Monday, January 09, 2006

Belgrade calls for ties between Serb municipalities in Kosovo

BELGRADE, Jan 9 (AFP) -

Belgrade believes Serb-populated areas in Kosovo should be allowed to band togther to form institutions to guarantee their rights, according to a news agency report Monday.

Serb-populated municipalities should be established in the areas of Kosovo where the community makes up a majority of the inhabitants, the Beta agency said, quoting the position, or platform, adopted at a meeting of the Serbian negotiating team last week.

Kosovo is overwhelmingly inhabited by ethnic Albanians, who make up 90 percent of the population of two million. About 80,000 Serbs live in the province, 30,000 of them in enclaves in the central part of Kosovo, protected by the NATO-led peace keeping force.

The province, legally still a part of Serbia, has been administered by the United Nations since a NATO bombing campaign ousted Belgrade-controlled forces in 1999 to end a Serbian crackdown against separatist Albanian rebels.

Negotiating teams representing Belgrade and Pristina are to begin direct talks on Kosovo in late January, under the supervision of the UN special envoy for Kosovo, former Finnish President Martti Ahtisaari.

Municipalities with Serb majorities "would not make up a compact territory ... but would represent an institutional framework for normal life and the safe survival of the Serb community in the province," the Serbian team's negotiating position said.

They should be able to form joint committees and have "guaranteed direct institutional relations with Belgrade," the platform said.

"Through decentralisation, living conditions for Serbs in Kosovo can be normalised. Full protection of their rights demands institutional guarantees... above all, in the parliament of Kosovo," the platform said.

Formation of Serb municipalities should provide constitutional guarantees and legal protection for the Serb community be able to survive in the province, it added.

"The legal and constitutional position of the Serb community in Kosovo must be determined in a way that the Albanian majority will have no legal basis to treat Serbs as a minority that can be forced to accept solutions contrary to its vital interests," the platform said.

Ethnic tensions remain high as Albanians want to break away from Belgrade which considers the province as a cradle of Serbian culture and history.

"Such guarantees could easily be introduced through a process of decentralisation which should enable local municipalities to get a series of concrete competences and authorities" such as full cultural, financial and economic autonomy as well as local police and legal control, it said.

According to Belgrade, more than 200,000 Kosovo Serbs have fled the province fearing reprisals from ethnic Albanian extremists since the UN took control in June 1999.

31 comments:

arianit said...

The solution is not ghetoisation and enclaves but integration and participation along with all other Kosovars. Serbs apparently want veto right for anything essential in parliament but with their 60,000 where they stand right now they won't be allowed to determine the fate of all other Kosovars. Even if they were to get all the political rights they request, if they are not integrated with the rest of the country they will die out for pure economic reasons.
Serbs must understand that apologizing to their neighbhors and admiting the reality of an independent Kosova (especially since pretty much things are settled now) will pay more dividends than withdrawing themselves to enclaves and die out slowly with all the young people leaving the enclaves for a better life in Serbia.
I'm sure Albanian will forgive them. After all, Turks ruled for five centuries here and yet relations are friendly today.

illyrianboy said...

"The legal and constitutional position of the Serb community in Kosovo must be determined in a way that the Albanian majority will have no legal basis to treat Serbs as a minority that can be forced to accept solutions contrary to its vital interests," the platform said.

What kind of stupid BS is that?! Serbs are already overrepresented in the parliament, but they don't want to participate. Belgrade shouldnt be sending all sorts of stupid confusing messages to Kosovo Serbs. Kosovo Serbs are Kosovar citizens and they should have the same rights as any citizen of Kosovo.Everyone in Kosovo recognizes that and the government and constitution garantuee that. So Belgrade should stop BSing.

Kristian said...

Its all mombo jumbo talk so they can win elections in the future at the Kosovo/a serbs expense. The ppl should be integrated instead of seperated. And the serbs and albanians can determine their own vital interests. No one is denying them any rights they have full rights as any other albanian.

ivan said...

To arianti,
"Serbs apparently want veto right for anything essential in parliament but with their 60,000 where they stand right now they won't be allowed to determine the fate of all other Kosovars."

you dont intend to allow the return of the other 200K Serbs to their homes?

To Kristian,

"No one is denying them any rights they have full rights as any other albanian."

I really respect your opinion the most out of all the "opponent"posters. But lets face it kristian, Serbs dont have the basic rights in Kosovo & Metohija. They are not allowed to move freely through out the country, they need protection from UNMIK, they dont have jobs, education is limited, and they live in a constant fear. On paper things can look great, like laws and regulations, but if this is not practiced, those are just dead letters.

Dardania 2006 said...

Those 200k Serbs will return.

"I really respect your opinion the most out of all the "opponent"posters. But lets face it kristian, Serbs dont have the basic rights in Kosovo & Metohija. They are not allowed to move freely through out the country, they need protection from UNMIK, they dont have jobs, education is limited, and they live in a constant fear. On paper things can look great, like laws and regulations, but if this is not practiced, those are just dead letters."

