descent. This shift became still more evident in connection with the problem of the ethnic allegiance of the Dardanians, who inhabited the Kosova region. This problem became one of the most disputed in archaeology and history, assuming apolitical character after 1981. The Serbs vigorously attacked the idea that the Dardanians were ethnically Illyrian. Not because they were led to this conclusion by scientific evidence, but purely because Kosova was "the cradle of Serbian history" and "holy soil" for the Serbs, and as such could not have been inhabited by a people that were of Illyrian stock and hence claimed by their descendants, the Albanians.

In the past, Serbian researchers had not always been of one mind in allocating the Kosova region to the ancient Daco-Moesians. Milutin Garasanin himself, in his survey of prehistoric Serbia in 1973, openly admits that on the basis of their place names and personal names the Dardanians can be considered Illyrians, and that a Thracian and perhaps Dacian element is evident only in the eastern parts of their territories. (9)

However, when the Serbian Academy of Arts and sciences in 1986 organized a series of conferences on the ties between the Illyrians and the Albanians, this same Garasanin announced that the Dardanians cannot be considered Illyrians because they were ethnically more closely connected with the Daco-Moesian substratum. (10)

It is easy to explain this change in Garasanin’s stand. We are now in a period of history in which relations between the Albanians and Serbs of Kosova, and not only within this region, have dramatically deteriorated and no Serbian researcher can freely express his opinion over the Illyrian-Albanian question without exposing himself to the danger of changes of high treason.

It would be impossible to trace here the progress of the press, television, and radio campaign waged by Serbian researchers against the idea of Albanian autochthony. It is enough to recall an entertaining incident in this campaign which took place in Zagreb in 1982. Two years previously, in 1980, the first volume of the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia (Secon Edition) had been published, in which there were two entries, one entitled "Albanci" (Albanians), and the other "Albansko-Jugoslavenski odnosi" (Albanian-Yugoslavian relations). On pages 75-79, the Albanian historian from Kosova, Ali Hadri, had written the part of the entry under "Albanci" that dealt with "the origin and development of the Albanian people," in which he stated that the Albanians are the descendants of the Illyrians. The linguist Idriz Ajeti said the same, considering the Albanian language a successor to the Illyrian tongue.

When this volume had come off the press, the Albanian revolt in Kosova had broken aut, and when the Serbian edition of this same book was under preparation, the Serbian representatives on the Encyclopaedia’s central editorial board rejected the text that had already been published in the Croat edition (which they themselves had approved), and insisted that the two entries should be reformulated according to the ideas of Serbian historians. A long and bitter debate then took place within the editorial board, and was soon reflected in the Zagreb and Belgrade newspapers.(11) Ten contributions from historians and archaeologist were commissioned in order to prepare new versions of these entries.

At that time, the Serbian members of the editorial board could not impose their ideas on others. This meant that the new version that was printed in subsequent editions of the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia included textual changes in the sections dealing all mention of the continuity between the Illyrians and Albanians.(12)

Although unable to change what had already been published in the Croat edition, the publisher of the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia printed the new versions of the two entries and sent them to subscribers, requesting them to insert them in the appropriate place.

The debate within the Encyclopaedia’s editorial board was also echoed in political circles. At the ninth Congress of the Serbian Communist Party held in Belgrade on 27-29 May 1982, a bitter argument broke out over the ethnic origins of the Albanians. The congress of a political party was of course not the proper place to discuss an academic problem of this kind, but the question had apparently assumed a political character and could not be confined to academic circles.

It was nothing les than the incident involving the two entries in the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia that became the spark setting off this unexpected debate at the Serbian Communist Party: Congress. The Albanian linguist Idriz Ajeti referred to this scandalous incident in his speech in order to show that many Serbian researchers and journalists were politicising the issue to the extent that only a political forum could settle it, by political means.

Disgusted by the assaults of the newspapers, Professor Ajeti movingly defended at this congress the theory of the linguistic ties between the Illyrian and Albanian languages, and also the ethnic continuity between the Illyrians and the Albanians (13).

His speech met with an immediate response in the congress hall.

Pretending not to understand why a purely academic problem should become a discussion topic at a political congress, the Serbian historian Jovan Deretic asked in pathetic tones what point there was in politicising the question of the Albanians’ ethnic origin.

Why should the Albanians be the descendants of the Illyrians and not of the Thracians ? There was no point in dragging this question out of its academic context – on condition that the Thracian theory was accepted. The Illyrian theory could not be correct, simply because it was an expression of Albanian imperialism, nationalism, etc. (14) According to Deretic, the Illyrian theory had "a slight whiff of racism" that reminded him of the theory of a pure Aryan race, "and we know very well who inspired that theory." (15) Immediately after Deretic, Petar Zivadinovic took the floor. Zivadinovic was elected a member of the Central Committee of the Serbian Communist Party at this congress. For him, science had still not solved the problem of the ethnic origins of the Albanians, but, although he had never dealt with such academic questions, he knew very well that the Albanians could not be descended from the Illyrians.

The historian Sima Cirkovic also though that the Illyrian theory "stank of racism." (16)

The newspapers at this time were full of articles about the speeches at the conference. "Politika," a Belgrade newspaper with little tolerance for the Albanians, published an article under the headline, "No Campaign, But Creative Criticism."

This newspaper apparently did not stop to consider that this stream of articles written by people who did more to compromise these authors than the Illyrian theory of the ethnic origin of the Albanians.

The book "The Albanians and Their Territories," published by the Albanian Academy of Sciences in Tirana in 1982, and in an English edition in 1985, caused considerable commotion. Albanian authors from Kosova were attacked especially harshly because their work demonstrated the autochthony of the Albanians in the province of Kosova. (17)

These authors attempted in vain to explain that all the articles included in this volume had been previously published in Yugoslavia and were therefore common knowledge long before the book appeared. (1 The attacks persisted because this book discussed what was the most delicate political problem in Kosova.

The campaign against the Illyrian theory intensified alongside the progressive deterioration of the political situation in Kosova. Serbia’s best-known historians appeared on the scene, including the linguist Pavle Ivic, who proceeded to ruin a large part of his own scientific work in order to prove that Serbian and Croatian are a single language. He had never tackled the problems of the Illyrians or Albanians, but it nevertheless emerged that the Albanians could only be of Thracian, not Illyrian origin.

In an interview for the Belgrade weekly NIN, Professor Ivic listed the linguists who have considered the Albanian language a descendant of Thracian and then recalled the well-known but now obsolete argument that the Albanians could not have lived on the Adriatic and Ionian coast, because they possessed word for fish.

According to Professor Ivic, the problem of the Illyrian origin of the Albanians is complicated, but there is nevertheless no question of any doubt that the Albanians are not descendants of the Illyrians and are therefore not indigenous to the province of Kosova. This is precisely what the journalist interviewing him and the magazine’s readers wanted to hear. (19)

A controversy then sprang up in the pages of this magazine between Professor Ivic, Mehmet Hyseni, and Shkelzen Maliqi. (20)

On one hand, all this controversy and debate encouraged the Albanians to study more deeply the problem of their ethnic origin from the archaeological and ethnographic point of view, while it drove Serbian researchers to the point of denying the results of their own work. In 1982, when this problem had become an inflammatory one in what was then Yugoslavia, the Academy of Sciences in Albania organised a national conference on the formation of the Albanian people, their language, and culture. At this conference, which was attended by many foreign historians, many specialists tried to present all the evidence that their different academic disciplines could offer to solve the problem of Illyrian-Albanian continuity. (21)

As in reply to this conference, the Serbs had the idea of organising in Belgrade, under the auspices of the Serbian Academy of Arts and Sciences, a series of conferences that were to tackle problems also dealt with in Tirana. The conferences, that were attended solely by Serbian historians, took place in May and June 1986. Their papers were later published in a book, in Serbian and French editions. (22)

A careful reading of the contributions of Ms. F. Papazoglu and Professor M. Garasanin reveals at least a kind of uncertainty in their arguments. These writers sometimes even imply that they do not favour an unconditional rejection of the Illyrian theory of the Albanians’ ethnic origin.

Of course, writers of propaganda have paid no attention to the academic evidence, and have not grasped these authors’ doubts, but only the evidence that suit their anti-Albanian campaign. Aware of the simplification which the complicated problem of the Albanians’ ethnic origins had undergone, professor Garasanin was careful to point out that the Albanians are undoubtedly a palaeo-Balkan people and that the Illyrian element played a part, albeit a minor one, in their formation.

Garasanin asserted that there can be no question of a direct continuity between the Illyrians and the Albanians, because the Illyrians disappeared from history during the five centuries of Roman occupation. The Albanians are therefore a people who were formed in the middle ages from small remnants of peoples, including the Illyrians, who inhabited the western Balkans in classical and mediaeval times.

There is no need to continue. However, we would like to end by emphasising that the misrepresentations of the Serbian academic community in connection with the ethnic origin of the Albanians are part of a long and painful story of abuses of this kind, which have been nothing but political propaganda paving the way for military repression. This is the meaning of the way for military repression. This is the meaning of the campaign by Serbian historians and journalists against the autochthony of the Albanians in the lands they inhabit.

