BRUSSELS, April 29, 2006 (AFP) -
NATO urged Serbia Saturday finally to arrest war crimes fugitive Ratko Mladic and find a positive solution for Kosovo to pave the way to acceptance within the North Atlantic Alliance.
"See that Mladic gets to The Hague, and I can tell you that NATO will bring you in very quickly, then you can continue stabilisation and association with the European Union," said NATO Secretary-General Jaap De Hoop Scheffer, speaking at a forum in Brussels on transatlantic relations.
Mladic, a former Bosnian Serb military commander, has remained at large for more than 10 years since being indicted by The Hague war crimes tribunal for his role in Bosnia's 1992-95 war on charges of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity.
"The only recipe for security and stability is EU and NATO membership," said de Hoop Scheffer."We need Serbia in an active and positive role in the Kosovo negotiation ... My plea is: make it possible for all of us, to make this happen. You can do it happen, please do it quickly."
United States diplomat Richard Holbrooke, architect of the Dayton agreements on Bosnia, said the main issue for Serbia was "to figure out how to protect your long-term future. And to start the process by which Serbia finally takes its role as an important country inside the EU over time."
Holbrooke also foresaw an independent future for Kosovo.
The majority ethnic Albanian province has been run by the UN since Serb forces were forced out by a NATO-led assault in 1999.
"How it happens is of immense importance to the future of Europe," he stressed. "All the rights of the minority people of Kosovo, which means primarily the Serbs, must be respected, their churches, culture, their language.
"This will require an international security presence, and, speaking personally, I hope there will be an American participation in that."
But Serbian Foreign Minister Vuk Draskovic warned against an independent Kosovo.
"The main objective must be security and stability," he said. "There will be no freedom, no security and stability in Europe if we keep some parts of Europe far away from security and stability. We mustn't ignore the issue of Kosovo. The problem is not solved."
Draskovic said he was participating here as "a warning that plans of Kosovo's independence are very very dangerous.
"The boundaries of a province, Kosovo, could not be changed, while borders of an internationally recognized state could be changed. Separatists all over the world are watching now."
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48 comments:
arianit. If they turn in Mladic, they will keep Kosovo. Be sure.
I don't understand this guy. He is upset at Serbia for not gladly and happily letting go of its Holy Land.
You know you are DELUSIONALwhen you believe that shit hole may still have a chance at keeping Republic Kosova.
Keep dreaming Shka!
That 'shit hole' and the other supposed shit hole nations of the former Yugoslavia were responsible for pumping millions of dollars into Kosovo since the 1970s in order to try to turn Kosovo around economically.
Admittedly the corrupt Communist Party leadership of Kosovo (Serbs, Montenegrians and Albanians) used these funds to line their own pockets but still the money came from Slovenia, Croatia, Vojvodina and Serbia. (If anybody wants to dispute this I do have the statistics).
What is very sad is the way that for so many (young???) people history when talking about Kosovo begins from 1989.
On the Mladic issue. Good riddance. I wish that Mladic was gone yesterday. In fact I wish that Mladic hadnt been born at all.
Draskovic's point on consistency is valid, even if I dont expect supporters of an independent Kosova to respect it. Its the way nation states work. When one lot are granted something then others start to queue up and demand the same.
"What is very sad is the way that for so many (young???) people history when talking about Kosovo begins from 1989."
Why don't you look at what happened in history from the '80s, or are you that blind old man?
'Why don't you look at what happened in history from the '80s, or are you that blind old man? '
If you'd care to make a specific point then I'd be happy to answer it independence for Kosova.
Personally I prefer a starting point of when SFRJ was set up - one of the main reasons is that we (reasonable people, I dont expect unreasonable people to want to agree) can agree on many issues from 1945 without gettting bogged down in ancient history.
Let me point an example out to you (and to anybody else reading this) about how contentious dates are. You say start from 80's.
Well thats a good date as any really.
But why not lets look at Kosovo from 2000? What kind of picture do you think that would paint? I expect you would not be keen to do that - and as a matter of fact I would agree with you, it would be completely unfair to look at Kosovo only from 2000.
