Monday, September 26, 2005

Macedonian Albanian leader Ahmeti visits Kosovo, backs independence

Pristina, 26 September: Ali Ahmeti, leader of the Democratic Union for Integration, last weekend [24-25 September] paid a visit to Pristina and met with Emrush Xhemajli, chairman of the People's Movement of Kosovo, Kosovo and Albanian media told Monday [26 September].

The meeting, as MIA reports, focused on current political situation prior to expected negotiations on Kosovo status.

Ahmeti reiterated the position of his party for support of independence of Kosovo and stated that both Macedonian and Albanian parties are convinced that "Kosovo independence will contribute to stability, security and peace in Macedonia and the region", media told.

Source: MIA news agency, Skopje, in English 0913 gmt 26 Sep 05

84 comments:

Anonymous said...

I am an american who is getting ready to go to Kosova to work with UNMIK. I have been studying Kosovo and the situation there so that I can gain an understanding of the situation.

I must say. The people bickering on this blog is fascinating. You sound like grade school children. "Serbs are cruel" "Albanians are animals" "We are the victims" "You are the abusers". EVERY political, cultural or ethnic sect has extremists and troublemakers that one could point to in order to villanize that entire sect. To apply the actions of the troublemakes, abuser, extremeists is to sterotype. I saw one blogger who said he was Albanian and had Serb friends... and he couldn't understand where the hate comes from. It is easier to point at someone else and crow about their deficiencies than to look at yourself and take some sort of responsibility for what goes on around you. How easy it is to hate Serbs/Albanians, blame them for everything and sit back feeling smug and victimized. Did Serbs commit atrocities? Yes. Did Albanians? Yes. Do they speak for all Serbs or all Albanians? Do YOU appreciate being judged by everyone for something someone in your particular group did? But you can so easily stand in judgement of everyone else?

My study of this situation, which I might add was done with no preconceptions, no hidden agendas and no personal prejudices or biases, has been very interesting. It appears to me that easiest solution to the Kosova problem is to let the people living in Kosova choose their own destiny. That is what democracy is all about. Do other groups have historical claims on the area? Sure. Does is matter? No. Hundreds of years ago, the United States took land that was historically Native American, Historically Spanish and French. Does that me that we are now obligated to give them back? Irregardless of how Kosova got to be an Albanian majority, the people of Kosova should have a say in the fate of their area. There is not solution that everyone with think is fair. Threats of destabilization or retaliation only make the process harder and betray the weakness of one's stance.

In reference to some of the previous comments:

1) Texas has driver's license tests in English and Spanish.

2) California schools, and many other states, provide ESL (english as a second language) educations.

3) The rights of minorities, ethnic groups and religious groups are protected by law. After the terrorist attack on New York in 2001, the United States did not retaliate against all muslims. They were protected by law.

4) If you burn the flag in the United States, you are protected under the first ammendment of our constitution. You get police protection, not a foot in your ass.

5) I am a military veteran and have sons in the US Military. Do I like it when people burn the flag? NO. Does it piss me off? Sure. BUT, I have an obligaiton to respect a person's right to free speech. Many americans died protecting our rights.... I don't like the things some people do... but I respect and defend their right to do it......

Rather than bickering about who is worse, who's "people" caused more hardship, who is a liar, who is an animal, why don't you try respecting each other. You don't have to like what Albanians/Serbs do..... but if you respect their point of view (rather than to act like you come from long line of flawless saints) you might actually GET SOMEWHERE. You don't have to like each other. You don't have to be friends. You don't have to buy in to each other's arguments. But you should, at the very least, respect them. YOU DO WANT EVERYONE ELSE TO RESPECT YOUR POINT OF VIEW DON'T YOU? But you are too smug and full of yourself to lower yourself to respect the point of view of others......

Do I think this will change anything? NO

Do I think anyone here will do anything but call me names? NO

Do I think anyone will heed my advice or open their minds? NO

Why did I say all this? Beats Me. Hope I guess.

Anonymous said...

I have a question for you mr. american. When the americans is the south united states wanted independence, why didn't the north respect their decision and their right to self-determination instead of creating a civil war.

If the great state of Texas does one day have a majority hespanis population and decides they want to be independent from the United States will they be free to go? Answer: Hell No!!

Anonymous said...

God speed Mr.Veteran. Kosovo people need the assistance of people like you. As to your rhetorical question whether someone wouldn't heed your advice or open their minds, the answer is yes. Especially, if the reader of your message is open-minded and understands that the reality may be different from what s/he perceives as such.

Anonymous said...

Well said (original post). Too bad not many people on this blog are likely to be openminded enough to read and consider what you have to stay. I think as Americans, we are able to posit these sorts of optimistic ideals with genuine and good intentions. However, unfortunately, we don't have the lifetime of experience that many people who live in Kosovo (both Serbs and Albanians) have had to go though, thereby making them full of hate and cynical. I'm not attempting to minimize the impact of that past, nor could I (as an American) ever fully understand it.

However, I don't think that that 'outsiders' (American's and others) should be denigrated as wrong and naive for trying to encourage some openmindedness. It's pretty clear that the current mindset, tactics, and stonewalling have NOT been working very well thus far for the people in Kosovo as they continue to propagate lies and hatred, many of whom are unwilling to attempt to work toward a better future for everybody. Maybe it's time for a change???

Anonymous said...

You all speak well, but it is clear who is here to point fingers and stir up hatered and who is here because they actualy care about a future.

I shall not point fingers, but all I ask is for my country, Kosova, to be left alone and away from the very real threat that lies on the north (a threat to itself too).