References:

"Oratio fratris Vincentii Priboevii sacrae theologiae professoris ordinis praedicatorum De origine successibusque slavorum, "Venetiis, 1532. Modem bilingual (Latin and Croatian) edition by Professor Grga Novak (Vinko Pribojevic, "O podrijetlu i zgidama Slavena," Zagreb, Jugoslovenska akademija znanosti i umjetnosti, 1951. Compare Pribojevic’s ideas on pan-slavism with Professor Novak’s introduction to his 1951 edition, and to Alois Schmaus, "Vincentius priboevius, ein Vorlaeufer der Panslavismus," in "Jahrbuecher fuer die Geschichte Osteuropas," I, 1952, pp. 243-254; Veljko Gortan, Sizgoric i Pribojevic," "Filologija," 2, 1959, pp. 149-152.
The history of the illyrian idea among the slavs has been written Reinhard Lauer, "Genese und Funktion des Illyrischen Ideologems in den suedslawischen Literaturen, 16. Bis anfang des 19. Jahrhunderts," in "Ethnogenese und Staatsbildung in Suedosteuropa," Klaus-Detlev Grothusen, Goettingen, 1974, pp. 116-143.
Ljudevit Gaj, "Tko su bili stari Iliri?," "Danica ilirska," 5 (1839), Nr.10, pp.37-39; Nr.11, pp.41-43; Nr.12, pp. 46-48; Nr. 13, pp. 49-51; Nr.15, pp. 58-59.
For example, S. Popovic, "Skiti, Iliri, Slavi," in "Letopis Matice srpske," 64 (1844) pp. 67-80.
Bogoslav Sulek, "Sta namjeravaju Iliri?" Beograd, 1844. See the historical commentary on this pamphlet by Antun Barac, Hrvatska knjizevnist, I. Knjizevnost ilirizma, zagreb. Jugoslovenska akademija znanosti i umjetnosti, 1954, pp. 43-44, etc.
See his studies, "Ilirske jezicne studije," Rad. JAZU knj.272, 1948, pp.157-208; "Poreklo Arbanasa u svetlu jezika," in "Lingvisticke studije," Sarajevo, 1954, pp.7-48; "Mbi origjinen e gjuhës shqipe," "Jeta e re." 4, 1952, Nr.3, pp. 205-211.
There are exceptions, e.g. Slobodan Jovanovic, "Jugosloveni i Albanci," "Ideje: Casopis za teoriju savremenog drustva," 1987, Nr. 5-6, pp. 181-185.
Milutin Garasanin, "Ilirët dhe prejardhja e tyre," "Përparimi," 1953, Nr.6, pp. 323-331.
Milutin Garasanin, "Preistorija na tlu SR Srbije," vol.II, Beograd, Srpska knjizevna zadruga, 1973, p. 523.
Milutin Garasanin, "Zakljucna razmatranja," in: "Iliri i Albanci," Beograd, 1988, p. 362.
Ibro Osmani, "Dogovor o spornim tekstovima?," "Vjesnik," 19 June 1982, p.17; Ibro Osmani, "Kriterium i vetem – ai shkencor," "Rilindja," 19 June 1982, p. 12; Milos Misovic, "Kuda ide Jugoslavija?" "NIN," Nr. 1,678, 27 February 1983, p.31-32.
The Prishtina historian Ali Hadri strongly rejected the objections raised by the Serbian group on the editorial board in a long reply that was published in Albanian under the title "Reply to Comments on the Historical Text of the Entries "Albanians," and "Albanian-Yugoslav Relations" in the Encyclopaedia of Yugoslavia," published in the review "Kosova," Nr.11, 1982, pp.217-259. A summary of this text was published in the Zagreb weekly "Danas," Nr. 16, 8 June 1982, p. 14.
His report was published in prishtina: "Mbi origjinen ilire të gjuhës shqipe," "Rilindja," 29 May 1982, p.14.
Jovan Deretic, "Cemu sve to sluzi?," "Danas," Nr. 16,8 June 1982, pp. 62-63.
This assertion was strongly criticised by the Croat writer Ivan Lovrenovic in his article, "Miris kao kriterij," "Danas," Nr. 17, 15 June 1982, p. 17.
For further information about this dispute, see Teodor Andjelic, "Ilirsko-albanske enigma," "NIN," Nr. 1,640, 6 June 1982, pp. 30-32.
Milos Misovic, "Grehovi i gresnici," "NIN," Nr. 1,660, 24 November 1982, pp. 16-17.
Provodom knjige "Albanci i njihova ognjista," "NIN," Nr. 1,665, 28 November 1982, p. 2.p.
Milo Gligorijevic, "Albanija i Kosovo: seobei teritori," "NIN," Nr. 1,664, 21 November 1982, pp. 32-35.
Mehmet Hyseni, "Za nauku, bez spekulacija," "NIN," Nr. 1,666, 5 December 1982, pp. 2-3; Shkelzen Maliqi, "Mistifikacija istoriografije," "NIN," Nr. 1,667, 12 December 1982, pp. 3, 6; Pavle Ivic, "Naucna tastina radi osporovanja nauke," "NIN," Nr. 1,667, 12 December 1982, pp. 6, 19;Pavle Ivic, "Istorijski mitovi i indoktrinacija," "NIN," Nr. 1,671, 9 January 1983, pp. 6,13; Shkelzen Maliqi, "Mistifikacija istoriografije," "NIN," Nr. 1,673, 23 January 1983, pp. 2-3; Pavle Ivic, "Pravo nauke na istinu," "NIN," Nr. 1,675, 6 February 1983, p.19.
The papers of this conference were published in French, "Problemes de la formation du peuple albanais, de sa langue et de sa culture (Choix de documents), " Tirana, Editions "8 Nëntori," 1985.
Iliri i Albanci – Les Illyriens et les Albanais, Beograd, Srpska akademija nauka i umetnosti, 1988.

Mir said...

"Italy should claim belgrade, and all the lands that the roman empire ruled once upon the time"

Actually that would be following YOUR 'Illyrian' logic.

Dardania 2006 said...

Mir your name means Peace...talk about propaganda.

You see, you said:


"Yep im bloodthirsty because Im an evil demon-possesed Serbian that dosent want to do anything but kill and destroy everything becaue I am the devil's servant. :| Seriously get over the propaganda, stop looking up and down, black and white, high and low, and look in the middle. NOTHING is black and white."

Get over the propaganda? Dear Mir, I saw and experienced first hand what a blood thirsty Serb like you can do. And in that there is no gray just red.

"The land is called Kosovo, follow the laws or go live back in Albania. The land is legally ours.

Your country should have followed the basic laws and rules called Human Rights and not tried to commit genocide upon my people (both Albanian and Croat). Remember very well my words, this is the very reason why we have dumped you and are moving on in the relationship.

None of us wants to deal with your problems. When you solve your problems as a nation then see you in a United Europe.

P.S. that is to say that we as Albanians and Dardanians have also problems. And to solve them we need you to get off our necks, sucking blood is not healthy.

Dardania 2006 said...

The article that was pasted:

I had a copy of the General Encyclopedia published by Vuk Karadzic in Belgrade, this was a translated version of the original english encyclopedia, and in the Serbian version all the mentions of Albanian were removed.

Anonymous said...

JE VOULAIT SIMPLEMENET DIRE QUE KOSOVA VA AVOIR L INDEPENDANCE, MEME SI LES SERBES LE VEULENT PAS. CAR SINON IL Y AURA SUREMENT UNE GUERRE ET ENCORE UNE FOIS LES KOSOVARS LA GAGNERONS, CAR IL Y AURA LES ETAS-UNIS, LA SUISSE... QUI SERONT AVEC NOUS. ALORS JE VOULAIT DIRE AU SERBES D ARRETE DE VOUS FATIGUER CAR CET INDEPENDANCE ON L AURA. RRNOFT REPUBLIKA E KOSOVES (VIVE LA REPUBLIQUE DU KOSOVO)

Mir said...

"Mir your name means Peace"

It can also mean being calm or in a tranquil state which is why I picked it. It CAN mean peace but usually its referring to peace in a way that does not relate to war.


"I saw and experienced first hand what a blood thirsty Serb like you can do. And in that there is no gray just red."

Listen man because you dont understand what I am saying. I know that the Yugoslavian army committed war crimes in several places during the 90s. But the propaganda is how, anytime we even fought a skirmish they would claim we brutalized someone. They tell you that we slaughtered people and that our opponents didnt and they were innocent sheep. The balkans is one giant f'ed up genocidal region. If you truly believe that Croatians, Bosnian Muslims, Albanians, didn't return us the favor several times, then you believe the propaganda.

I don't deny you experienced our brutality becaues we had some messed up leaders in the wrong positions especially the army, and I CAN ACCEPT WHAT WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR. But you need to understand that genocide was happening both ways. Maybe not as much in Kosovo, but it was in Croatia/BiH. If you believe that it wasnt than I'm happy for you that you can live thinking in black & white, because I cant and black & white is a lot easier to handle.

Kristian said...

All this didn't happen in '99 but it started a long time before. A lot of Kosovo serbs didn't agree with what was happening in Kosovo/a at the time. you think that after living in peace they wanted to bring back old memories of things that had past. I think NOT! Belgrade is to blame for a lot of mistakes. And I would be more pissed off at your politicians then any serb in general!
Personally I see your government as the enemy then the ppl of serbia or any serb in the world. They use ppl to for their own personal gain. Now do you hate albanians or your politicians more? I hope its the latter.

Dardania 2006 said...

Actualy I dont blame Kosovar Serbs for anything. They have been used as much as the Albanians were slaughtered.

Some of them went on these "imperialistic trips" but most did not.

It is very unfortunate that Serbs from Serbia have no grain of respect for the Kosovars, be they Serb or Albanian or Croat.

Anonymous said...

This is one of the plans of total anihilation of Albanians in Kosova.

If you still are not satisfied I will post the 1937 version " The expulsion of the Albanians" by the Jugoslav minister Vaso Cubrilovic.The version of 1937 also talks how other similar plans have failed because the Kosovar Albanians are an autoctonous popullation

Here it goes.
This is the plan of annihilation by the Serb deputy prime minister Vojslav Sesejl.


THE SERB BLUEPRINT FOR CLEANSING KOSOVA



Deputy Prime Minister Voislav Seselj Makes It Chillingly Clear



Voislav Seselj, Serb deputy prime minister and leader of the Radical Party of Serbia, outlined this plan for the ethnic cleansing of Kosova in October 1995. It bears a close resemblance to what is happening there today. To ethnic cleansing, forced depopulation and confiscation of land, he adds suggestions for mobilizing Serb parmilitaries, psychological warfare and the elimination of Albanian leaders through bogus scandals, staged traffic accidents and the AIDS virus.

One thousand years ago, the cornerstone of Serb statehood, of its national consciousness and culture, was created in Kosova and Metohija. Ever since, no other legal state has existed in Kosova and Metohija. Of all the peoples living and working in these territories throughout this time, the roots of the Serb people are the deepest and most extensive. One cannot imagine a Serb state without Kosova and Metohija. Therefore, keeping Kosova and Metohija as an integral part of Serbia is as important as keeping the Serbian nation alive.