What do you expect when they boycot our government? It's like saying "Albanians cannot rule Kosova, Albanians have no right to do so", especialy since most of the Serbs see Albanians are "multiplying insects".

When you embrace your homeland (Kosova/Dardania) then you can move freely. And don't think that the isolation is being caused by the Albanians, it's caused by Belgrades policy.

ivan said...

"What do you expect when they boycot our government? It's like saying "Albanians cannot rule Kosova, Albanians have no right to do so", especialy since most of the Serbs see Albanians are "multiplying insects". "

So in this sense you agree what Milosevic did to you. You boycoted everything that had to do with Serbia, and Milosevic played hard on you. From your above comment, I see that if Serbs decided to do the same you did in Yugoslavia, you will behave exactly the same as Milosevic.

"When you embrace your homeland (Kosova/Dardania) then you can move freely. And don't think that the isolation is being caused by the Albanians, it's caused by Belgrades policy."

Did the Albanians in Kosovo ever consider Serbia as their home land? I dont think so. The answer to your question lies within your comment. Serbs will never embrace Kosovo as an independent part of Serbia. Now what will you do about it. Will you kill the remaining 100K Serbs, and not allow the 200K Serbs as refugees to come back?

Kristian said...

The last 2 arguments are pointless bc once everyone joins the EU there will be no borders in a since. Policies will be made for the greater good of all ppl not a specific ethnic group.

Kristian said...

Ivan that is how albanians lived since the creation of FROY since its onset. You are right that they are fearful but do you think some of that fear comes from serbia and stereotyping of albanians? Its like injection of fear.

Kristian said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Kristian said...

Ivan and again education and breaking stereotypes is the key. Check this article and give me your honest opinion if you truly think albanians are that way? http://globalpolitician.com/articledes.asp?ID=1534&cid=3&sid=8
Is that instilling fear or what? And its belgrades position as well. to an extent.

ivan said...

"The last 2 arguments are pointless bc once everyone joins the EU there will be no borders in a since. Policies will be made for the greater good of all ppl not a specific ethnic group."

Kristian this is a dream. Serbia and the new state ( I dont know how you will call it), will enter the EU in at least 10 years time. My concern is what will happen in the meantime.

"Ivan that is how albanians lived since the creation of FROY since its onset. You are right that they are fearful but do you think some of that fear comes from serbia and stereotyping of albanians? Its like injection of fear. "

As we both agreed, nothing is black and white. Serbia is not stereotyping Albanians to the extent Albanians are stereotyping Serbs. As my argument to this point I would like to point out that there are albanians living all over Serbia and they do live a very normal life. I mentioned several times the city of Vrsac. Albaninans also hold shops in the centre of Belgrade, and they run their business succesfully. Nobody throws rocks in Belgrade or anywhere in Serbia when a car drives with Preshevo plates. But what would happen if a car came to Prishtina with BG plates? Be honest please.

"Ivan and again education and breaking stereotypes is the key. Check this article and give me your honest opinion if you truly think albanians are that way? http://globalpolitician.com/articledes.asp?ID=1534&cid=3&sid=8
Is that instilling fear or what? And its belgrades position as well. to an extent. "

I will read the article, and I will give you my opinion. You are completely right, stereotypes help politicians hold on to their power. hitler used it, Stalin used, Bush uses it, Milosevic used.
We as individuals need to be strong to resist to it.

At the beginning when i joined this blog, i came with that attitude, but all i got was attacks in return. You are the first Albanian who returned this attitude.

At the end we are all people, no matter what religion, belief, ethinic group, etc. We all bleed, we all feel... I myself got a lot of help from an albanian, and we both have a good friendship. One thing we had in common was to respect each other and each others arguments.

Dardania 2006 said...

"So in this sense you agree what Milosevic did to you. You boycoted everything that had to do with Serbia, and Milosevic played hard on you. From your above comment, I see that if Serbs decided to do the same you did in Yugoslavia, you will behave exactly the same as Milosevic."

We will never become like Milosevic, I can assure you that as much as many of your compatriots would wish we were marching our paramilitaries against Serbian babies.

"Did the Albanians in Kosovo ever consider Serbia as their home land? I dont think so. The answer to your question lies within your comment. Serbs will never embrace Kosovo as an independent part of Serbia. Now what will you do about it. Will you kill the remaining 100K Serbs, and not allow the 200K Serbs as refugees to come back?"

Noone will kill any Serbs. Crime will happen, this unfortunately I cannot or anyone stop. And yes, Serbia is not my homeland, and Kosovar Serbs have a homeland: Kosova or Kosmet or Dardania. It certainly is not Serbia.

"At the beginning when i joined this blog, i came with that attitude, but all i got was attacks in return. You are the first Albanian who returned this attitude."

You came with the non-biased attitude or with a biased one? I didn't get your post.

Anonymous said...