Now if that desire makes me cynical, fine, full of hatered, not good, but I cannot comprehend how anyone can come and claim my people and home as hostage to irrational historical "facts" and through racist ideology. And this is what is being fought here almost daily, not some rational remarks by those against Kosovar independence.

Let the people of Kosova choose their future, and let the people of Serbia choose their future or doom if be it, but do keep in mind that we have kept our humanity even in the harshest of times, and we do not plan to loose it for certain elements of our sad humanity.

Albanians may be primitive and they may lack organisational skills, and may be a clan culture, all which makes them easily-hated, but this is our problem and one we are aware of. We don't blame the Serbs for this, and all we want is to be live and let live.

Peace from peace loving Albanians...
A Catholic/Muslim/Budhist/Jewish/Human kind of Albanian

P.S. forgot to say, ICE CREAM for Serbia!

Anonymous said...

Point taken. I did not intend to assert that Albanians, generally speaking, do not desire peace. I was trying to be balanced, but it is fairly evident (as also shown through the commentary on this blog and other sources) which side seems to be more deluded and inflammatory, and which side is more calm and desiring a sense of "justice".

Best wishes to you (the above blogger, and other peace-loving Albanians).

Anonymous said...

In my origional post I certainly did not intend to intimate that America is perfect. Nor are we likely to experience a break-up like Yugoslavia did, so hypothosyzing is irrelevant. If it did somehow happen.... by the way (American History Lesson) the state charter for Texas gives it the RIGHT to suceed from the United Stated because Texas gained it's stateship as an independent nation. It is the only state to have that privilege.

The comment that the American Civil War somehow makes my opinon moot is a perfect example of the closed-minded attitude of which I speak. If you can snipe at my history, you can obfiscate the issue and avoid looking at the reality of the situation, or of my comments. As a student of American History I actually agree that the North (in the Civil War) really had not right to keep the South in the union (this based on the US's reasoning for engaging in the American Revolution in 1776. That being said... If the United States had been allowed to break up in 1861, we would not have been a super-power. We would have been a fractous, marginalized presence on the world scene. There would have been no NATO, no UN and everyone in Europe would be speaking German. I have no dilusions about my own history. But what happened in the US a hundred and fifty years ago has no bearing on the Kosova situation NOW. You can not equate what is happening in Kosova now with the United States. We are an entirely diverse population. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but governed by the will of the people. I don't always have the president or governor that I want.... but we allow the will of the people to prevail.

I can understand, and sense in this blog, the anger, bitterness and despair that is present now in Kosova. I don't say you should not feel that way. Alot of people have suffered terribly, Serbs and Albanians alike. But you must OVERCOME that bitterness, or you have no hope as a person or as a people. It is hard, I will not oversimplify the difficulty of overcoming a brutal past. But you MUST. You can not move forward until you stop looking back.

I am an instructor in the US and when I teach classes in professionalism, I define professionalism as this:

"Professionalism is working well with someone you DON'T like"

Perhaps that idiom can be translated to the situation in Kosova. Hate, anger, bitterness and fingerpointing are self-sustaining. The key is to live and coexist peacefully and respectfully with people you don't like. I don't hate Japanese (even though I could cite Pearl Harbor) I don't hate Muslims (even though I could blame them for 9/11) I don't hate Germans (even though they plunged us into two world wars) You simply must rise above it.

I don't consider myself a great pilanthropist, but I want to go to Kosova because I want to do something meaningful in my life. If I can somehow help the people of Kosova, I will feel as though I have done something more important that writing old ladies a ticket for running a stop sign.

I am also of Slavic descent. My great, great grandparent were from Slovenia. I want to understand the situation in Kosova. I think I understand it well enough to know that the people will never move forward, until they rise above the anger, mistrust and bitterness of the past. If you WANT to hate someone, you can always find a reason.

To the bloggers that responded positively to my first post....

Thank You....

you have given me hope

Anonymous said...

Sir,

I gather you are going to Kosova as a UNMIK policeman. That's very nice of you, although as you will see, you'll get somewhat dissapointed by the UNMIK police force and its inability to solve crimes.
Most of Albanians today don't care about religous or national extremism as some posters here try to portray them. Most of them, including my family, are trying to make a break in the desperate economic conditions that still today reign in Kosova. For this and the very symbolic effors of Serbia to try its war criminals, people just can't grasp it that six years after the war some ultranationalist in Belgrade is still deciding over their lives. It's true that one can't blame a whole nation for the crimes of the few, but when those criminals still rule or in ways perpetuate the policies of their criminal predcessors, what is simple dude in Kosova to think. In a sense, the war is not over yet, the dead are not buried yet... Let's hope that with independence things will turn around.

Anonymous said...

I'm an American working in Kosova.I have lived and worked in this region for almost 10 years now and know the situation well. It is very easy for my American colleague to come in here and blast everyone else for sniping and being full of hate. I'll remind him that in America our divisions were on full display very recently and before we come in saying a pox on both your houses why can't you all just get along?

That you understand where this all derives from and understand the history of this region a bit more deeply than you do and most importantly that you understand something about minorities and ethnic nationalisms. It has been 150 years since slavery and many blacks are still treated as second-class citizens in the US this 40 years after the civil rights struggles. Poles still do not forgive Germans or Russians for their past history and crimes against them and the Germans have only this year created a national memorial to the holocaust. But somehow muslims who were slaughtered in this region are supposed to forgive and forget tomorrow. This is unfair and rather ridiculous in my opinion.