The migration of Serbs and the abandonment of their ancestral homes in Kosova and Metohija became the destiny of the Serb people. Ottoman rule and the atrocities of Islamized Albanians who settled there subsequently brought about conditions under which life for Serbs was impossible. People had no other choice but run as far away as they could in order save their children; run away without looking back, to abandon homes, property, the cemeteries of their grandfathers; to seek safety in Serbia or elsewhere. The migration of Serbs from Kosova and Metohija occurred between the two world wars, while the settling of Serb volunteers there -- warriors first and foremost -- maintained to some extent the Serb presence here. Regrettably, this only lasted till World War II, when, first the occupying fascists, and then the Communists resumed the driving out of Serbs and settling a great number of emigrants from Albania. During the period of time 1944-45, the Communist regime prevented the expelled Serbs from coming back and repossessing their homes, acknowledging as a fait accompli the remodeling of the ethnic structure of the region. At the same time, the Albanians were rewarded with autonomy in Kosova and Metohija which was to serve them later as a foundation for their secessionist policies. The effects of such an anti-Serb policy resulting in a great number of Serbs leaving Kosova and Metohija. Albanian usurped hundreds of hectares of both state- and Serbs-owned private land, whereas monasteries, cemeteries and other sacred places of the Serbs became subject to systematic devastation. In the late 1980s, in a bid to hold onto power, the Communist regime in Serbia announced that it would pursue a just national policy and set out to solve the Kosova and Metohija issue. Serbs were misled by the emendation of the Serb constitution, by which the decision-making authority was given back to the Parliament. On paper, Serbia became a unified state, while promises of the Serb president paved the way for the return of Serbs to Kosova and Metohija. That was an historic opportunity which the current Serbian regime failed to fulfill. The policy the Belgrade regime has been pursuing vis-a-vis Kosova and Metohija is motivated chiefly by sheer political considerations, failing thus to address the real interests of the Serb people. With the consent and pressure of international community, the regime has quietly allowed the secessionist movement of Albanians to get stronger, create de facto a parastate called the Republic of Kosova and internationalize the Kosova issue.

Once the Yugoslav federation crisis is settled, it becomes very much clear that the Serb issue must be by all means resolved through the unification of all Serb territories into a single state.

Aware of the alarming situation in Kosova and Metohija, which is deteriorating at breakneck speed; bearing in mind the treachery the Serb regime has committed against its fellow nationals in Republika Srpska and the Serb Republic of Krajina, one can easily expect the same thing to happen to Serbs in Kosova and Metohija. Distressed by statements of foreign officials who maintain that the issues of Kosova and Metohija, Raska province (Sandjak) and Vojvodina should be solved within the frameworks of the crisis in Yugoslavia; being aware that the national consciousness and the future of the Serb people is unimaginable without Kosova and Metohija as an unalienable part of the Serb state; convinced that the president of Serbia, Slobodan Milosevic, has created a blueprint for a treachery against sacred Serb land to deliver it to Albanian secessionists, we are hereby stating the following goals of Serb national policy in Kosova and Metohija, and the necessary measures for accomplishing such goals and crushing by all means the secessionist insurrection of Albanians in Kosova and Metohija. In order to thwart the effects of this insurrection, we are committed to see the following issues settled urgently:



Reorganization of the state



To reorganize the state and change the current federation and territorial autonomies because these autonomies have proven to be fatal to the Serb people. The best solution would be to design a single state that would include in it the Serb Republic of Krajina, the Republika Srpska, the Republic of Serbia and Republic of Montenegro.

The Serb state would have one president, a single parliament, a single government, while regions would be mediators between the local administrations and the the central government.

The Serb state should be a national and democratic state of Serbs and citizens and other ethnic groups, to whom all individual, civil and civic rights would be guaranteed.

The abolition of the existing autonomy of Kosova and Metohija -- by which a fatal disparity was created in Serbia and provided for the Albanians a basis to demand secession -- is the core element in accomplishing the Serb national issue.

The Serb people now carrying out a demanding struggle for the unification of all Serb lands must consider as its foremost priority the keeping of all territories within Serb borders. The complete inclusion of Kosova and Metohija into a unique Serb state is an internal matter, and it must be resolved as such and without outside arbitration by the so-called international community. A settlement of the status of Kosova and Metohija as an integral part of the Serb state as well as a settlement of all other issues related to realization of a modern and democratic state of law can only be achieved by creating a new constitution. The constitution can be promulgated by a constitution-making parliament elected in a direct ballot by all the people in the country.

The national policy toward Kosova and Metohija cannot be achieved without having it discussed by the appropriate bodies of parliament and without the consent of the legitimate representatives of the Serb people in Kosova and Metohija.

Taking into account the fact that a considerable number of national minorities live in Serbia, they would, in conformity with international standards, enjoy all individual and collective rights, i.e., the right to using their languages in judicial matters, the right to be educated in their own languages, the right to their religious services, cultural activities and so forth. However, a complementary requisite for enjoying such rights must be their obligation to show loyalty to the state of which they are citizens.



Revision of the citizen registers and citizen rights on the basis of the 1991 census



It is very necessary that the federal parliament urgently adopts the law on citizenship. The law would define the number Albanian immigrants and their predecessors, who have in an illegal way over the period 1941-1987 acquired property and other estates no one could ever achieve in any other country. There are around 400,000 such foreigners in Yugoslavia today, Such a law would prevent them from living any longer in our state. Similar standards should be applied to all citizens of the seceded republics, unless they are of Serb nationality, and to all minorities who refuse to accept citizenship in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. Some 400,000 refugees from seceded Yugoslav republics could be settled in their stead, a legitimate act of the regime. Two rules should be applied in eliminating the immigrants: those who have been proven to be extremists will be immediately expelled, while others must possess the proper documents, the most important being the citizenship certificate, something none of them of course has. This 'fatherland certificate' must have on its cover page the Serb coat of arms: the white double-headed eagle of the Nemanjics, and the crest with four Cyrillic Ss. The failure to possess this paper would be the basis for expulsion. The repatriation of Albanians temporarily working in foreign countries must be prevented, especially those who left during the 1990-1993 period (it is estimated that they number some 300,000). Employment should be denied to people of certain vocations which would compell them to leave the country. Albanians are in this respect very adept -- on the one hand because they have supporters in many countries, and on the other it fits their mentality to live in other countries. Such measures would first and foremost affect the educated portion of their population, so that the rest could be easily manipulated and not be able to organize resistance.



Revision of land ownership laws



In regard to revising ownership status a special law should be promulgated by which all Albanian-owned land and other wealth will be given back to Serbs and the Serb Orthodox Church in Kosova and Metohija. The church used to be in possession of large estates and it maintained welfare activities with the local population. By enlarging its land and estate, the monasteries could in an optimal manner perform their religious, cultural and national mission. They could also help the Serb people meet and prevent their further migration.

In the events that took place in the second half of 20th century, it was only the Serb priests who did not move from Kosova. So, owing to their patriotism and their right to inheritance, they deserve large estates. The land that was sold to Albanians or has in one way or another ended up in the hands of Albanians, especially over the period 1966-1987 (during the Communist and Ballist [Albanian National Front] rule), as well as estates acquired by Fascists during World War II, should be given back to their Serb owners or/and their successors. This could be carried out easily because Albanians in most of the cases have not built new houses but have only knocked down those existing ones so that Serbs could not have a place to go if they decided to return. Albanians have done this because they feared that the situation might change and their illegal appropriation of estates could not last forever.

During the socialist [Communist] reign, agricultural cooperatives and collectives were exclusively established on the estates and in the villages of Serbs, thus there is a serious need for reprivatization to give those estates back to their previous owners under the condition that they live on them. If not, the land should be offered to new owners. There is plenty of state-owned land that can be either allocated or sold to Serbs coming from outside Kosova and Metohija. The land must be allocated to private owners, for the state has not handled it properly. In addition, the land of agricultural cooperatives is adequate for settling on it significant numbers of colonists, who, by living there, could be more capable of developing welfare, social, defense and other activities. There is plenty of such land all over Kosova and Metohija. It is very easy to concentrate on such lands Serbs who could maintain close cooperation with other such centers to provide assistance in development. The establishment of chains of such settlements is achievable in the regions of Decan, Prizren and Suhareka, where, by expelling the Albanians, a strong defense barricade against Albania could be secured.



Changing the ethnic structure of the population



The colonization of Kosova and Metohija should be carried out quickly and conclusively. Through political propaganda, colonists could be portrayed as Serbs populating Serb land and it is all the same which part of the country they live in as long as they live in their own land. These Serbs should also be supplied with equipment and long-term loans so they can cultivate the land they are granted which would make them stay there.

Most of the Croats from Janjeva and Letnica [two Kosova regions where some Croats lived and still do], guided by ethno-centrism, left for Croatia without any pressure whatsoever. Their property has been either sold to Albanians or was plundered by Albanians from adjacent regions. Serb refugees from Croatia should be settled in those homes and estates.

Besides confiscating the land from Albanians which they illegally expropriated, all those who have pillaged the wealth and have occupied Serb territories must must pay the consequences pursuant to the Law on Banning the Repatriation of Serbs in Kosova and Metohija.

The Law on Prohibition of Selling Estates should be fully respected and all efforts should be made to have its provisions fully and properly implemented. To this end, the foremost responsibility goes to the current Ministry of Finances (Treasury) of the Republic of Serbia, which has in fact mostly not enforced that law. Ethnic expansion of Albanians onto Serb state- or privately owned land must be foiled by all means possible.

All Albanians who are not citizens -- something can be easily proved with a census -- should be fired from their jobs. All the Albanians who wish to leave will be given passports. Albanians of Yugoslav citizenship living abroad and/or involved in secessionist activities must lose their citizenship.

Taking into account the current ethnic distribution (with only a few rural Serb enclaves and over 700 purely Albanian centers, while the few Serbs in owns have been virtually suppressed by the Albanians, we consider that the colonization should be carried out in an organized fashion, through establishing of new villages, settlements, small towns or new neighborhoods in existing towns). Such places should be of a closed type with an inner form of organization, i.e., medical services, entertainment, cultural activities, etc.

In this way people can be divided along ethnic lines, while the minority Serb population in mixed neighborhoods in the towns would gradually move to the newly established enclaves, an idea which requires both support and motivation. In order to have the Serb enclaves protected, an Albanian population of 5 to 10 per cent should be installed there (a selection of distinguished families and those with authority).