Will Albanians become like Miloshevic since Serbs are not willing to live under Kosovar institutions? Good question, and a nice try Ivan...but you left some things out. For example... did Albanians have a similar institutional representation in the Serbian government as Serbs do in Kosova? I dont think so. Did Albanians enjoy the luxury of legally studying in their own schools and their own language? I dont think so. Are Serbs being called for questioning and being killed by Kosovar police? I dont think so. Did ever miloshevic go to an ALbanian family and see how they're doing and tell them that the government will build a school for your kids? I dont remember that. Unless you are a complete imbesil and ignorant do not make such comparisons. Even our most extreme people (such as Fatmir Limaj) in the time when they could kill as many serbs as they wanted were found innocent - while Miloshevic and half of Serbia are in jails. My friend... Serbs are uncomparable to anyone - they are the most uncivilized and animal-like people.

Cvijus011 said...

seeing what was here posted i just see albanian megalomanic aspirations, or in common words, albanian imperialism.

what you did to serbia and yugoslavia was ok, but if the serbs do that to kosovo-metohija, than it is a problem?

to the anonymous,

the albanians had their institutional representation in yugoslavia (it seems you all have short memories) through the autonomic status. every federal decision which required the concensous of each member states, serbia was not permitted to adopt a decision without first consulting the leadership of the autonomous kosovo-metohija.
milosevic dindn't go to an albanian family, but he didn't go to an serbian either.
no tell me, did hashim tachi or ramush haradinai ever admitted or apologized for the attrocities they did to serbian civilians? have they ever offered their help to endangered serbian families? have they ever offered their help to the serbian families who lost their dears since 1999? we apologized through many means to the albanians (which apparently you don't want to listen), but the albanians noit only don not apologize (in every war nobody is innocent) but they keep on with the war against us.

dardania,

you keep saying that the albanians are breeding insects. if you keep saying that, i will really start to believe it.

merry christmas to you all and happy new year

Dardania 2006 said...

"you keep saying that the albanians are breeding insects. if you keep saying that, i will really start to believe it.

You already do dear Cvijus, othervise you would not care about other peoples countries and would not endulge in Serbian racial superiority.

The Kosovars had autonomy between 1974 and 1989. Before that there was a massive anti-Albanian campaign, moving houndreds of thousands to Turkey and other countries. After 1989 there was attempted genocide.

Ramush Haradinaj (who will most probably be found guilty for some minor crimes) and Fatmir Limaj (who was found NOT guilty) have never called for or attempted genocide. Thus, the only appology do be made in the area is:

Serbia to Bosnia (this one already done), Croatia (pending) and Kosova/Dardania (pending).

Then there is compensation for material and lives lost:

Serbia due to pay: Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova.

Then, there is compensation for the Yugoslav Federal funds Serbia withheld to economic development in Kosova from 1948 till 1989.

We will be kind enough and assume that Serbia did not have to give the Kosovars their share of funds after 1989 since we had declared independence and thus we were another state.

Hey Merry Christmas to Serbs and orthodox Albanians and Happy Bajram to muslim Albanians, Bosniacs and Turks.

Would give a happy xmas to Albanian catholics but that is long past...bye

Cvijus011 said...

dardania,

you make essential flaws and contradict some things in you last post:

1. kosovo-metohija received autonomy in 1945 with the end of the war

2. if we were withhelding the funds, how come there are hospitals, schools, roads and industries (such as trepca) in kosovo-metohija. bare in mind that in that period private investments are forbidden.

3. are also the albanians willing to compensate alos the serbian families who suffered under the terrors of the uck?

4. for haradinai you call a minor crime 300 dead serbs in just one village. than racak was just a microscopic crime.

5."You already do dear Cvijus, othervise you would not care about other peoples countries and would not endulge in Serbian racial superiority."

kosovo-metohija is still officially a part of serbia (as it was since 1912) so talking care of businesses in our own country appears normal. according to your logics, germany has no right to interfere in things such as public security and order in bavaria.

6. even though some minor political factors declared independence, apparantly nobody in the whole wide world hasn't aknowledged that. again according to your logics than kurdistan is also independent, the basque lands also.

Anonymous said...

1. kosovo-metohija received autonomy in 1945 with the end of the war


And what every Serb acts like he's forgeeting is the fact that Kosova joined the Federation one year before Serbia. So all the bs about it belonging to the succesor state of Jugoslavia is pure idiocy. Judging by this Serbia should belong to a couple of republics that joined the Federation long before Serbia.

Dardania 2006 said...

Cvijus,

Good to see you pay attention to detail:

"you make essential flaws and contradict some things in you last post:

1. kosovo-metohija received autonomy in 1945 with the end of the war"


I dont see how this is a flaw or contradiction. I missed it for about 3 years. This is a mistake, not flaw or contradiction.

"2. if we were withhelding the funds, how come there are hospitals, schools, roads and industries (such as trepca) in kosovo-metohija. bare in mind that in that period private investments are forbidden."

I never said ALL fund were withheld, suffice to say that if that was the case Croatia and Slovenia would have left the Federation way earlier.

"3. are also the albanians willing to compensate alos the serbian families who suffered under the terrors of the uck?"