Serbs have dominated this region, unfairly in many cases, causing resentment to build-ask your Slovenian brethern if they wish to reunite with Serbia or better yet ask a Croat. The underlying reason Yugoslavia broke up was economic. Serbia and other poorer republics were holding back Slovenia and Croatia by being a drag on their economies and pushing that money into oppression of, primarily Albanians, in Kosova. So this isn't some deep, dark historical wrong rooted in Prince Lazar and that rubbish. It's very simply about money.

The situation that Kosova finds itself in now is that the Serbian minority do not wish to be ruled by Albanians. But if they live here they will either accept it or move to Nis or wherever. But of course despite their hatred of albanians they have no problem coming here for jobs with the international community.

The problem with Kosova now is the building of this province which the UN has not done. The UN police are not very professional in my opinion and since two police officers have recently been arrested for smuggling migrants even Petersen finally acknowledges there are problems. Myself, I know where to find a policeman I just go look in the bars on Luan Haradinaj in Prishtina. So if you can actually get them working, you know like helping find criminals,keeping the motorways safe that'll be some progress there.

The Albanians have to move past their politicians who are stuck on the Serbs- the reality is the Serbs have no power anymore here because they themselves negated it by not voting-and move on to development which means getting the power on 24 hours a day for example. The UN has put in 150 million Euros into these plants and what? Crap. You could have built another plant for that kind of money. Why not use alternative energy sources and build cleaner plants?

That's what I want to see on these boards discussion of the future not the past.

Anonymous said...

To poster 7:41am

You said if the Serbs don't want to be ruled by albanians they should move to Nis. Why wasn't the answer for the albanians in 1999 that if they didn't want to be ruled by Serbs move to Tirana, since Kosovo and Metohija is Serbian land?

Anonymous said...

It hurts me to say so, but I am becoming a minority in my own country. The hands of several more powerful nations have negatively effected my own. I feel for the Serbs, because you are having the same troubles, but to a lesser extent (just Kosovo). I have lost my country already, my only suggestion to you (the Serbs) is to maintain your Serbian identity throughout your nation, even if that means giving up Kosovo. Makedonija za Makedoncite.

-Makedonec

Anonymous said...

KOSOVO not Kosova. It's not Albanian yet.

Anonymous said...

Kosovo and Metohija will never be albanian. at the least it will be turned into another West Bank.

Anonymous said...

to the At 10:21 AM,

Think, just think for a minute, the serbs make up less then 7% of the population in Kosova and moving them to serbia would not be that hard..on the other hand, moving 90% kosovar-albanians to Albania would be little bit complicated would it..

accept that Kosova is lost, its a lost case for the serbs, let us now build a future where we stand as two independent states, Serbia-Kosova, maybe playing a football game or something..now wouldn't that be much better then continuing the politics of Slobo the butcher...

"It's not Albanian yet. " to the above blogger, in what sense..please explain..I must have been living in some other world, because last time I was in Kosova, I saw no serbian police, serbians flags, signs..or anything else..nothing in Kosova says Serbia, absolutly nothing, I might say that the orthodox churches belong to the albanians (didn't this sound like a typical serb trying to steal other cultures.., okey they belong to you..And I hope u all visit them..with a visa approved by the government of kosova)

Anonymous said...

Actually, the albanians were doing a pretty good job of moving out of Kosovo and Metohija in the spring of 1999 if I do recall.

Anonymous said...

Once the ethnic albanians get out from behind the american skirt they been hiding, I predict a great balkan war to settle things winner take all. Lots of luck to you, Shiptars!!

Anonymous said...

I am a Macedonian, I believe that ahmeti only speaks for himself and not the Macedonian government. Macedonia hasn't got a better neighbor than Serbia

Aleksandar said...

We should recognize Kosovo as an independent country.
Albanians in Kosovo should have their own country separate from Serbia. Macedonia should recognize Kosovo by the end of 2005.
Aleksandar

Anonymous said...

Following five years of United Nations control and billions of dollars of international aid, Kosovo is a lawless region "owned" by the Albanian mafia, characterized by continuing ethnic cleansing and subject to increasing infiltration by al Qaeda-linked Muslim jihadists, according to a whistleblower interviewed by Cybercast News Service. By Sherrie Gossett
www.CNSNews.com

Anonymous said...

To Aleksander:

A true Macedonian would never say that because you know what happens to Macedonia should Kosovo become independent. We can kiss our sweet country of Macedonia good bye. The albanians (which I believe you are one of) will want to independence for western Macedonia.

Daut

Anonymous said...

If the United Nations recommends against independence, Gambill said, it will spur the Saudis to increase their involvement in the region. "They've got the money, they've got the power. They'll remind Kosovars that they are their true friends. And they'll help the extremists fight and prepare terrorist attacks against internationals and even NATO troops stationed there," Gambill told Cybercast News Service.

Anonymous said...

There can only be a bright future between Macedonia, Kosova, Albania and Bulgaria.

To the first blogger:
Did you read those few posts above? Those inciting historical "hatered", using derrogatory names such as "siptar" for Albanian...those my dear friend are the people we don't want to deal with, and they happen to be from Serbia and they are no different than those sitting in Belgrade. Do they represent this nation? I certainly hope NOT, but we will not take any chances...

ICE CREAM to SERBIA!!!!

Anonymous said...

Excuse me, I resent you calling me a Serb. I told you I am Macedonian.

Anonymous said...

What about a bright future for Albania and Bulgaria, we can split up Kosovo and Macedonia.

Anonymous said...