Highways should be constructed (up to 1 kilometer apart -- in a process that can be called "terrain configuration -- to cleanse a wide belt through Albanian enclaves and near other sites like military barracks, polygons, depots, etc. Near such highways the land and space must be allocated to Serb colonists, which would result in thinning the Albanian population of the territories, one element that provides a feeling of security for Albanians. These moves would create a "leopard spot" pattern of Serb enclaves that would grow and eventually become larger than the Albanian enclaves.

Conquering territories in this way is more efficient than "planting" individuals in Albanian communities, for it does not raise ownership issues. The first method provides far more security for colonists, while the second is a more lasting process. The Serb enclaves would chiefly depend on state supplies and a small number of Serb-owned private firms, while Albanian areas would be supported mainly through private firms, which could be allowed to operate. The state could help private firms that don't operate efficiently. Further, electricity and water supplies to the Albanian enclaves can be disrupted to make their lives unbearable.

All this will be aimed not only at having the Albanian population divided but utterly isolated too. But if the Serbs find the neighboring enclaves of Albanians attractive (with privately owned shops, entertainment etc.), these can be eliminated by prompting incidents in those enclaves, such as beatings and violence. The fundamental prerequisite to efficiently control the flow of goods and capital is to prevent corruption in Kosova and Metohija and Serbia proper, for one has to bear in mind that Albanians are very good at cheating and bribing others.

To prevent the flow of large amounts of capital through illegal routes - money should be strictly controlled by a well-organized banking system, frequent interventions of the fiscal police, rigid control of transportation and roads, attention to any kind of major change in the market, customs procedure and trade with dealers from abroad, financing political organizations, etc. All necessary measures should be taken to thwart the functioning of the Albanian private sector through permanent restriction of their activities, which could in turn result in maintaining rigid control over the funds of their political parties. Contacts with private firms and companies in Serbia must be prevented so Albanian capital cannot have a monopoly in Serbia.

Through adequate legislation and efficient taxing policies, large amounts of money could be collected and used in financing programs like colonization .

Paramount attention must be paid to drugs trafficking. If one Albanian is caught in such an activity, that must be used as a pretext to stalk and punish large groups of them. Such cases would discredit important personalities in the eyes of the Western world. This is a particularly sensitive issue for them because Albanians are already considered the main traffickers of drugs in the world.

Rigorous measures should be undertaken against Albanian smugglers -- especially in tobacco.

All this can result in serious social tensions if one bears in mind the fact that most of the Albanian population earns its living from selling things on the streets and by smuggling, practices which inevitably results in increase of criminal/illegal activities. However, we consider that through a strong and efficient police force, it is quite easy to make people seek refuge abroad. All steps should be undertaken so the capital of Albanians be channeled through Macedonia and Albania. The issuing of papers from state authorities (besides the seizure of passports) has to be as complicated as possible, with all those who fail to possess proper papers to be oppressively fined.

Albanians like to stick to their tribal procedures in solving disputes and hate administrative intervention in the walks of life they consider important to them. Such legislation should be adopted which would force Albanians to ask for permission to even possess a cow. To promote such regulations will persuade them to go abroad, and then face serious impediments at the borders when attempting to come back. As for Serb enclaves the procedure should be less complicated, while in the cities where services are common to the whole community, like the Ministry of Interior, citizens of different nationalities should be treated in different ways.

These procedures will undoubtedly result in dissatisfaction in their community which will be a precondition for a broad readiness for involvement in various organizations, including terrorist ones. Therefore, individuals from the state security must be "infiltrated" by agents who could pretend to press for establishing such underground or/and hostile organizations, or even become the leaders of such groupings. Such ruses could be exploited by the state as a pretext to undertake uncompromising actions against all their organizations which would result in inter-ethnic tensions and a further ruptures in their parallel life. To this end, more and more such groups are needed, while the police would now and then destroy one of them, which could then be allowed to consolidate again and look like genuine and "bona fide" organizations. Political parties of Albanians should be created through specific legislation and at the same time scandals should be created to discredit them. This could discredit their leaders in eyes of the domestic and foreign public opinion, a particularly sensitive consideration for Albanians.

Distinguished individuals who play important roles in their political life should be eliminated through scandals or by staging traffic accidents, jealousy killings or infecting them with the AIDS virus when they travel abroad. Their infection would be discovered when crossing borders thus they could be quarantined. Through adequate propaganda in their mass media such events can create such an artificial picture of an intolerable percentage of infected people, which would be used as an excuse to isolate large groups of people. This would help in promoting a picture of Albanians as an infected people.



Information and propaganda



To broadcast special radio and TV programs in the Albanian language which would aim at eroding their patriarchal and tribal mentality by offering the most decadent values of the West, which can be easily adopted by primitive people. The Serb enclaves could be spared from such programs primarily owing to language barriers, as well as through establishing cable television in newly erected buildings and settlements for Serbs.

It is fundamental to establish a powerful and efficient propaganda machinery to feed international public opinion, something which has been already used.

Even an underground (secret) publishing activity must be originated to enable them to defuse the criticism against the Serb regime.

Albanians must be denied all kinds of social assistance, for it has facilitated their high birth rate. This birth rate among the national minorities of the Moslem faith has resulted in a very high population in Kosova and Metohija. Such a thing creates a demographic surplus, therefore emigration of Albanians is indispensable and could be carried out without any pressure by the Serb authorities.

A crucial element of the Serb national program is to have a third and fourth child. Serbia has enough space and economic resources to handle dozens of millions of inhabitants, hence an increased birth rate is important in every respect. In order to have the Serb birth rate increased, which would directly impact on Kosova and Metohija itself, scores of concrete actions must be undertaken, be that stimulative or restrictively, respectively.

Serb mothers who have three, four or more children should be entitled to their retirement earlier. They must be granted children's allowance, regardless their family income. Planning and enlarging of families must be the top priority of all individuals, families and entire society. Serb families with more children must be granted loans for house and private business, they must be granted apartments, they must be given jobs and other facilities and incentives to bring up their children.

It is necessary to open in Kosova and Metohija region military and police schools and academies, additional military institutions and other state institutions such as ministries which would facilitate the settling there of thousands of army officers, policemen, state clerks, together with their families, with the infrastructure needed for normal life. All the Serbs who wish to live in those areas must be given free, fertile land, construction sites, and sites for their private business. All those who locate their economic facilities there and have at least 10 employees, should be provided with abundant opportunities, such as being exempted from taxes for ten years.

Retired officers from the army, policemen and state clerks can have their accommodation/housing problems solved by allocating to them comfortable and maximally big apartments in the region of Kosova and Metohija. The border belt, a minimum of 50 kilometers adjacent to Albania should be used for settling Serbs. This would avert any danger of having the zone jeopardized, while the neighborly relationship could work in compliance with needs and interests of both sides. The border zone near Albania could be exclusively allocated to Serbs, while the rest of land would be the property of the Yugoslav army.



Education



The education system in state schools should stick to elements and values of the Serb, European and world culture and art; the instruction language must be Serbian. Open perspectives and free development in Serbia are very attractive for the minorities. Schools in languages of minorities will be treated as private, while if one wants to have a job he will need a verification proving he has completed courses pursuant to the state curricula. A careful selection and normal inclusion of all positive Serb values and structures will be included in their education in this way. Following the overthrow of the Albanian parastate, the Serb University of Prishtine has made a radical change and it is in a good way to achieve enormous results, which directly determine the fate of Kosova and Metohija and the state itself. This course should be further stabilized and promoted, in harmony with the new needs and curricula. All the efforts should be made that conditions at the Serbian University of Prishtine be more favorable than in Serbia proper.

Efforts should be made to further maintain and promote the current illegal parallel education of Albanians, because in this way they will have all the doors closed for employment and incorporation in the society. All these efforts should be made to have the population dispersed all over the world, including Macedonia and Albania. Such activities should be carried out concomitantly with various forms of pressure and creating feelings of uncertainty. All the tools, though modified to specific circumstances, should be used to prevent Albanian secessionists from having a job.



Army



In order to have the Kosova and Metohija problem solved, the Yugoslav army must be turned into the Serb army. People from the republics that have seceded from the federation must be immediately driven out of the army, in the first place all those holding commanding posts, except those who have distinguished themselves as verified and gallant combatants in defending the freedom of the Serb people. Such an army would be more consolidated and more capable to solve complicated military and war issues, and, furthermore it could be less expensive. The Law on the Army should be so severe that it would oblige every citizen of Yugoslavia to make his contribution in defense of the country, while members of national minorities could contribute with money or labor. These issues must be arranged in details by a specific law. In the vicinity of the existing military bases it is necessary to intensify the settling of Serbs, while non-Serbs must not be allowed to build houses there.

The current situation in this respect is catastrophic, therefore urgent measures are needed to have it changed. Some military facilities of a vital importance should be relocated to Serb enclaves, but at the same time they must maintain full control all over the territory of Kosova and Metohija through visits, maneuvers and other activities of the army. Within the army, it is indispensable to legalize the operation of professional Chetnik guerrilla units, who should be located in localities of strategic importance in Kosova and Metohija.



Police



The police are a very important element of the state, responsible for keeping Kosova and Metohija as the permanent property of the Serb state. However, the police must be better trained and more professional than they are now. The police must have young and educated people, while all its members must complete additional courses. The police academy will play a crucial role in this respect. Police forces in Kosova and Metohija will be exclusively involved in protecting Serb inhabitants, as an endangered people in these areas.



Public Services



The route through which the Serb army withdrew in 1915 has significantly determined the direction of a future highway (Nis, Prishtine, Podgorica, Bar), which would in a solid way connect Serbia with Montenegro and the Adriatic Sea, via Kosova and Metohija. The realization of such a project must be a priority for the public services. Even during the international sanctions and economic crisis it is possible to have a rapid progress in this direction, which would have an epochal impact on the problem of Kosova.



Defense



The current situation in Kosova and Metohija can result in unpredictable consequences, especially if outside factors aim at implementing such a scenario. Therefore, particular attention must be paid to preventive actions, first of all by seizing all kinds of weaponry, in with licenses or without them, so to neutralize all paramilitary, para-police and para- territorial defense formations. If we have to fight a war to defend Kosova and Metohija, it should be fought with all possible means and have it finished as soon as possible. No talks or agreements should start with representatives of Albanians until the law on citizenship is adopted and until it is verified the exact number of those who recognize and accept this state as a state of theirs.