Yes, that would total about 200,000 Euro? Lets triple that, and lets double Serbias soon to come compensation. Just a correction: UCK or KLA did not committ terrorist actions, it was Serbia.

"4. for haradinai you call a minor crime 300 dead serbs in just one village. than racak was just a microscopic crime."

Just like with Fatmir Limaj, accusations that come from Belgrade or have been compiled during Emperor Milosevic reign cannot be taken seriously. On the other hand, the street close to where you are sitting now could have Albanian bodies under it...think different! Oh thats from Apple.

"kosovo-metohija is still officially a part of serbia (as it was since 1912) so talking care of businesses in our own country appears normal. according to your logics, germany has no right to interfere in things such as public security and order in bavaria."

Do you always give comparisons that cannot be compared? Bavaria? That is Germany, and last time I checked Germany did not attack Bavaria and attempted Genocide on the Bavarians, that Serbs really love. That is like saying, Bejing wants to declare independence from China. Kosova is not Bavaria to Serbia. Now that you mention since 1912 Kosova has been part of Serbia, I LIKE THAT...and who fought to keep it away from Serbia? Aye, our independence war went bad 90 years ago...not this time.

So if Serbia annexed it since 1912, that would explain why Serbia "took" it...i.e. it does not belong to Serbia :) in the end we agree...jolly goody ye ye

But rest assured that if, Quebuec or British Columbia voted for independence, they would get it...

Now how about this idea: Serbia decides to become a civilised state just like Canada? If you like that idea then great...for just imagine, Serbia would be known for its mapple sirup and not for its war criminals.

"6. even though some minor political factors declared independence, apparantly nobody in the whole wide world hasn't aknowledged that. again according to your logics than kurdistan is also independent, the basque lands also."

True, noone acknowledged it. Yet even though you claim the Serbian nation is free of guilt, blood and crimes, noone has acknowledged that either. The difference, we can sit here and fight for our liberty, you cannot clean up your face and if your soldiers try to cross the border and take Kosova/Dardania, you will have "How to make a Serb War Criminal: Part II" or if Tolkien was alive "The Return of the Serb War Criminal".

And yes, if Basques want independence they deserve it, it is their land, their choice. Or are you going to tell me Kurdish people dont deserve it? Are you going to claim they are not human enough?

Anonymous said...

"the albanians had their institutional representation in yugoslavia (it seems you all have short memories) through the autonomic status."
Thats right my dear friend YUGOSLAVIA. But as far as I remember one of you was comparing Albanians with Milosevic... and when he was in power KosovA was forcefully made part of Serbia. Thus first half of your posting is nonsense.
"milosevic dindn't go to an albanian family, but he didn't go to an serbian either."
Does this prove to you that Serbs cannot rule? What are leaders suppose to do? In my opinion they should try and provide better means for life to everyone (like Kosumi is). If Serbs cannot do that Albanians can. And out of our generosity we can send some people to rule Serbia as well, if you need.
"no tell me, did hashim tachi or ramush haradinai ever admitted or apologized for the attrocities they did to serbian civilians? have they ever offered their help to endangered serbian families? have they ever offered their help to the serbian families who lost their dears since 1999?"
This is a good example of your misinformation - dont visit sites like Serbianna and other serb propaganda - they treat you as a dumb ass. Now, Ramush Haradinaj is more progressive than any Serb leader. He tried more than anyone to bring Serbs in the governement, and provide them rights that every citizen of Kosova has. Dont rush into conclusions - he is in Hague but is not guilty yet. I understand where you are coming from. All Albanians that were arrested by the Serb authorities were immediately guilty and spent years in jail without trial - but the whole world is not that undemocratic. Welcome to the 21st century.
Hashim Thaqi on the other hand has not even been charged with anything - so he doesnt have anything to apologize for.. does he? It is not his fault that you guys dream things up and have nightmares.
And one last thing about Haradinaj in comparison with Serbs. When he was charged he resigned and left volunteerly - he didnt have to hide anything. While half of Serbia lives underground - because you do things that you dont believe on. Thats why I said you are very close to animals.
Take care my dear friend and I hope someday you will wake up and laugh at your own comments.
Fatos (anonymous)

Cvijus011 said...

you all people are making no sence, when you say that i made up things, in the same sence i can say that you all made up things about serbian attrocities.

to dardania,

1. missing between 1945 and 1974 (look at your previous posts) is not just a couple of years difference.

2. the autonomous region of kosovo-metohija had its own budgetary policy, it collected the taxes on its own and allocated the resources as it thought it was best. now, ask azem vlasi were did the money go. federal funds were given directly to kosovo-metohija, not through serbia. so it is wrong to say that serbia was withhelding money for kosovo-metohija when serbia couldn't even control the flaw of money.

3. multiple 200.000 euros with the 220.000 refugees and about 3.000 families who lost the dears. if the uck wasn't terrorizing serbs, what were trhey doing? giving them flowers?