If Serbia does not let go of Kosovo, it well get even more, for lack of a better word, fucked. Macedonians, look at our country. Terrorists holding high positions in our government? Ali Ahmeti is the so called NLA's equivalent to an Osama Bin Ladin. For those of you from the U.S. that did not know, the U.S. aided the terroist NLA organization in Macedonia during the 2001 war. After a "peace-treaty" was signed between the terroists and the Macedonian goverment, all ALbanian terrorists were granted amnesty, and many moved on to hold high ranking positions in Macedonia's government. I always thought that the U.S's stance on terrorism was non-negotiation, but in reality, it is exactly the opposite. If you are from the U.S. and deny that this happened you are a hypocrit and either ignorant and/or an idiot. As for the message at 11:41 AM, of course his words do not represent those of his Macedonian counterparts. However, for the sake of a better future for Serbia, unlike the one that is comming to Macedonia, unless great changes occur (e.g. a non sell-out government), I reccommend that the Serbians give up that land. Makedonija za Makedoncite.

-Makedonec

Anonymous said...

If the Serbs give up on Kosovo and Metohija the albanians will not stop there They will continue on with western Macedonia and Presevo. I was in Tetovo this past summer I only saw albanian flags not one Macedonian Flag. It is already starting.

Anonymous said...

I once heard someone say that "Milosevic's one fault was not getting rid of all the Albanians from Kozovo." He meant killing all the terrorist and kicking out all of the civilians. Truer words could not have been spoken, because it would have saved the entire region a lot of trouble (mainly Serbia and Macedonia).

Anonymous said...

Serbs and Macedonians ! Be patient. There is a plan for all this. I know it and i have seen it one week ago. Dont think that Kosovo will be independent - I know it will not. Its a promise. Wait and see.

Anonymous said...

U.S. company Microsoft, world's leading software producer, on Tuesday stated that it would soon open a development center in Belgrade, which would be its fifth center of the kind so far.

The only way kosovo will be part of any technological superpower is to remain within Serbia.

I wonder why Microsoft doesn't open a development office in Pristina or Tirana?

Anonymous said...

UNMIK spokeswoman Hua Jiang said Tuesday that UNMIK representatives have expressed belief that the Pristina delegation for talks on the status of Kosovo would include representatives of minorities and the civilian society.

Yeah why aren't there any Serbs, Roma's, Bosniaks and Turks to represent a multi ethnic kosovo?

Anonymous said...

A popular saying in Macedonia is that Albanians (from Albania) cannot afford a loaf of bread, but they have the most expensive cars. 99.9% of Albanians are terrorists. The .1% that is not a terrorist is the ones that are still in their mother's wombs. The reason I draw this concusion is, because I have not heard one Albanian EVER condemn or express guilt over what happened in Macedonia.

Anonymous said...

If the west was going to grant Kosovo and Metohija independence they would have done it by now. They are creatively designing a strategy to get the UNMIK soldiers out through Serbia when Kosovo is not granted Independence.

Anonymous said...

Albanians apologizing to Macedonians, for what? For asking to listen to their university lectures in their maternal language? For wanting their share of spots in the military and police? For wanting to raise whatever flag they feel like? For wanting to listen to news in their own language?

Give me a break, homie. It's rather the opposite. You should be ashamed that in the 21st century one minority has to use violence to get some basic rights accepted accross Europe.

Choosing between bread and cars is our very own problem and it doesn't concern you; however, you have a very bad one with racism.

Anonymous said...

No where in the world are you aloud to raise a flag of a foreign country with out the flag of the host country. As for learning in a foreign language(albanian) or news in albanian, privately funded programs no government funding.

ONE COUNTRY = ONE LANGUAGE

Albanians are a guest in Macedonia if you don't like it go home to Albania.

Anonymous said...

The Macedonians shouldn't have been so gracious when the albanians were on its border in 1999. They should have just turned them back at gun point since that is all they understand.

Anonymous said...

"Thaçi: Only one solution – statehood"

This guy is going to be the achilles heal (weak link) to the Albanian negotiating team.

Anonymous said...

See what I mean? The guy who posted at 3:30. Still have yet to hear just ONE Albanian who did not support the terrorists, whether it be directly or indirectly. Every last one of you are animals and even the West knows it. I wish it had been your race that went extinct, and not the good old dinosaurs. They probably had a big enough brain to feel guilty when they had done something wrong. Fuck all you inbreds.

Anonymous said...

The best the albanians can hope for is something that is 'conditional limbo'. The international community doesn't trust the albanians. There will be more unrest there as a result. More albanians will die at the hands of those who won their war for them. You read it here folks.

Anonymous said...

I invite all the international users to carefully read what Serbs and Macedonians are writting. This is what we fought against during Milosebiatch and in 2001.
As for Albanians being guests; pal do some history readings. There was never a Slav Macedonia in that part of the balkans before the slav migration. Real Macedonians spoke Greek and they were further East and south. There were Albanians and the Greek tribe of Macedonia, no slavs whatsoever. Albanians still remain. So if there's any guest in that part of the Balkans those are the Slav Macedonians- guests to Greece.

Anonymous said...

It was the former Macedonian former prime minister the one who proposed the division of Macedonia and not any of the NLA leaders. He proposed this to Ali Ahmeti and the Albanian prime minister at that time Ilir Meta. Both of them refused such a plan because it is not in the interest of the Albanians to see families who have been living in their lands for hundreeds of years be forcefully moved because some psycho wants an ethnicaly clean pieace of land. Albanians fought for more rights in the Macedonian society and not division, and the fact that both Ali Ahmeti and Ilir Meta refused the division of Macedonia says a lot about the intentions of the Albanians.