To those Albanians who claim to be citizens of Serbia or Yugoslavia, respectively, the state should be more tolerant, and they can be incorporated into state and political bodies if they accept the Serb state and its laws.



A statement by Serb Deputy Prime Minister Voislav Seselj in Velika Serbija, The Greater Serbia Journal, Belgrade, Oct.14, 1995

Anonymous said...

This second plan wil be posted in parts because it is very detailed.
Part1

THE EXPULSION OF THEALBANIANS

Presented
on March 7, 1937
in Belgrade

THE EXPULSION OF THE ALBANIANS

The problem of the Albanians in our national and state life did not arise yesterday. It played a major role on our life in the Middle Ages, but its importance became decisive by the end of the 17th century, at the time when the masses of the Serbian people were displaced northwards from their former ancestral territories of Raska and were supplanted by the Albanian Highlanders. Gradually the latter came down their mountains to a fertile plains of Metohija and Kosovo. Penetrating to the north, they spread in the direction of Southern and Western Morava and, cross-sections of the Vardar. In this war, by the 19th century the Albanian triangle was formed, a wedge which abased on its Debar-Rogozna axis in its ethnic rear, penetrated as far into our territories as Nis and separated our ancient territories of Raska from Macedonia and the Vardar Valley.

This Albanian wedge inhabited by the anarchist Albanian element hampered any strong cultural, educational and economic connection between our northern and southern territories in the 19th century. This was the main reason why Serbia was unstable, until 1878 when it managed to establish and maintain continuos links with Macedonia, through Vranje and the Black Mountain of Skopje, to exercise the cultural and political influence on the Vardar Valley that was anticipated because of the favorable geographical and road links and the Historical traditions on those regions. Although the Bulgarians began their state life after the Serbs, at first they had greater success. This explains why there are permanent settlements of southern Slavs from Vidin in the north to Ohrid in the South. Serbia began to cut out pieces off this Albanian wedge as early as the first uprising, by expelling the northernmost Albanian inhabitants from Jagodina.

Thanks to the broad state concepts of Jovan Ristic, Serbia cut another piece off this wedge after the annexation of Toplica and Kosanica. At that time, the regions between Jastrebac and Southern Morava were radicaly cleared of the Albanians.

From 1918 onwards it was the task of our present state to destroy the remainder of the Albanian triangle. It did not do this. There are several reasons for this, but we shall mention only the most important of them:

1. The fundamental mistake of the authorities in charge at that time ins that, forgetting where they were, they wanted to solve all the major ethnic problems of the troubled and bleeding Balkans by western methods. Turkey brought to the Balkans the customs of Sheriat, according to which victory in War and the occupation of a country confers the right to the lives of subject inhabitants. Even the Balkan Christians learned from the Turks that not only the state power and domination, but also home and property are won and lost by the sword. The concept of the relations of private ownership of the land n the Balkans was to be softened to some extent through laws, ordinances and other international agreements issued under pressure from Europe, but this concept has been to some degree the main lever of the Turkish state and the Balkan states right to do this. We shall mention only few cases if recent rimes. The removal of Greeks from Asia Minor to Greece and of Turks from Greece to Asia Minor, the recent removal of Turks from Bulgaria and Romania to Turkey. While all the Balkan states since 1912 have solved or are on the way of solving the problems of all minorities through mass removals, we have stuck to slow and sluggish methods of gradual colonization. The results of this have been negative. That this is so us best shown by the statistics from the 18 districts which compromise of the Albanian triangle. From these figures it emerges that in those regions the natural growth plus new settlers (from 1921 to 1931 Albanian population increased by 68.060 while the Serbs show an increase of 58.745 - a difference of 9,315 in favor of Albanians). Taking into account the intractable character of the Albanians, the pronounced increase in their numbers and the ever-increasing difficulties of the colonization by the old methods, with the passage of time this disproportion will become even greater and eventually put in question even those few successes we have achieved in our colonization from 1918 onwards.

Anonymous said...

Part 2
2. Even the method of gradual colonization was not properly applied. Worse still, in a problem of such importance, there was no definite plan of such importance, there was no definite state plan which every government and regime would have to adhere to and implement. Work was intermittent, in first and starts, each new minister undid what his predecessors had done, while himself created nothing solid. The laws and regulations were amended, but even weak as they were, were not implemented. Some people, deputies especially from other regions, when they could not manage to secure the mandate in their own regions, would go to the south and butter-up non-national elements to gain the mandate, thus sacrificing the major national and state interests. The colonization apparatus was extremely costly and inflated loaded with people were not only incompetent but also frequently without scruple, so that their work truly constitutes a separate problem. Finally one need only total up the huge sums this state has invested in colonization and divide them by the number of families settled, to prove how costly every new household established since the war has been, regardless of whether or not this expenditure was met by the settlers themselves or by the state. Likewise, it would be interesting to compare the amounts paid out by personal expenditure and those for the materials used for our colonization. Serbia went about this question quiet differently in the past. Karageorge during his first uprising, as well as Milos, Mihajlo and Jovan Ristic had no special ministry of land reform, general land inspectors, or costly apparatus, and stil purged Serbia of the foreign elements, populating it with its own people, who felled the endless forests of Sumadia, which was transformed from its rough state into the fertile Sumadia of today.

3. Even those few thousand families that were settled after the war did not establish themselves where they were placed, There was more success in Kosovo, especially in the Lab Valley, where the Toplicans penetratedof their own accord, from north to south. Our oldest and most stable settlements, with elements from our different regions, were established there. In Drenica and Metohija we had no success. Colonization should never be done with Montenegrins alone. We do not think that they are unsuitable as colonists, because of their pastoral indolence. This applies only to the first generation. The second generation is quite different, more active and practical. Petrovo village in Miroc, above the Danube, the most advanced village of Kraijina is inhabited exclusively by Montenegrins. In Serbia today there are thousands of advanced economies, especially in Toplica and Kosanica which have been established by Montenegrins of the first generation, who have mixed with more advanced elements. This is especially valid for the old costumes managed to survive. A visit to the coffee-houses of Pec is sufficient to convince one of this. This is why our colonization has had so little success all over Metohija. It must be admitted, on the other hand, that these colonies have been poorly situated on unfertile scrub-covered land, and almost totally lacking in the most essential agricultural implements. But these should have been given more assistance than the others, because they are made up of the poorest Montenegrin elements.

Anonymous said...

Part 3
4. Without doubt, the main cause for the lack of our colonization in those regions was that in those regions was to take the land from the Albanians. The only possible way for our mass colonization of those regions was to take the land from the Albanians. After the war, at the time of the rebellion and actions of the insurgents, this could have been achieved easily by expelling part of Albanian population to Albania, by not legalizing their usurpation and by buying their pastures. Here we must return again to the gross error of our post-war concept. About the right to possession of the land they had usurped - scarcely any of them had title-deeds issued by the Turks, and those only for land purchased, to the determent of our nation and state, we not only legalized all these unsurpations, but worse still, accustomed the Albanians to West-European ideas about private property. Prior to that, they could have never have had these ideas. In this way, we ourselves handed them a weapon to defend themselves, to keep the best land for themselves and make the nationalization of one of the regions most important to us impossible.

From all this it is apparent that the methods of our colonization policy in the south to date have not yielded the results which we ought to have achieved and which now impose themselves on us as a major state necessity. We have not criticized these methods merely for the sake of criticism , but so that on the basis of the experience, we can find the right ways to solve this problem.
THE PROBLEM OF THE COLONIZATION OF THE SOUTHERN REGIONS

Reading the first part of this paper, one immediately observes that, in examining the problem of colonization of the southern regions, the issue is mainly about the regions to the north and south of the Sar Mountain. This is not accidental. This is not accidental. This block of Albanians around the Sar Mountain has great national, state and strategic importance for our state. We have already mentioned the way it came into existence and the importance of this region for linking the regions around the Vardar Valley firmly with our ancient territories. The greatest force of the Serbian expansion ever since the beginnings of the first Serb State in the 9th century has always been based on the continuity of this expansion, as well as on the expansion of the ancient territories of Raska in all directions, hence including the expansion towards the south. This continuity has been interrupted by the Albanians and, until the ancient uninterrupted connection of Serbia and Montenegro with Macedonia along the whole of its extent from the Drin River to Southern Morava is reestablished we will not be secure in our possession of this territory. From the ethnic standpoint the Macedonians will fully unite with us only when they enjoy true ethnic support from Serbian motherland, which they have lacked to this day. This they will achieve only through the destruction of the Albanian block.

From the military-strategic standpoint, the Albanian block occupies one of the most important positions of our country - the starting point from which the Balkan Rivers flow to the Adriatic Sea, the Black Sea and the Agean Sea. The holding of this strategic positions, to a large degree, determines the fate of the Central Balkans, especially the fate of the main Balkan communication line from Morave to Vardar. It is no accident that many battles of decisive importance for the destiny of the Balkans (Nemanja against the Greeks the Serbs against the Turks in 1389, Hanyadj against the Turks 1446) have been fought here. In the 20th century, only that country that is inhabited by its own people can be sure of its security; therefore it is an imperative duty for all of us that we should not allow these positions of such strategic importance to be in the hands of the hostile and alien element. The more so since this element has the support of the national state of the same race. Today this state is powerless but even in this condition, it has become a base of Italian imperialism, which aims to use it to penetrate into the heart of oru state. Our elements will be willing and able to defend its own land and its own state, is the most reliable means we have against this penetration.

Anonymous said...

Part 4
Besides this block of 18 districts, the Albanians and other national minorities in the other parts of the southern regions are dispersed and therefore, not so dangerous to our national and state life. To nationalize the regions around the Sar Mountain means to bury any irredentism forever.

The colonization from the north should be reduced in the regions inhabited by Macedonians. In these regions land is scarce, they are passive regions and, for this reason, the Macedonians resist the flow of settlers from the north, the more so because in these actions they see our distrust towards them. The truth is that even that small degree of colonization does us more harm than good. If people are to be sent down there south of Black Mountain of Skopje, they should be people from Vranje, Leskovac, who are closer to the Macedonians in mentality and culture and by no means the people from the Dynaric regions with their irritable uncontrolled temperament because such elements arouse the hatred of the local people. We repeat that this problem will be solved only when our colonies, advancing from the north through Kosovo and Metohija, towards the Sar Mountain, Polog meet the Macedonian settlements.