4. in that sense, accuzations that come against serbs are manufactured by emperor rugova, taqi, etc. in that sense the attrocities that serbs have done are just a fiction made up by albanian vilains. perhaps under my street lay roman graves from 300 ad. serbs have killed them aswell?

5. there are strong political factors who call for the independence of bavaria, so this could be also compared with the issue of kosovo-metohija. try to put that in your mind once and for all that so far kosovo-metohija is officially an integral part of serbia, whether you like it or not. in every history book it stands that those who were defending this region in 1912 were ottoman soldiers, there has been no report of albanian activity because there were no albanians there. the london treaty of 1912-13 predicted the allocation of lands according to the ethnic principle. than why did kosovo-metohija didn't go to the already independent albanian state? the same case with the versailles treaty.

6. there's another great tolkien title "the return of the black and red lord of the darkness"
supporting the basque cause, do you characterize eta as uck?

to fatos,

in yugoslavia, kosovo-metohija was not an autonomous region within yugoslavia as the federation as a whole but an autonomous region of serbia, serbia as a federal unit.
i don't see any difference between albanian political leaders and milosevic. same words, promises, rhetorics and lifestyles, different ethnicities.

"In my opinion they should try and provide better means for life to everyone (like Kosumi is). If Serbs cannot do that Albanians can."
than check OSCE, UN, EU and Council of Europe reports to see how good life standards are albanians providing to everyone, especially the romas and serbs. the 220.000 serbian refugees are also a proof of how nice the albanians were to them.

"And out of our generosity we can send some people to rule Serbia as well, if you need."

what is that supposed to mean? albanian megalomanic and imperialistic ambitions. in that spirit, i hope you all albanians know how to swim.
how can you compare haradinaj (swiss bodyguard with no education) and taqi (complete terrorist) with anyone. even milosevic whom i hate the most is better than they. haradinaj and taqi have just luck for having the americans (such as allbright and holbruck) to advise them.
i advise you to visit some other sites aside from shqiptarianna to see what you nation is doing to mine. we are already in the 21st century with a brand new government (we kicked out milosevic) negotiating with the EU, while you are still in the 19th the era of nationalism and big words such as nation and freedom.
have a nice day, hoping that you will get enlightened and admit what mistakes have your own countrymen done to you. germans have learned from their mistakes, we aswell, but just the albanians are still in the darkness

Dardania 2006 said...

"1. missing between 1945 and 1974 (look at your previous posts) is not just a couple of years difference."

? Kosovars got autonomy in 1974. Not in 1945. So this supports what I am about to tell you bellow:

"2. the autonomous region of kosovo-metohija had its own budgetary policy, it collected the taxes on its own and allocated the resources as it thought it was best. now, ask azem vlasi were did the money go. federal funds were given directly to kosovo-metohija, not through serbia. so it is wrong to say that serbia was withhelding money for kosovo-metohija when serbia couldn't even control the flaw of money."

Given that from 1945 - 1974 money came if Serbia felt like it, and between 1989 - 1999 the same...yes Serbia is responsible for underdevelopment of Dardania/Kosova.

"3. multiple 200.000 euros with the 220.000 refugees and about 3.000 families who lost the dears. if the uck wasn't terrorizing serbs, what were trhey doing? giving them flowers?"

Now we are talking. Ok, 220,000 Refugees each gets 200,000 EUROs, I am happy with that. Now, 10,000 murdered and missing people, for each Serbia pays 100,000 EUROs (I am being kind to you). Then, 1,000,000 IDP (internally displaced people) each get 50,000 EUROs, and the 900,000 refugees (ones that did cross the border) get 20,000 EUROS.

Now, do the math...and tell me who has been giving flowers to who?

"4. in that sense, accuzations that come against serbs are manufactured by emperor rugova, taqi, etc. in that sense the attrocities that serbs have done are just a fiction made up by albanian vilains. perhaps under my street lay roman graves from 300 ad. serbs have killed them aswell?"

Hmm dont do that, Italy will be angry. After all Rome is Italian not Serbian. And no, there are no bodies under the streets in Kosova cause guess what...NO STREETS WERE PAVED. Infact, the last time I remember anyone working on the streets, building something, was 1989. Of course, after 1999 things changed.

"5. there are strong political factors who call for the independence of bavaria, so this could be also compared with the issue of kosovo-metohija."

Well if Bavaria wants to separate, then be it so. I can assure you that Germany would not slaughter and attempt genocide on those people. They are civilized, unlike some folks I know...(looks north)

"try to put that in your mind once and for all that so far kosovo-metohija is officially an integral part of serbia, whether you like it or not. "

The problem here is: Kosova is my home. Serbia is yours. You never visited Kosova. You cannot tell me what my own home is.

"in every history book it stands that those who were defending this region in 1912 were ottoman soldiers, there has been no report of albanian activity because there were no albanians there."

So how did we get here? Boeing 747, C-13 or Chinook Choppers? You win a prize if you guess right.

"the london treaty of 1912-13 predicted the allocation of lands according to the ethnic principle."