Macys have no choise but live side by side in a democratic society. That is why the international community created the Ohrid agreement. To get rid of brainwashed ultrantionalists from guiding Macedonia and bring its division.
On the other side Macedonians should be very careful from Serbian priests spreading Serb propaganda in Macedonia. That is what fuels conflicts (Serb propganda who in most cases comes from the Serb church).

Anonymous said...

Very good comment by the last poster. Albanians fought for basic rights and not seperation along ethnic lines. They fought so they could fight along Macedonians in the Macedonian army. Also, Macedonians shouldn't forget that Bulgaria is waiting at their doorsteps ready to snatch a piece of it. This fact came as a surprise to me when a Bulgar waiter (a wonderful fellow) at the US dismissed Macedonians as just Bulgars with confused identity desperately trying to get Bulgarian citizenship and yet not being thankful.

I was speechless.

Anonymous said...

tragic.
the entire point of the original poster has been completely lost, and i must admit, it seems to have been mostly serbian and macedonian posters who brought down the level of this debate. i am an american, and i have been trying to remain partial (neutral) in this discussion, however i have seen nothing but intelligent and level-headed responses from albanians concerned about their welfare and future, but hatred from some serbian and macedonian bloggers.

this one comment frightened me the same way i have heard austrians in austria say that hilter should have finished his job and eliminated all of the foreigners:
12:59
"I once heard someone say that "Milosevic's one fault was not getting rid of all the Albanians from Kozovo." "

this other comment was also extremely hate-filled and non-productive (from a slavic poster):

6:12
"Every last one of you are animals
"Fuck all you inbreds""

and this comment contained several mistakes, as i have seen flags of all nationalities flying in the US as well as several EU countries:
3:36
"No where in the world are you aloud to raise a flag of a foreign country with out the flag of the host country."

he also states that "ONE COUNTRY = ONE LANGUAGE", but what about Switzerland? or Belgium? or America? (The states of Texas and California both have state-funded education in Spanish)

i am very dissapointed in the slavic racism i have seen here, but am also extremely proud of the restraint and maturity i have seen from the albanians.

best of luck!

Anonymous said...

Why today's Macedonians are direct descendents of Alexander?

In 2001 it was genetically proven by a scientific team from Universidad Complutense in Madrid, Spain, that the ancient Macedonians and the ancient Greeks were two separate and distinct peoples. It also proved that the modern Macedonians are descendants of the ancient Macedonians of Alexander the Great, while the modern Greeks are not related to either the ancient or modern Macedonians. The lengthy scientific paper which was published and entitled "HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks", concludes the following: "Macedonians belong to the 'older' Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians. Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum. Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Macedonians are related to other Mediterraneans and do not show a close relationship with Greeks: however, they do with Cretans. This supports the theory that Macedonians are one of the most ancient peoples living in the Balkan peninsula, probably long before the arrival of the Mycaenian Greeks, about 2000 BC.". Thus, genetically and scientifically had been proven not only that the ancient Macedonians were not Greeks, but that they are older then the ancient Greeks. You may read the full content of this genetic study at the following web address: http://www.makedonika.org/processpaid.aspcontentid=ti.2001.pdf (adobe acrobat required)

You are the racist, Slav Macedonian is derogitory, just as if I were to call you a Gypsy. The only difference is, you are a Gypsy. Blood does not lie. We will probably never get the land back, but the least you guys can do is recognize that we exist.

Anonymous said...

Correction for the above link.
http://www.makedonika.org/processpaid.aspcontentid=ti.2001.pdf

Anonymous said...

http://www.makedonika.org/processpa

id.aspcontentid=ti.2001.pdf

Anonymous said...

Frankly I don't think anyone cares what poster 7:40am thinks. He or she is an albanian emigrant who thinks that if he or she says they are american or international his or her comments it will carry more weight.

BLOW ME!!!!!

Frank
NY,USA

Anonymous said...

TIRANA, Albania -- The British embassy in Tirana issued a statement Monday (26 September) warning British citizens who intend to travel in Albania to consider security risks in some areas of the country. According to the statement, cited by the daily Albanian News on Tuesday (27 September), the embassy particularly mentioned northeast border areas between Albania and Kosovo. Recently, a bus carrying some 30 passengers -- including three British tourists -- from Tirana to Shkodra was stopped by an armed gang and robbed. (Albanian News - 27/09/05)

Good Luck to the inhabitants of the balkans that have to put up with these bandits.

Anonymous said...

When Kosova get its independence macedonia will join kosova and we kosovar albanians we will give the Macedonians rights; to vote, to celebrate their national holidays, use their flag, use sings in macedonian aslo, and they have the right to take seats in parlament etc. so both we will have stronger economy stronger army if we join albania too. So Macedonians give me some opinions about my plan ok I think this is great cause soon or later Macedonia is going to lose its identity so you better join kosova or albania cause one day kosova is going to be part of albania as it use to be. email me back at gjimi_p@hotmail.com or put a comment here I would love to hear that ok some comments from macedonians in macedonia not albanians in macedonia cause I know they would join us ciao......

GOD BLESS KOSOVA THE LAND OF DARDANIANS.....

my name is Arton by the way ciao

Ice Cream To Macedonia and Ivan

Anonymous said...