The problem of Sandjak of Novi Pazar is solving itself and is no longer playing the role it played in our state life until 1912. We shall only mention that with the removal of the Albanians, the last link between our Moslems in Bosna and Novi Pazar and the rest of the Moslem world is cut. They are becoming religious minorities, the only Moslem minority in the Balkans, and this fact will accelerate their nationalization.

Recently Montenegro has become a very grave problem. The poor land cannot sustain the population, but despite the removal this increased by 16 per cent from 1912 to 1931. Through the centuries, this turbulent pastoral element has contributed essential features in our race. Channeled in the right direction, their energies will not be destructive, but we can be employed to the general benefit of the state, if they are directed to southeast.

Summing-up

The Albanians cannot be repulsed by means of gradual colonization alone; they are the only people who, during the last millennium managed not only to resist the nucleus of our state but also to harm us by pushing our ethnic borders northwards and eastwards. Whereas in the last millennium our ethnic borders were shifted to Subotica in the north and Kupa in Northwest, the Albanians drove us from the Skadar and its region, the former capital city of Bodin, from Metohija and Kosovo. The only way and the only means to cope with them is the brute force of an organized state, in which we have always been superior to them. If since 1912 we have had no success in the struggle against the, we are to blame for this, as we have not used this power as we should have done. It is not possible to speak of any national assimilation of the Albanians in our favor. On the contrary, because they base themselves on Albania, their national awareness is awakened and if we do not settle accounts with them at the proper time, within 20-30 years we shall have to cope with a terrible irridentism, the signs of which are already apparent and which will inevitably put all our southern territories in jeopardy.

THE INTERNATIONAL PROBLEM OF COLONIZATION

If we proceed from the assumption that the gradual displacement of the Albanians through our gradual colonization is ineffective then we are left with only one course - that of their mass resettlement. In this case we must consider two states - Albania and Turkey.

Anonymous said...

Part 5
With its sparse population, it's many undrained swamps and uncultivated river valleys Albania would be in position to admit some hundred thousands Albanians from our country. With its large uninhabited and uncultivated territories in Asia Minor and Jurdistan, modern Turkey has almost boundless possibilities for internal colonization. However despite all the efforts of Kamal Ataturk, the Turks have not yet filled the vacuum created as a result of the removal of the Greeks from Asia Minor to Greece and some of the Turks to Persia. Hence the greatest possibilities are that the bulk of displaced Albanians might be sent there.

First, we stress that we should not limit ourselves to diplomatic steps with the Ankara government only, but should employ all means to convince Tirana to accept some of our displaced people. I believe that this will come up against difficulties in Tirana, because Italy will try to hinder this process. However, money plays great role in Tirana. In the talks about this question, the Albanian Government should be informed that we shall stop at nothing to achieve our final solution to this question, while at the same time we should tell them about subsidies for colonization, over which no control will be exercised; eventually, through secret channels, the notables in Tirana may be persuaded by material gain to raise no opposition to this whole business.

As we have heard, Turkey has agreed to accept some 200.000 of our displaced people initially, on condition that they are Albanians, something which is most advantageous to us. We must comply with this desire of Turkey readily and sign a convention about the resettlement of the Albanian population as soon as possible. In connection with the resettlement of the Albanian population we must study the conventions which Turks has signed recently on these questions with Greece, Rumania and Bulgaria, paying attention to two things: that Turkey should accept the largest contingent, while from the financial aspect it should be given the maximum assistance, especially in the matter of organizing their transportation as quickly as possible. Undoubtedly this problem will give rise to some international concern, which is inevitable in such cases. Over the last hundred years, whenever such actions have taken place in the Balkans, there has always been some power which has protested because such an action did not conform to its interests. In the present instance, Albania and Italy may make some protest. As to Albania, we have already pointed out that attempts should be made to conclude a convention with it over this problem and if we don't achieve this we should at least secure its silence over the question of removal of the Albanians to Turkey. We repeat that skilful action and money properly used in Tirana may de decisive in this matter. World opinion, especially that financed by Italy will be upset a little. Nevertheless, the world today has grown used to things much worse than this and should not be a cause for concern. At a time when Germany can expel tens of thousands of Jews and Russia can shift millions of people from one part of the continent to another, the shifting of few hundred thousand Albanians will not lead to the outbreak of a World War. However, those who decide should know what they want and persist in achieving this, regardless of the possible' international obstacles.

Italy, no doubt will raise more difficulties, but at present it is extremely occupied with its own problems in connection with Abyssinia and Austria and will not dare go very far in its opposition. To tell the truth, the greatest danger lies in the possibility that our great allies, France and Britain might interfere. They must be given a clear and resolute answer that the security of Morina-Vardar line in their interests, a thing which was confirmed on the last great war, and it will be made more secure, both for them and for us, only when we completely dominate the regions around the Sar mountain and Kosovo from the ethnic aspect.
THE MODE OF REMOVAL

As we have already stressed, the mass removal of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course for us. To bring about the relocation of a whole population and the first prerequisite is the creation of the suitable psychosis. It can be created in many ways.

Anonymous said...

Part 6
As is known the Moslem masses, in general, are very readily influenced, especially by religion, are superstitious and fanatical. Therefore, first of all we must win over their clergy and men of influence, through money or threats to support the relocation of the Albanians. Agitators to advocate this removal must be found, as quickly as possible, especially from Turkey if it will provide them for us. They must describe the beauties in the new territories in Turkey, the easy and pleasant life there, kindle religious fanaticism and awaken pride in the Turkish state among the masses. Our press can be of colossal by help well they have settled down in the new regions. These descriptions will create necessary predisposition to shift among the mass of Albanians here.

Another means would be coercion by the state apparatus. The law must be enforced to the letter so as to make staying intolerable for the Albanians: fines, and imprisonment, the ruthless application of all police dispositions, such as on the prohibition of smuggling, cutting forests, damaging agriculture, leaving dogs unchained, compulsory labor and any other measure that an experienced police force can contrive. From the Economic aspect: the refusal to recognize the old land deeds, the work with the land register should immediately include public debts, requisitioning of all state and communal pastures, the cancellation of concessions, the withdrawal of permits to exercise a profession, dismissal from the state, private and communal offices etc., will hasten the process of their removal. Heath measures: the brutal application of all the dispositions even in the homes, the pulling down of encircling walls and high edges around the houses, the rigorous application of veterinary measures which will result in impending the sale of livestock in the market etc. also can be applied in an effective and practical way. When it comes to religion the Albanians are very touchy, therefore they must be harassed on this score, too. This can be achieved through ill-treatment of their clergy, the destruction of their clergy, the destruction of their cemeteries, the prohibition of polygamy, and especially the inflexible application of the law compelling girls to attend elementary schools, wherever they are.

Private initiative, too, can assist greatly in this direction. We should distribute weapons to our colonists, as need be. The old forms of cetnik actions should be organized and secretly assisted. In particular, a tide of Montenegrins should be launched from the mountain pastures in order to create a large-scale conflict with the Albanians in Metohija. This conflict should be prepared by means of our trusted people. It should be encouraged and this can be done more easily since, in fact, Albanians have revolted, while the whole affair should be presented as a conflict between clans and, if need be, ascribed to economic reasons. Finally, local riots can be incited. These will be bloodily suppressed with the most effective means but by the colonists from the Montenegrin clans and the cetniks, rather than by means of the army.

There remains one more means, which Serbia employed with great practical effect after 1878, that is, by secretly burning down villages and city quarters.

Anonymous said...

Part 7
THE ORGANIZATION OF THE REMOVAL

From the attached map it is apparent what regions must be cleared. They are: Upper Debar, Lower Polog, Upper Polog, Sar Mountain, Drenica, Pec, Istok, Vucitrin, Stavica, Lab and Kacanik. Among these regions which together compromise the Albanian wedge, the most important for us are: Pec, Dakovica, Prodrimja, Goda, Podgor, Sar, Istok, and Drenica - north of the Sar Mountain as well as the Upper Debar and the two Pologs, in the south, and the Sar Mountain These are border regions which must be cleared of Albanians at any cost. The internal regions such as Kacanik, Gilan, Nerodimje, Gracanica, Lab, Vucirin, etc must be weakened if possible, especially that of Kacanik and Lab, while the others should be gradually and systematically colonized over a period of decades.

The above-mentioned means should be used in the first place in the border regions, if we wish to clear them of Albanians.

During the resettlement the following must be kept in mind:

In the first place, resettlement should begin in the villages and then in towns. Being more compact, the villagers are more dangerous. Then, the mistake of removing only the poor should be avoided: the middle and rich strata make up the backbone of every nation, therefore, they, too must be persecuted and driven out. Lacking the support which their economically independent compatriots have, the poor submit more quickly. This question has great importance, and I emphasize this because one of the main causes for the lack of success of our colonization in the south is that the poor were expelled while the rich remained, thus we were no further forward, because we gained very little land for the settlement of our colonists. During the creation of the psychosis for the resettlement, everything possible must be done to send off whole villages, or at least whole families. The situation that part of the family is shifted while others remain behind, must be prevented at all costs. Our state is not going to spend millions to make life easier for the Albanians, but to get rid of as many of them as possible. For this reason the purchase of the land of the Albanians who shift by those who remain behind must be absolutely prohibited. The shifting of individuals and whole villages must be linked with this question, if they want things made easy for them during the process of the relocation.

Once they agree to shift, all-round aid should be given them. The administrative procedure should be simplified, their property should be paid for on the spot, travel documents should be issued without the least formality and they should be assisted to get to the nearest railway station; trains should be made available for them, as far as Salonica, and thence they should be immediately shipped to Asia. It is very important, that the journey should be easy, comfortable and cheap. Possibly, the travel by train should be free and they should be assisted with food because whether or not large masses will shift, depends largely on this. The fear of difficulties on the journey will be a major obstacle to their moving. Therefore this must be combated by solving all the problems connected with the journey, quickly and energetically. Particular care must be taken to ensure that they have the fewest possible difficulties over the journey, because simple folk orientate themselves with difficulty, therefore it would be advisable to study the system of workers transport by the big travel agencies and use that. The displaced person must pass from hand to hand without feeling the burden of this movement. Only in this way it is possible to create that flow of displaced Albanians which will empty our south of them.

Anonymous said...