And given that Turks were ingenious in separating everyone by religion...all the Albanians were counted as Turks or Serbs (if they were muslim or orthodox respectively).

"than why did kosovo-metohija didn't go to the already independent albanian state? the same case with the versailles treaty."

Because if the Serbs were capable of mounting an offensive over the mountains then there would have been no Albania. Albania exists thanks to President Willson. Just cause you won a battle in 1912 and took Kosova doesn't mean its yours...

"6. there's another great tolkien title "the return of the black and red lord of the darkness"
supporting the basque cause, do you characterize eta as uck?"


I love the title, I notice there is no War Criminal in it...thank you. And yes I do support the Basque cause and I do NOT support ETA cause they are terrorists.

Want me to define terrorist to you? Simple, attacking civilians under a flagship or cause. I.E. Serb forces are terrorists.

Dardania 2006 said...

I just had to reply to you Cvijus, I like you very much...

"in yugoslavia, kosovo-metohija was not an autonomous region within yugoslavia as the federation as a whole but an autonomous region of serbia, serbia as a federal unit."

Not so constitutionaly. But that is for the lawyers.

"i don't see any difference between albanian political leaders and milosevic. same words, promises, rhetorics and lifestyles, different ethnicities."

This is funny. There is a big difference, Milosevic and a whole circus of "politicians" and "leaders" from Serbia are on trial for war crimes.

"than check OSCE, UN, EU and Council of Europe reports to see how good life standards are albanians providing to everyone, especially the romas and serbs."

Everyone? Croats, Bosniacs, Turks, Ashkali are all ok. They have same standards of living as Albanians, although these are not great standards, they are ok. Kosovar Serbs dont want to take part in the Kosovar economy. They still use the Yugoslav Dinar, who on earth wants to use that currency? Even Montenegro, part of the Union, doesn't use it.

"the 220.000 serbian refugees are also a proof of how nice the albanians were to them."

I was also a refugee...kicked out by Serbs (my own neighbours). So tell me, 900,000 refugees, 1,000,000 IDPs, and 10,000 murdered/missing people...Serbs were realy nice to us.

"what is that supposed to mean? albanian megalomanic and imperialistic ambitions. in that spirit, i hope you all albanians know how to swim.
how can you compare haradinaj (swiss bodyguard with no education) and taqi (complete terrorist) with anyone."


It is an offer of help. Thaci may not have a PhD in Sustainable Development but he is not the one sitting for war crimes in Hague.

"even milosevic whom i hate the most is better than they."

For someone you hate you sound a lot like him.

"haradinaj and taqi have just luck for having the americans (such as allbright and holbruck) to advise them."

Why would these educated, long expereinced, people then support these "uneducated" Kosovar leaders? Could it be with the fact that they did not have genocide in mind?

"i advise you to visit some other sites aside from shqiptarianna to see what you nation is doing to mine."

A site like that does not exist, Serbianna on the other hand does. Infact the only Albanian english news site is subscription only (KosovaLive). The only sites that talk like you are Serb..why is that? Oh I know your answer: Evil Capitalist West and Albanians united against the Righteous Serbs.

"we are already in the 21st century with a brand new government (we kicked out milosevic) negotiating with the EU, while you are still in the 19th the era of nationalism and big words such as nation and freedom."

In that respect we have been in the 21st century for about 400 years now. We use things like freedom and nation cause those are important things, and they don't put you in the 19th century.

Now racism puts you in the 19th century, something you seem to be excellent at.

Btw, talking about the EU. Kosovar institutions are being built on EU standards...we sort of beat you to it.

"have a nice day, hoping that you will get enlightened and admit what mistakes have your own countrymen done to you. germans have learned from their mistakes, we aswell, but just the albanians are still in the darkness"

And has Serbia learned from anything?

Cvijus011 said...

Dardania,

"Kosovars got autonomy in 1974. Not in 1945. So this supports what I am about to tell you bellow"

Actually, from 1945 it was an autonomous region and since 1968 a province. No structural changes were made in 1968, just the naming of it was changed. You may check in wikipedia about that.

"Now we are talking. Ok, 220,000 Refugees each gets 200,000 EUROs, I am happy with that. Now, 10,000 murdered and missing people, for each Serbia pays 100,000 EUROs (I am being kind to you). Then, 1,000,000 IDP (internally displaced people) each get 50,000 EUROs, and the 900,000 refugees (ones that did cross the border) get 20,000 EUROS."

Are you sure that the Kosovo-Metohian finances can afford giving that much money to Serbs? If not, ask you drug lords to give you some.

"Well if Bavaria wants to separate, then be it so. I can assure you that Germany would not slaughter and attempt genocide on those people. They are civilized, unlike some folks I know...(looks north)"

I see, when germany brings the money in, you lick asses, otherwise you would tell them the same story, but in this case for the Jews.