Americans posting on this blog stop posting. You have no say in what is going on in the Balkans (actually, your country probably will, because it puts its corrupt hands on every international problem). If you have not been to Kosovo, Serbia, Macedonia, or any other Balkan countries that you are talking about, shut the fuck up. Noone cares what you have to say. You come on these blogs and say that the Albanians are the only levelheaded ones out of everyone. I guess then, Osama Bin Ladin is more levelheaded then the entire U.S. The ONLY reason the Albanians are fighting for Kosovo and "rights" in Macedonia is for the land. There are no buts, ands, or ifs about it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot. If you don't believe come and see for yourself. Its easy to judge someone from afar. Remember how all of you felt on 9/11? That is how the Serbs and Macedonians felt and still fell in Kosovo and Macedonia since the Albanian terrorists started the wars. Your nation got a reality check when 9/11 occurred, because you realized you were not invinvible when several thousand civilians died. How about all the innocents in Serbia and Macedonia. What about the "accidental" bombing of a Serbian hospital durring the Kosovo crisis? The U.S. has the best military technology in the world and it "accidentaly" missed its target and killed thousands hundreds of Serbian civilians in a hospital. Your country is full of hypocricy and you best check yourselves before you talkl shit about other people's countries. Serbia for the Serbians (and Montenegrins if they still want to chill with the Serbs) and Macedonia for the Macedonians!

-Makedonec

Anonymous said...

To the 7:40 poster. I have come to the conclusion that we are wasting our breath. You can't talk logic to a tree, and this blog is a virtual forest. Name calling, racist remarks and hatred is the last resort of the person who's position is too weak to withstand debate (or the person who is incapable of debate). I have seen a few people on this blog who are intelligent and openminded, and maybe there are more like that... but not here.

Enjoy your self important holier than thou, I'm the victim of the world attitudes. Don't try to be open minded. It is so easy and so comfortable to sling insults and crow about how YOU were wronged. I can only pray and hope that the voices of reason on his blog are the kind of people who will take action in Kosovo, for these people are your only hope.

Anonymous said...

Amen to that!

Anonymous said...

Serbian President Boris Tadic is today in Brighton to meet UK Prime Minister Tony Blair and Foreign Secretary Jack Straw.

Gee, if the status of kosovo was already determined, why would Prime Minister Tony Blair waste his time and speak with President Tadic. You would think Foreign Minister Jack Straw would meet alone.

Anonymous said...

Macedonia will recognize Kosovo when the FTROG (Former Turkish Republic of Greece) recognizes the Republic of Macedonia.

-Ilija

Anonymous said...

To the poster who said Americans should mind their own business....

You should keep in mind that if it weren't for America, you would be speaking German and hailing the 1000 year reich.

Anonymous said...

Shut the fuck up. You pussies had to nuke someone to win. All you did was "clean up" the kills.

Anonymous said...

I want to remind the Macedonians again the following fact.

It was the former Macedonian former prime minister the one who proposed the division of Macedonia and not any of the NLA leaders. He proposed this to Ali Ahmeti and the Albanian prime minister at that time Ilir Meta. Both of them refused such a plan because it is not in the interest of the Albanians to see families who have been living in their lands for hundreeds of years be forcefully moved because some psycho wants an ethnicaly clean pieace of land. Albanians fought for more rights in the Macedonian society and not division, and the fact that both Ali Ahmeti and Ilir Meta refused the division of Macedonia says a lot about the intentions of the Albanians.


We fought for equal rights and not division. Be careful from non-Albanian speaking countries because they are the ones that want to see the demise of Macedonia.


I don't wanna open a fight or say anything derogatory, but I'm curious to know. How can you speak a slavic language share the same culture and customs with the surrounding slavic countries and not be a slav. How can only a research provide for the ethnic identity of a group of people.

You say that Macedonians where the direct descendants of Alexander. You might also know that Alexander's mom is supposed to be Albanian. So you Macedonians according to your logic are part Albanian. Then why the hell are you discriminating on Albanians and fanatically defending the slavic language Macedonians speak today and the slavic customs and at the same time fanatically discriminating the Albanian language and customs. You of all other people of the balkans should have a different attitude.

Anonymous said...

thanks for the american history lesson, while patting yourself on the back. However I already speak German and the Germans are actually more respected today in this part of the world than americans. It use to be the other way around in the world wars but america was different then aswell.

Anonymous said...

For the poster at 9:47. The slavs assimalated with the Macedonians in about the 6th century. That is why we have a slav culture and language. German Jews spoke German and had German first and last names. By your reasoning that means that they are German. We all speak English in the U.S.I guess that means that my grandparents were related to Winston Churchill.

Anonymous said...

However the Jews held to their customs, culture and traditions. So do the hispanics and greeks and Italians in America.
Macedonians today have almost the majority of customs, culture and traditions that other slavs in the Balkans have.

If you are not a Slav and you are descendants of Alexander, who scholars think had some Albanian roots, than how do you explain your hatred towards people with whom you share the same ancestors? How do you explain the fanatical protection of anything of slav origin in Macedonia including your language and total disregard and loathing for anything non-slavic especially the Albanian language and flags. I read here it bothered a Macedonian who declared himself in a very determinate way to be a Slav Macedonian.

Anonymous said...

to 12:57 poster, you're probably right. however, i still have a lot of faith in kosova and its potential. those screaming the loudest on this blog seem to be powered by the fear of failure. given individual upbringings within a minority of hate-filled families, i can sort of understand them, but i am still sorry that the moderate voices don't get more coverage, as those are the ones who truly make up the fabric of each respective culture.
as for the 11:14AM poster who thinks i am an albanian immigrant, i say this: if that helps you justify your own views on american foreign policy, all the power to you. i was born at emerson hospital in concord MA and 20 minutes away from old north bridge where the shot heard round the world was fired 230 years ago. i lived there until 5 years ago, when i moved to austria to work as a translator of German to English. my ancestors were also in concord 230 years ago. i am actually just someone who is extremely interested in the balkans as an area with indescribable beauty, passion and tragedy. the balkans have a lot to offer the world, but some degree of stability must first arrive before the world can really get to know the beautiful side of these cultures. (and congrats on the ALCS last year franky boy, the Bosox are gonna embarrass NY again this weekend)!
and finally to the 12:57PM poster who said "If you have not been to Kosovo, Serbia, Macedonia, or any other Balkan countries that you are talking about, shut the fuck up."
Since I have spent much time in Nis, Prishtina (lived in Ulpian for about 5 weeks), Gjakova, Strpce and Podgorica, to name a few locations, I guess I have your permission to not to "shut the fuck up"? vrlo hvala & shumë falimenderit!
- in hopes of a mature debate, dave

Anonymous said...