Part 8
POPULATING THE DEPOPULATED REGIONS

The problems of the establishment of colonies in the depopulated regions is not less important than the removal of the Albanians.

The first question emerges: Who should be settled there? The most natural thing is to people them with our elements from the passive regions, in the first place Montenegrins are the most appropriate for several reasons, because Metohija, Drenica, and Kosovo are most natural places into which they flow from their impoverished mountains. The increase of population in Montenegro has brought about poverty, which in recent times has given rise to continual socio-political unrest unfavorable to our state power and very dangerous to law and order in the future. Giving them maize and pensions is useless. The only solutions is to send them to the fertile regions of Metohija, Drenica and Kosovo. Then, since they are akin to the Albanians in mentally and temperament, the Montenegrins are the most appropriate as instruments to overcome them. In the first place, they must be used in the regions north of Sar Mountain; however along with them some people from Lican, Krajsnica, Serbia, Cacak, Uzice, and Toplica should be used as colonists. This is necessary in order to create better habits of work and organization among the Montenegrins, to break down their nomadic-group psychology, the spirit of collectivity which characterizes the highlanders, by means of mixing and intermarriage with people from various Dinaric regions; in this way a new type of Montenegrin with a less local but broader, more Serbian outlook, will be formed.

Suitable conditions should be created for the Southern Serb Emigrants living in the regions south of Sar Mountain so that they can take possession of the fertile lands. They are honest, hardworking people, who will be grateful to this state all their lives if pleasant conditions for life in countryside are created for them. The rural Southern Serbs in general have a right to expect more care and attention than we are giving them today. The colonization of Polog (Upper and Lower) and Debar with these paupers, as well as allocating pastures to them instead of the Albanians, will make them feel that this is their state, and they will know to defend its borders.

Apart from them, the colonization south of SAR Mountain and the Black mountain of Skopje can be done with Serbs from Vranje, Leskovac, Pirot and Blasenica, especially those from passive mountain villages. We repeat that the Dinarics should not be allowed to extend to the south of the line formed by the Black Mountain of Skopje and the SAR mountain.

During the colonization of the villages emptied of Albanians, it is essential to avoid bureaucratic delays and petty formalities. The first immediate action is to give the colonists title to the land on which they are settled. One of the main reasons for the lack of success of the colonization so far has been that the colonist has not felt secure on the land on which he was settled, because he did not receive title to it immediately, and thus was exposed to ill-treatment at the hands of unscrupulous clerks and politicians. The peasant feels secure in his possession of land only when he knows that no one can shift him for it. Therefore he can not have unrestricted ownership of this property. Because there are many different people among them, such as village proletarians who have lost their feeling for the land, or herdsmen who have to adopt themselves to agriculture, they must be linked with the land by the force of law. This is because they must begin to love their new regions and home, and if they, themselves, do not succeed in this, at least their children should. For this reason the colonists should be prevented by law from gaining full ownership of the land for not less than 30 years, even though they are given the title immediately. According to our law, in our country the woman does not enjoy the right of inheritance to land. In order to avoid fragmentation of the land into small parcels, women must be excluded from the inheritance to colonized lands, expect in cases when the colonist has no male descendants and plans to bring a bridegroom into the household. The properties which have been given to the colonists up till now have been small.

Anonymous said...

Part 9
Bearing in mind the extensive methods of farming, the fall of prices for agricultural products, as well as the large families of the colonists, 5-10 hectares of land is insufficient to ensure the conditions for the economic development of the colonists. It is better to settle a region with smaller number colonists with better conditions for development, rather than a large number of rural semi-proletarians. This, too, has been another major cause of our lack of success to date in the colonization of the south and the north.

Elements so suitable for colonization in such difficult conditions as we have are rare among other peoples. Those few successes we have achieved in the policy of colonization are the result of these colonizing qualities of race. Only our peasant, up against scrubland and ground that had never been worked shifted from one environment to another was capable of surviving in such different circumstances. What wouldn't he be able to do if the state were to give him the things it has the duty to provide.

On February 10, 1865 the Government of Prince Mihajlos promulgated the law on the Settlement of Foreigners in Serbia. Under this law, the Serbian Government granted poor colonists from neighboring regions 3 jutra of arable land and 3 jutra of non arable land, a house, a joke of oxen, a cart, two goats, or sheep, a sow, the necessary work tools and 120 grosh in cash. Apart from this, obviously maize for food to last them till the first harvest. One plough was provided for every two families. These fixed and movable assets were given to the colonizers for use without the right to sell them for a term of 15 years. At the end of this term, they became property. For the first 5 years the settlers were exempt from all kinds of state taxes, for 10 years they were exempt from the Universal compulsory military service in the regular army and exempt from service in the people's militia for 5 years. The response from all sides was such that within a few months all the places were filled and more territory was colonized than we have been able to do in several years since the war. If the state had created these favorable conditions for the colonists after 1918, our situation both in Vojvodina and in Southern Serbia would not be as it is. This is how we must act in the future, if we want success.

The method of colonization of Toplica and Kosvanica after 1878 when the Albanians were expelled from these regions, is also full of lessons. The method for our colonization of these regions was laid down in the law of January 3, 1880. On February 3 of the same year, the People's Council approved the law on the amendment of agrarian relations according to the principle the land to the peasants. Without hesitation, Serbia sought its first foreign loan in order to pay Turkey for the lands taken. It did not set up any ministry of agrarian reform or costly apparatus for the problem of colonization, but everything was done in a simple and practical manner. The police organs distributed the land to all those who wanted to till it. People came from Montenegro, Sjenica, Vranie, Kosovo, Pec etc. and 30 years after 1878. Toplica and Kosanica, once Albanian regions of ill-repute, gave Serbia the finest regiment in the wars of 1912-1918, the Iron Second Regiment. In those wars, Toplica and Kosanica paid and repaid, with blood of their sons, those tens of millions of dinars which Serbia had spent for their resettlement.

Only by following these examples and knowing what is required, sparing neither money nor blood, can our state create a new Toplica in Kosovo and Metohija. Hence, if we want these colonists to remain where they are, they must be assured of acquiring all the means of livelihood within few years. We must ruthlessly prohibit any speculations with the houses and properties of displaced Albanians. The state must reserve for itself the unlimited right to dispose of the fixed and movable assets of the people transferred and must settle its own colonists there immediately after the departure of the Albanians. This must be done, because it will rarely happen that a while village departs at once. The first to be settled in these villages should be the Montenegrins, as arrogant, irascible and merciless people, who will drive the remaining Albanians away with their behavior, and then colonists from other regions can be brought in.

Anonymous said...

Part 10
This paper deals with the problem of the colonization of the Southern Serbia Only. The problem of Vojvodina especially the Hungarian triangle in Backa, Senta-Kula-Backa Topola is not less important to us. To destroy this triangle in Vojvodina is tantamount to destroying the Albanian Block around the SAR Mountain. Following the division of the big estates, there remain tens of thousands of Hungarian farm-hands who today are a great burden on the Serbian and German middle peasant of Vojvodina. Some of these Hungarian and even German farm laborers and small proprietors must be sent to the south, because in Backs, on the border with Hungary, they represent a danger, the more so since the Serbs in Backa comprise only 25 per cent of the population. In Southern Serbia, by defending their properties against Albania, they will become good citizens, who will integrate themselves with our masses and, what is more important, being more progressive and of a higher cultural level than our peasants, they will provide an example of advanced methods of the cultivation of the land. We emphasize in particular that the Serbs of Vojvodina should not be sent to the south for colonization. In Vojvodina there is still land for colonization, therefore, they must be given land there. We stress also, that during the period of 1928-1929 there was a widespread movement among the Hungarians and Germans of Vojvodina to move to Southern Serbia, but not knowing the problems our unclear opinion opposed this movement and nipped it in the bud. Another such attempt in this direction should be impended and our public must be instructed to support the movement of the Hungarians and Germans from Vojvodina, and especially from Back to the South.
THE COLONIZATION APPARATUS

Of special importance for the solution of the question under discussion is the existence of an apparatus to direct the whole business. The poor work of the apparatus which has implemented our policy of colonization so far is the reason for the good part of our lack of success to date. To avoid this in the future, a reorganization must be carried out.

No other question demands such continuity in its implementation as colonization does. We have pointed out that one of the main reasons for the lack of success of our colonization in the north and in the south is the inconsistent work and changing policy with each change of government. If this is to be avoided in the future, the colonization should be entrusted to General Staff. Why? Simply for the reason of defense. Our army is interested in settling our own elements along the borders especially the moste delicate sectors. To this end, it will do its utmost to secure the borders with the firmest possible colonization. The General Staff, as the prime institution for the defense of our National Interests, can contribute a great deal to our whole policy of colonization. The General Staff will know how to protect the implementation of the policy of colonization from private interference by those who want to used it for their personal interests and from any external influence. Another important fact is that it would be easier for the General Staff to convince the responsible bodies of the importance if the issue and make them take effective decisions. The People's Council will have more faith in it and will grant the necessary credits to it more readily than to others.

The General Staff would guide all the work through a State Council for colonization. This council would be quiet independent, but directly under the control of the Chief of the General Staff, and would have all the organs of our colonization under its control. Representatives of several interested ministries, the national association, technical and scientific institutions, should be brought into this council.

The greatest mistake of our colonization policy lay in the fact that the untrained and incompetent bureaucracy had the main say in it, and it dealt with the problems a bit at a time, without going into them thoroughly. Let us only recall the colonization of our

Anonymous said...

Part 11



volunteers from Hungary at Ovce Polje, Kadrifikovo or the emigrants from Istra and Gorica who settled around Demir Kapija. This requeires the close linking of the state power, private initiative and scientific institutions with our colonization policy. Private initiatives can operate operate in many directions. The People's Defense, the Sokolasas, the Cetnik Association, etc. could undertake actions against the Albanians, in which it is appropriate for the state to be involved. The association of agronomists, doctors, engineers the cooperatives etc. can assist very well through their technical councils to solve many problems which arise during the process of our colonization. The cultural associations, too, such as Prosveta in Sarajevo, Matica Srbska in Novi Sad, the Sv. Sava association in Belgrade etc. also have their tasks in connection with this question.