"Because if the Serbs were capable of mounting an offensive over the mountains then there would have been no Albania. Albania exists thanks to President Willson. Just cause you won a battle in 1912 and took Kosova doesn't mean its yours..."

before engaging in a historical discussion with me, refresh you knowledge. It wasn't Wilson who granted Albania independence, but the Austro-Hungarians. The London Treaty approved the independence and made a re-allocation of lands of which somehow Albanian didn't get Kosovo-Metohija. Why's that?
You talk of incapability of Serbs taking Albania. Well, we did that, twice, in 1912 and 1915.

"So how did we get here? Boeing 747, C-13 or Chinook Choppers? You win a prize if you guess right."

Through the mountains after 1945 with the blessings of Tito and the KPJ.

"And yes I do support the Basque cause and I do NOT support ETA cause they are terrorists."

That's very optimistic if you imagine your self in the EU. What will the Spanish say about that.
ETA are terrorists and UCK not, even though they fought by the same formula. Double standards.

"Want me to define terrorist to you? Simple, attacking civilians under a flagship or cause. I.E. Serb forces are terrorists."

Well that's the same definition for UCK. Serbian civillians died because of them. UCK had also a cause for which they would killing innocent people, so this makes Serbian paramilitary forces and UCK the same.

One more thing:

Did you know that Dardania was the Byzantine administrative name for the region of southern Caucasus (contemporary southern Georgia"?

ivan said...

"While half of Serbia lives underground - because you do things that you dont believe on. Thats why I said you are very close to animals."

Now tell me who is racist here. How do you expect more than 200K Serbs to come back to their homes, when you albanians see them as close as animals. So I guess to this satatement, 100K will be killed (since your copatriot sees half of Serbs as animals), and the others will be left under consideration if they are animals or not.

So much about the word of human rights, or 21st century.

To Dardania,

it is obvious that cvijus beats you by far when it comes to historical facts. Choose another field of arguments.

Anonymous said...

"milosevic dindn't go to an albanian family, but he didn't go to an serbian either."
then u said:
"i don't see any difference between albanian political leaders and milosevic. same words, promises, rhetorics and lifestyles, different ethnicities." IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE CONTRADICTION :).

"than check OSCE, UN, EU and Council of Europe reports to see how good life standards are albanians providing to everyone, especially the romas and serbs. the 220.000 serbian refugees are also a proof of how nice the albanians were to them." Dont you think we are treating them much better than Serbs treated Albanians. In addition, these guys (SErbs) were the ones who killed thousands of Albanians, while we were striving to use our own language in schools - huge difference.

"what is that supposed to mean? albanian megalomanic and imperialistic ambitions. in that spirit, i hope you all albanians know how to swim." It's funny how mad I am getting you:). Yes my friend, we know how to swim better than you do because are nation happens to have access to sea while yours is landlocked, and thats how it will stay :).

"how can you compare haradinaj (swiss bodyguard with no education) and taqi (complete terrorist) with anyone. even milosevic whom i hate the most is better than they. haradinaj and taqi have just luck for having the americans (such as allbright and holbruck) to advise them." CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS BECAUSE YOU STOPPED MAKING SENSE NOW. HOW DOES EDUCATION MAKE SOMEONE BETTER THAN THE OTHER? SO BASICALLY, MILOSHEVIC IS BETTER EVEN IF HE KILLED THOUSANDS THAN HARADINAJ WHO WAS TRYING TO PROVIDE EVERYTHING FOR THE MINORITIES (MAINLY SERBS) IN KOSOVA? DUMB COMPARISON. ONE IS A MANIAK (NO MATTER HOW MUCH EDUCATION HE HAS - MILOSEVIC) AND ONE IS AN OPEN MINDED SOLDIER.

"advise you to visit some other sites aside from shqiptarianna to see what you nation is doing to mine. we are already in the 21st century with a brand new government (we kicked out milosevic) negotiating with the EU, while you are still in the 19th the era of nationalism and big words such as nation and freedom."

FIRST, THERE IS NO SHQIPTARIANA AND THERE IS SERBIANA. SECOND, STOP DREAMING YOURSELF IN THE 21ST CENTURY. YOU STILL HAVE RADICALS LEADING THE COUNTRY, AND STILL HIDING WAR CRIMINALS (OF WHO YOU HAVE PLENTY)... DID YOU SAY YOU WERE GOING TO JOIN THE EU?
WHILE MY COUNTRY HAS A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT, WE DIDNT VOTE IN THE RADICALS LIKE YOU.

"have a nice day, hoping that you will get enlightened and admit what mistakes have your own countrymen done to you. germans have learned from their mistakes, we aswell, but just the albanians are still in the darkness"

IF YOU HAVE LEARNED FROM YOUR MISTAKES WHAT ARE YOU STILL MUMBLING ABOUT? IT WAS A MISTAKE TO TRY AND CONQUER ANOTHER COUNTRY, YOU REALIZED IT NOW GIVE UP. I WOULD THINK THAT SERBS ARE BEING CHEATED BY THEIR GOVERNEMNT MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THE REGION. IM SORRY, BUT YOU ARE STARVING.