Who are these scholars you speak of? Eugene Borza, who is regarded as the "expert on Macedonia", came to the conclusion that the Ancient Macedonians and Greeks were two distinct peoples. Also, many Ancient Greek historians said the same thing. Greeks never claimed that Macedonia was part of Greece until the Republic of Macedonia got independence.

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseMacedonia/MacedoniansNotGreeks.html

Anonymous said...

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseMacedonia/
MacedoniansNotGreeks.html

Anonymous said...

to the 12:15 poster:

The albanian flag has its place in the balkans, its called albania.

As for the albanian culture practice it privately. In america the Jewish, Germans and Italians and anyother culture for that matter is practiced privately and not sanctioned or funded by the federal government.

Anonymous said...

“The goal of discussions (for the status of Kosovo) is to reach a compromise, but a compromise means that we are backing down from our demands for freedom and our human sacrifices made for freedom.” said Kurti

More than autonomy, less than independence.

Anonymous said...

The scientists that did the blood tests and gene research on the Macedonians and Greeks came to the conclusion that the present day Macedonians from the Republic of Macedonian, are part of an older Mediterranean gene substratum. The Mediterraneam substratum is different from that of the Greeks genetic composition and that of the Slavs (Serbs, Croats, etc.) near Macedonia. Scientists base there decisions on scientific research, data, and experiments. It isn't like it was a few centuries ago where scientists just hypothizied or theorized. Studies are now backed by experiments and hard data. The scientists put their careers at risk when they publish findings that may be false, so why would these Spanish and Macedonian scientists publish their findings if they trully did not come to the conclusion that they were correct? As for the debate whether Macedonians are Slavs, it is possible that present day Macedonians are a mix of both Ancient Macedonians and Slavs, which would explain the creation of a Slavic language and adoption of a Slavic culture.

Anonymous said...

Sounds good to me.

-Srbin-

Anonymous said...

Who said the Italians, Jews and Greeks or any other ethnicity practice their culture in private in the USA. Ever heard of columbus day parade. The Sait Patrics day Parade. The Puerto Rican Parade. The Greek Parade. Do u even know that in the state of NY evety Major Holiday is a Holiday throughout the state. The institutions are very much invovled in all of the above as the Mayors and th Governors take part in most of them. These institution also take part in the organization of the celebration of these cultures. Do you know that for every document you have the English version, Spanish version and Chinese version in areas where there is a considerable amount of these ethnicities. Now in NY metro area they have started to include the Albanian version. This is true democracy, true equal rights for everyone. This is why the USA is so different from Europe and the Balkans. Nobody puts you down because of your ethnicity. This is what Albanians fought for in Macedonia and Kosova. True equal rights. The things seem to be going in the right direction in Macedonia. In Kosova equal rights will never be achieved under the supressive regime of Belgrade. More than 100 years of Serb colonialism were enough to prove it. The only way equal rights can be achieved is through independence and the international community acting as a watchdog for the rights of the minorities. Every minority should have and will have the same rights that the majority has in an independent Kosova. The international comunity will be there to guarantee this. We Albanians have suffered and know what it is like to be treated as a second class citizen because of your ethnicity, we will strive to create a democracy when nobody will go through the same sufferings we went.

Everyone will have the right to raise his flag up high to speak his language, to celebrate his culture and not be hampered in reaching his goals in life because of his ethnicity.

Anonymous said...

*Everey Jewish major Holiday is a state holiday.

Anonymous said...

It seems that the only thing that ties Macedonians to ancient Macedonians is this research. As every thing else seems to be slavic, starting from the language, culture, customs and tradition. It is therefore accurate to say Macedonians are slavs just like Albanians lets say in Croatia who were assimilated by the Croatians today are slavs. They mights have common genetics with Albanians in Albania and Kosova but nothing else connects them. They've adopted the Croatian language, culture, and customs. They do not have anything that connects them to the Albanians except that hundreeds of years ago they had a common ancestor.
However if you take the Arberesh Albanians in Italy you can cnsider them Albanians since they have been living in Italy for at least 500 years and they still speak Albanian, have the same culture and customs that we have in Albania today and even celebrate the same holidays.
It is accurate to say that unlike the Arberesh the Macedonians today do not share anything with the ancient Macedonians but they share plenty with the slav people in Balkans.
This also explains the ongoing conflicts in Macedonia.

Anonymous said...

Well serbs calls Albanians Terrorists just because albanians are convertet to Islam that does not mean that our roots come from Middle East ok serbians We Albabnias were Christians but when ottman empire came in to the Balkans they changet a lot of things even though they left some of their traditions to the balkan people so we Albanians have Muslims, Catholics, Orthodoks, etc but we never fought because of the religion We Albanians bealive that every human being have their own why to chose they religion and son we do not criticize people because of their reliegion so you serbs get real always somethig happen they blame us Albanians just because of religion come on know you know better than that we are Albanians ok I'm muslim but I'm not agenist any other releigion everyone has their own way of chosing religuion etc.. So serbs get real Stop with religion don't put religion in this situation this is not about religion....