But hey lets take the economic issue from the 1980's because, again this isnt a point anybody can find disagreement on since they are facts.
The fact is that from 1981-1985 Kosovo was the highest beneficiary of Yugoslav federal funds (FARDUK). Kosovo gained 42.6 percent of the total budget.
Slovenia, Croatia, Vojvodina and Serbia in that order were net contributors to the fund. The other republics took the rest of FARDUK money.
FARDUK distribution from 1986-1990 was pretty similar with Kosovo as the highest beneficiary. However, in Jan 1990 the Slovenes said they wanted to cut their budget contribution to FARDUK by half.
And the rest as we know is history. I know everybody is obsessed with ethnic explanations of the collapse of Yugoslavia and supposed ancient hatreds but economics, yes economics played a crucial part.
arianit choose to believe what you want but those statistics I quoted are facts.
And dont bother making things up either. As I said the most economically developed Republics in order were Slovenia, Croatia, Vojvodina (reigon) and Serbia.
They contributed funds the FARDUK and Kosovo was the net recepient.
This is clear and I didnt say that Serbia developed Kosovo - that was you own statement.
Like I said people prefer ethnic theories and banging on about myths and want to find things to disagree upon. Sad.
bg anon,
You completely avoided the issue, yes in Yugoslavia days Serbia was something, but it is the "shit-hole" today. I don't know the statistics of Yugolavic activities but I know Kosova had no say in anything, and I know for sure it was being robbed. Trepça mines for example. If Kosova was aided then how come it isn't apparent today. If 42% of yugoslavic funds went to Kosova, where at? Maybe funding "supi" which came in handy decades later to practice genocide on poor innocent people. But still, Serbia is right now the shit-hole of Serbia.
Let's look at Kosova after 1999. Most of the roads fixed because of the Chetniks driving tanks, 99% of mines removed (because of Chetniks), 200,000 repaired (because of Chetniks), Mosques repaired (because of Chetniks), etc. Get the point? We pay serbs every month for not paying any type of bills and yet they are they first hoes to bitch about a little electricity shortage, those poor poor bitches. Serbs are the most well treated minority in europe, again those poor poor bitches. They create illegal structures and perform on terrorist activities, like "parallel structures", they don't get arrested. Those poor poor bitches. Yet there are Kosovar families in shelters with no sort of aid, but nohhhhh the serbs they it's not enough, they want moreeee!
We'll see how much Kosova developes in 20 years, will Kosova or Serbia join first EU? I think KOSOVA!! So conclusion, Serbia is the shithole of Europe.
I don't remember you using it first. Please point me where. Since you somehow trademarked the term, then from now on I will refer to serbia as "Scum-Manifest". Now shut up.
hello,
first thing first to this nyoutlawyer.
I just wnat to remind that we are arianit race, second there are still christain albanians alive....eventhough identifying alabanians by realigion I do not see a point , however your lies are over now , and with respect to as muslim just for your info albanians even Israelies helps and likes them. So that i think explains a lot. Everyone knows how we got the msulim religion which in fact serves for your purposes rather then to albanians as a religion. But I am afraid everyone know the truth by now.
read what was said lattely
Richard Hoelbrook siad that :
" with respect to sebian friends but tragedy of Kosovo will end up with independence adding the tragedy of the years 1912 and 1389"
so I think that is for you more then enough. There is so much history between us and you. You took so much adventidge from us but nevertheless never appreciated. we helped you even during second wolrd war and look as price back what we have got form you.
speaking about albanian language as my mother tounge is a very nice language and lucky enough that I know serbian so I use that all the time for swearing and dirty word because I do not think that any other language is desined better rather then serbian language.
Just a friendly reminder for you the genesis of the word serb please explain what does that mean in too you?.Do You know ? did your chetnik predecessors told you about it? I think If I were you I would ashamed.
And I still I can't believe how narrow minded an intelectual serb can be like that and bring itself to this level and use those words ....ciki diki ..that is cigany language so I bet you are not any better . You use your freaking realigion but I think the western world understood the face behind the masks.
So you better update yoursel and open your eyes and see. And don't you think that your polititians are funny. I think they played all cards, and I guess even your girls are too cheap now in the market so those trick are not working anymore.