Undoubtedly, our higher scientific institutions have begun their former prestige. The main reason for this is that the University and the Academy of Sciences are becoming more and more removed from real life and neglecting the chief task they have in a relatively backward country, such as ours - opening the ways for the application of the scientific achievements of the 20th century. Many billions would have been saved in this country, many mistakes would have been avoided in our state policy, including our colonization policy, had the problems been studies seriously and objectively in advance by our competent scientific workers before they were taken up for solution. Our policy of colonization, likewise, would have acquired a more serious approach, greater continuity and effective application had the opinions of experts and scientific workers been sought in advance. In the first place, the Royal Serbian Academy of Sciences and the University of Belgrade ought to take the initiative to organize thorough scientific study of the whole problem of colonization in our country. This would be possible for many reasons. At the University we have experts on every question connected with colonization in our country. The teachers and academicians at the University are independent workers, less subject to external political influence. They already have good experience in such work and their scientific activity is a guarantee of objectivity. Therefore they should take the initiative to set up the colonization institute, the task of which would be to engage in the study of colonization. The state for its part, should detach from several ministries all the institutions which have been engaged with this problem so far, and create a special institution, "The Colonization Inspection Office".

The Colonization Inspection Office would be headed by the Inspector General, appointed by decree on the proposal of the Minster of War, the Chief of General Staff, and the Prime Minister. All the work in the colonization institute and the Colonization Inspection Office would be carried out on orders from and under the supervision of the State Council, while the Inspector General would be answerable to the Chief of the General Staff.

The Colonization Institute would be divided into the following sections: 1) Organization, 2) Education and Culture, 3) Finance, 4) agriculture, 5) construction, 6) hygiene etc. In agreement with the scientific cultural-educational associations, the sections would study problems of colonization and prepare directives, thus supplying our colonization policy with a solid, scientifically worked out material from which to make decisions. At the head of this institute would be people from the State Council, made up of the representatives of the ministries mentioned, the University, the Academy of Sciences and those of private, national and educational-cultural organizations who would be elected or appointed to this council. In this case care must be taken not to bring people just for honor's sake, but men who love and are dedicated to this great work.

The heads and employees of the Institute should be selected through competition. The institute would supply the Colonization Inspection Office with scientifically worked out materials for the implementation of the colonization policy. In cases of differences of opinion between the Colonization Inspection Office and the institute over some fundamental question, the Chief of the General Staff would have the decisive way.

Anonymous said...

Part 12
The Colonization Inspection Office must have its executive organs in the territory, made up of people selected for their enthusiasm and readiness for this work, whether or not they are employed by the state. Therefore they should possible be selected through competition and be appointed upon proposal by the Chief of the General Staff, while as to its work, the Colonization Inspection Office and its organs must avoid the bureaucratic formalities as much as possible, while keeping in mind only one thing - the removal of the Albanians as quickly as possible and the settlement of our colonists.

The police apparatus will play a very important role in this matter. Therefore it is necessary to select the most energetic and honest officers and send them there. Their transfer should be done with the approval of the Chief of the General Staff, and for such a difficult job they should be paid from secret credits. Stern measures must be taken against any of them who commits the slightest infringement. A special commissar would execute the orders of the state colonization inspector must be appointed for the whole territory of the 18 districts mentioned. Prefects of districts must be given special wide powers for the work and the respective instructions. Our political parties should be told curtly that rivalry between parties in elections is categorically prohibited in those districts, and that any interference by the deputies in favor of Albanians is categorically forbidden.

The state Institute and the inspection Office for colonization will work out the technical details of organizing the removal of the Albanians and the establishment of our settlers. It would not be bad, perhaps, if another private organization were created besides these two official institutions, which would be based on the existing associations and have the task of assisting the implementation of our colonization policy through private initiative. It would be best if the League of our cultural-educational associations were to undertake this work. It would concern itself with coordinating the work of the private associations with the state policy for colonization and would assist liaison between them and the Colonization Institute.
FINANCIAL MEANS

Whenever our colonization policy has been criticized for its lack of success, its defenders have always excused themselves with the inadequate financial means the state has allocated for this work. We do not deny that it is sup op to the point, although it must be admitted that more has been spent in our country on the maintenance of this apparatus and its irrational work than on the colonization itself. Nevertheless, if we the state has not provided as it should, it must be understood that every state to ensure the holding of the insecure national regions, by colonizing these regions with its own national elements, must be included among the primary interests. All other commitments rank inferior to this task and this commitment. For this problem, money can and must be found. We have already mentioned the instance of Toplica and Kosanica and the benefits it had from this. When the small Serbian Kingdom did not hesitate to make great financial sacrifices, indeed did not hesitate, as a free and independent Kingdom, to seek its first loan for colonization, can it be said that our present-day Yugoslavia is unable to do such a thing? It can and must do it, and it is not true that it lacks the means to do it. Let us reckon approximately how much it would cost our state to transplant 200.000 Albanians and establish as great a number of our settlers.

The resettlement of 40.000 Albanian families - taking an average family as 5 members and an average of 15.000 dinars per each family would cost a total of 600 million dinars. The colonization expenditure for the settling of our 40.000 of our families may reach a total of 200 million dinars. In any case the whole thing will not cost more than 800 million dinars. This is why:

1. The transplanted Albanians will leave not only the land but also their houses and implements. Thus, not only will the overwhelming majority of our settlers

Anonymous said...

Part 13
be established in the houses of the Albanians, but with little assistance with live stock and food, they will recover themselves economically and become independent. For this reason we emphasize here, too, that private speculations with the possessions left by the Albanians must not be permitted in any way, but the state must take them and give them to the settlers. 2. During the settling up of the new colonies, military forces should be employed, where required, as was the case with construction of Sremska-Raca and the reconstruction of the villages destroyed in 1931 by the earthquake in the south. To this end, the army should be given the right and possibility a kind of obligatory labor service for public projects, just as Stambolisky in Bulgaria created the Trundova Pronist and Hitler created the Arbeitsdienst, in Germany by calling up reservists or extending the term of the military service. It would be especially good that our trained youth, after their graduation from the University are charged with this task. In this case, by taking part in constructive work in general interest, many of them would become more conscious and look at things more realistically. This can be easily applied by giving priority in entering state employment to those youth who spend a definite period in work for our colonization policy. This would also reduce the unemployment among our young intelligentsia, which is becoming an increasingly difficult social problem in our country.

3. In the agreement with the specialized organizations and associations, the least costly ways must be sought for clearing land of scrub, irrigation, draining swamps, etc. well as for building houses. Private entrepreneurs should be informed that during their work to secure the necessary materials, the state helps them with reduced customs and railway tariffs, credits and other means, so that for such an important work the state has the right to demand from them supplies of materials at the lowest possible prices. The question of securing the materials should be solved directly through cartels and then, in agreement with them, the state will define both the quantity, quality and the price of the materials without fictitious deals. The state enterprises, the railways and especially forest enterprises such as Sipad etc. should be placed totally at the disposal of the State Council for Colonization. 4. During the colonization the state may grant the settlers property on credit or for cash. Many of them will buy land in new regions, selling their properties in their birthplaces. From this the state will regain a good part of the money it has laid out. However, we stress that the land must be sold only who provide proof that they will settle it permanently and work it. The land given on credit must not be very dear. The rate of interest must be minimal and the repayment should be deferred for several years to give settler time to establish himself i.e. until he has gained strength from the economic aspect.

Taking this as a basis, the state can find the means from two sources. The State must undertake all the expenditures for the administration of this work and cover it from its normal income. This it can do by pruning unnecessary expenditure or expenditure from other spheres which are not so immediately urgent. The other possible financial source would be loans, which would be provided by the state banks, alone or jointly with our private capital through a compulsory internal loan. This would be based on securities issued by the state as well as on the contributions of the settlers, when they become independent.

It might not be a bad idea if financing and purchase of lands were done by the agricultural banks in collaboration with the cooperativist unions, under the direct supervision and on the basis of the directives of the State Council for Colonization. However, it is still early to give any definite opinion on this problem, because the conditions on which Turkey will accept the population displaced from our territories are not known.

Anonymous said...

Part 14
Altogether, a sum of few hundred million dinars is a small expenditure for the state, in comparison with the real benefits it will gain from such a move. By securing our most sensitive point in the south through the settlement of our national elements we have several divisions in case of war. By settling these tens of thousands of families from our passive regions, especially Montenegro, as colonists, the intolerable economic crisis in those regions will be eased, and on the other hand, as a result of the great amount of work that will be opened during the colonization, it will be possible to find employment 10.000 workers, thus giving an impulse to our sluggish economy.

For such an important national, military, strategic and economic task, it is the duty of the state to sacrifice a few hundred million dinars. At a time when it can spend one billion dinars for the construction of the international highway from Subotica to Caribrod, and possible benefit from which we shall enjoy only in the distant future, it can and must find a few hundred million dinars, which will put us back in possession in the cradle of our state.

CONCLUSION

In the view of all that has been said above, it is no accident that in our examination of the question of colonization in the south, we proceed from the view that the only effective method for solving this problem is the mass resettlement of the Albanians. Just as in other countries, gradual colonization has had no success in our country. When the state wants to intervene in favor of its own element, in struggle for the land, it can be successful only if it acts brutally. Otherwise, the native with his roots in his birthplace and acclimatized there, is always stronger than the colonist. In our case, this must be kept especially well in mind, because we have to do it with a rugged, resistant and prolific race, which the late Cvijic describes as the most expansive in the Balkans. From 1870 to 1914 Germany spent billions of marks for the gradual colonization of its eastern regions by purchasing land from the poles, but the fecundity of the Polish mothers defeated German organizations and money. This Poland regained its Pozan in 1918. Our statistics of the 1921-31 period, which we have already mentioned, show that the fecundity of the Albanian women defeated our colonization policy too. From this we must draw a conclusion, and do so quickly while there is still time to correct matters.

All Europe is in a state of turmoil. We do not know what each day and night may bring. Albanian nationalism is mounting in our territories too. To leave the situation as it is would mean, in case of any world conflict our social revolution, both of which are possible in the near future, to jeopardize all our territories in the south. The purpose of this paper is to aver such a thing.


By
Vaso Cubrilovic, Yugoslav Minister.

Dardania 2006 said...

Dude,

This is all very nice of you and very informative but please its SPAMlike. Please setup a blog with a link to this information because its just riddiclous to have to scroll through this and wait for the blog to load.

And it would remain more permanent and more accessible :)