God Bless Albanians and God Bless the nations that helped people of Kosova

Independence for Kosova is the only solution... So you serbs just go head and accept the reality and no more Drama no more

Anonymous said...

Well if NY is offering true equal rights let the albanians move there. Why would anyone stay in a place in which they are not wanted?

Anonymous said...

If a serb spoke serbian and wore a shirt with the serbian flag in the heart of Pristina he would be mobbed and killed. That is while there is international police everywhere. It will only be worse if kosovo became independent.

A bulgarian UN Peacekeeper was shot dead in Kosovo for speaking Serbian.

Anonymous said...

It was extremely difficult for Macedonians to keep thier culture and customs throughout the years. After Alexander's death, they were conquered by the Romans. After the Romans, the Slavs moved in and assimilated. After the Slavs came the Ottomans took over for about 500 years. After the Ottomans came Serbia, Albania, Bulgaria, and Greece. Most of the Ancient Macedonian land was taken by Greece in 1913. It is safe to say when that piece of land went, so did a lot of our nation's ancient history. There are very few places in pressent day Macedonia, such as Bitola, where there are remenants of Ancient Macedonia. Like I said before, Modern Greece did their best to destroy any evidence of an Ancient Macedonia existing, but that all changed after Macedonia gained Independence. That was the first time since 1913, when Greece took Aegean Macedonia, that Aegean Macedonia was called "Macedonia".

Anonymous said...

By the way Modern Greeks do not have Ancient Greek culture. There language is not even the Ancient Greek language. They very well good be related to Ancient Greeks, but it is very doubtful. Modern day Greeks are mixed (Ancient Greeks + Ancient Macedonians + Slavs + Albanians + Turks). For some reason, however, Greece denies that it has any minorities on its soil.

P.S. several dozens of tomes were found in Macedonia with the Ancient Macedonian language on them. However, not enough were found to reconstruct the language.

Anonymous said...

For the poster at 1:22. The U.S. doesn't discriminate against ethnicity. How about the blacks? slavery was abolished about 150 years ago. Blacks are still very much misstreated in the U.S. Why does the U.S. have the highest crime rate out of any civilized democratic country? Is it because everyone loves eachother and respects everyone elses culture? the U.S. you are talking about sounds like a Utopia. A place with tolerance like that will never exist.

Anonymous said...

Why can't the Macedonian minority in Albania get equal rights? Why can't they fly there flag without their life being threatened. Why can't they join the government? The world powers setup a double standard for the Balkans, and unfortuneately the Albanians got the good end of it.

Also, the Serb, Turk, Roma, and Vlach minorities in Macedonia don't have a problem with the Macedonain government. Why is that?

Anonymous said...

excellant points posters 2:45 and 2:49

Anonymous said...

Anyone can fly their flag in Albania without being threatened. You had Serb merchants selling stuff on the streets of Tirana the whole summer and none of them was touched for being Serbs. U know that in Albania we have whole schools open for a clas of 2 Macedonian students. They should be open. I wanna remind the Macedonians again. Macedonia will not be divided from Albanians. The Macedonian former minister offered the division of Macedonia to NLA and Albanian leaders in Albania and it was refused. We fought for equal rights and when 25% of the popullation are denied of their rights they surely will make some noise. That will happen anywhere in the world.

As for the democracy in the US, it is not perfect but it is the best in the world.
The blacks only suffer from closed minded people like you. Unfortunately there are people like you in every corner of the earth.

As for Macedonian suffering a lot we Albanians went through the same things you mentioned and we held on to our traditions and most importantly our religion. There are still Illyrian holidays we celebrate. ( Serbs here will of course say some brainwashe $hit.)

If the Macedonians really regarded themselves as the "children" of the ancient Macedonians than they wouldn't b.i.t.c.h so much about anything slav or be so anti-Albanian. Even Alexander had legions of Albanians in his army.
Today there are three kinds of Macedonians I've seen.
1. Those who regard themselves as Serbs, pure Slavs.
2. Those who regard themselves as direct ancestors of the ancient Macedonians.
3. Those who regard themselves of being a mix between ancient Macedonians and the Slavs.
I have to say that is confusing for a non-Macedonian let alone the existence of a unique Macedonian identity in Macedonia.

P.S Macedonia doesn have a problems with Vlachs, Roma, Turks etc because this 2% of the popullation kept quiet whil Albanians fought for equal rights and they got their equal rights as a result of our fight. They didn't need to raise their voice they profitted form the situation.

To the Serb dude, go to North Mitrovica or Gracanica wearing or speaking Albanian. I assure you'll be shot dead. And serbs are a minority in Kosova lets not talk about Albanians speaking Albanian in Serbia. Serbs are one of the most brainwashed people in the world.

Anonymous said...

* Most importantly we held on to our language. Religion is a personal issue it has no relevance in the identity of our nation.
I made a mistake.

Anonymous said...

albanians are a minority in Serbia, which kosovo and metohija is apart of.

Anonymous said...

Kosova was nevver part of serbia Kosova was always will be Albania so deal with it.

KOsova is getting its independence just like croatia bosnia etc. After kosova's situation Montenegro is next and after that is Vojvodina which whants to be seperated from serbia.;))))

Anonymous said...

Have you looked at a map of Serbia lately?

Anonymous said...

Montenegro, Vojvodina, Kosovo, Makedonia, Bosna are Serb.

Anonymous said...

And two Greeks were killed by Shiptar terrorists in Kosovo because they were Greeks. You call that "democracy".