SINCE YOU DIDNT HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING AGAINST THE REST (WHICH WAS THE MOST) OF MY COMMENTS IM GUESSING THAT YOU LEARNED SOMETHING.

HAVE A NICE DAY
FATOS

Kristian said...

cvijus84 Which was a state first, kosovo/a or serbia? Go check your history books and not Wikipedia. Serbia was recognized as a state after Kosovo/a and then the citizens of Kosovo/a and Vojvodina voluntarily and seperately voted to join serbia. So that means kosovo/a didn't belong to serbia and prior to the last century it belonged to the ottoman empire for 500+yrs. So how do you see it as only a serbian property when it truly belongs to the ppl of Kosovo/a. Go read some more poetry and myth's and about golden spoons that kings ate with. Totally Fictitious and a MYTH!

Cvijus011 said...

Oh Lord, this will be a long post...

Fatos,

If Serbs treated Albanians the way you claim they did, there would be no Albanians in Kosovo-Metohija. If you claim that Serbs were undermining Albanians all the time, than Albanians would not have been given an autonomy in 1945.

"Yes my friend, we know how to swim better than you do because are nation happens to have access to sea while yours is landlocked, and thats how it will stay"

That is not the reason why asked you if you all Albanians know how to swim.

"IF YOU HAVE LEARNED FROM YOUR MISTAKES WHAT ARE YOU STILL MUMBLING ABOUT? IT WAS A MISTAKE TO TRY AND CONQUER ANOTHER COUNTRY"

We learned from the mistakes of killing innocent people, which is wrong, but what you said, conquering foreing countries? That it is pathetic. Under every single convention so far kosovo-Metohija is recognized as a part of Serbia FULL STOP. What we were doing was enforcing law and order in OUR OWN TERRITORY. GOT THAT? But I don't care if a divided Kosovo-Metohija gets independence because I don't want that our government has to deal with you people anymore.

"WHILE MY COUNTRY HAS A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT, WE DIDNT VOTE IN THE RADICALS LIKE YOU."

How the fuck do you know for whom did I vote?
Do you really know what democracy is? It is from the Greek words Demos - people and Krato - to hold, or in other words the rule of the people. If the people chooses to vote for the Radicals, fine, according to the essence of democracy whatever the people chooses. I mean you claim to have democratic institutions in Kosovo-Metohija and Taqi and Haradinai as war criminals and extremists received positions. under your logic, the same as the radicals Taqi and Haradinai should be banned from practicing politics.

"SINCE YOU DIDNT HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING AGAINST THE REST (WHICH WAS THE MOST) OF MY COMMENTS IM GUESSING THAT YOU LEARNED SOMETHING."

Nah, I'm just to bored and my time is scarce in answering all the rubbish you wrote.

Kristian,

At your posts aside from some pathetic elements, I just see complete ignorance of historical facts and sentitmental behavior.
You say Kosovo is recognized before Serbia. When was that? Bare in mind that Serbia was recognized as an selfexecuting autonomous state (practically independent) in 1835, fully independent in 1878. And I'm just talking about the modern age.

"Go read some more poetry and myth's and about golden spoons that kings ate with. Totally Fictitious and a MYTH!"

I suggest you to go and read some fairy tails about Skenderbeg, Albanian dukes in Kosovo and whatever you already have that you claim it is "Albanian history".

ivan said...

"Serbia was recognized as a state after Kosovo/a and then the citizens of Kosovo/a and Vojvodina voluntarily and seperately voted to join serbia"

Kristian, why do you use this argument, when Serbia was under occupation from Nazi Germany when this so called election took place. Albania and Kosovo albanians had a privilleged status during that occupation only because you were in the AXIS alliance. Dont forget that more than 20 milion people died due to this alliance, and during this occupation 2 milion Serbs were killed. Now is this democracy? Is this the so called democratic vote you use as your argument?

ivan said...

just to add, Kosovo& Metohija have been part of Serbia before the AXIS occupation.

Anonymous said...

"If Serbs treated Albanians the way you claim they did, there would be no Albanians in Kosovo-Metohija. If you claim that Serbs were undermining Albanians all the time, than Albanians would not have been given an autonomy in 1945."

Did the 1.5 million Albanians flee their country to go in vacation in Albania and Macedonia? Come on sto being so ridiculous.

I think I got you mad, like everyone gets when they look for answers that dont exist. Thats all I wanted. To make you realize how dumb your nation and your goals are.

Best,
Fatos

Kristian said...

To: cviju84
I suggest you to go and read some fairy tails about Skenderbeg, Albanian dukes in Kosovo and whatever you already have that you claim it is "Albanian history".

You know what your biggest problem is, its that you ASSUME things about ppl and lash out bc you get razzled by someone elses comments. Look at Ivan's post, and yes Ivan it was a terrible time and that much loss of life is terrible. In 1878 the kingdom of serbia was established but kosovo/a didn't belong to that kingdom that was recognized. Again it still belonged to the Ottoman Empire. So reread your history books, you know the biased ones and the communist ones that distort history.