So I hope you back to Jesus way soon and heal yourself. In case you do not believe it I advise you go to Kosovo in American military base or British or any of them and see why they stand there for.
When Serbs run out of arguments they go back to personal attacks.
Here is an interesting fact:
FARDUK fund did indeed exist and it was designed to help Kosovo and Macedonia. It is also true that more than 75% of the funds were diverted to Macedonia at the insistence of Serbs (Initially they were supposed to be divided equally). Serbs politicians objected to funds going to Kosovo because of the disturbances created there, and the diversion of the funds was used as a way of punishment. That’s the story of this "big gift" that never came. Kosovo saw very little of this fund!
well thanks brother. If the serbs chooce personal attach I guess they can go and committ suicide because as i do not like to fight with them nor give a chance for that.It is in their gene anyway, to fight, take and invade and conqueror and never being fedup so I think God never makes mistakes he released their rope as loose as possible because they never stoped asking and compaining and playing as a victime God said ok let go as loose as possible untill they will jerk it up and trap theirself.
so Yo Brate as we used to say Bratsvo - jedinstvo you will harvest what you plant ....it goes around and comes around. So all that bull sh... that you did for Albanians you are getting back and needless to say they make you write the history with your hands in period of your time when you had the highest numbers of intellectualls and oh yeah thinking that those crap world will diggest completely and likely will be 'cradle'for the brains and i am sure yor sick intellectuals thought wow we can't ask for anything better, well albanians are muslim and that is it and theur are illeterate and your smart cookies thought well sky is the limit.
Sorry to disappoint you but no matter what you think and how low you see us albanians are very smart and we are authentic. By having you as a neighbour for so long and still I can distingusish myself from you I did never copy anything form you. Changes are done only for better, and likely there was no such thing in your culture but how to learn to bitch like your girls did and afterwards you washed their feet.
As a albanian who likes the life, peace and freedom.
and I am daughter of an eagle so I like to fly in piece and controll my territory. And I have an eagle eye so I get what I want.
speaking about Mladic well disgusting however I do not think willeffect Kosovo by all means because desicion are made already so all the talk and thingsis ...so just serbs can diggest the info and make them understand the reality!!!!
Divide and Conquer strategy on SFRJ was successfully applied.
Now what has to be done is Montenegro and Vojvodina and Sandja. Aftermath Serbia could not have the control of balkan.
gujgli many serbian famillies were saved due to the killings and masacres of other than serbian famillies. Are you livin in Medieval time or pre stone age?
gujgli: you make me laugh so hard. It is just the way you thinkit is funny.
Russia better play itself ....Ukrahine and Belorussia and then take care about serbia.
So you had Kosovo as a spiritual cardle, what did you do before you had Kosovo you had no spirits cradle ...
I've got a news Kosovo now it is not only that is Kosovo, but it is future of Europe and hope of many countries but Serbia and Russia.
There are more important issues that Europe is cocerned about it rather then Chetnik-serbs dreams,
Issues of different kind which I am not going to talk about it,since you seams to me very narrow minded and plus you are proud of Maldic and all these guys. So please do live on this world that you are and I am sure you be fine.You will be awarded with deserved price.
hahaha, this is hillarious - Serbs finally admit it that Kosova will become independent - HOWEVER don't think that they are fools, they are not loosing. Now the plan is for them to conquer the land again. Oh my God, I knew Serbs to be dumb asses but this is way too retarded. Look at their plan:
1. Loose Kosova
2. join the EU
3. Reconquer Kosova
4. Destabilize the international community
5. live forever in peace.
I don't think they actually realize what joining the EU means. E stands for EUROPE btw.
Albanians kicked you out in an attempt to taste freedom... now that they have tasted it... they will kick you out of Europe if need be.
When referring to history one should use some decency to refer to a time that makes sense analyzing the events after that point. If everyone starts looking at history from the point when they were the greatest power in the region then their consequent views are flawed.
In my mind history starts from the point that we have some information about the people living in a certain region. In the Balkans for example there is evidence of Illyrians' existence since 2000 B.C.E. Since Albanians are the only known descendants of Illyrians, no matter what happened afterward, they should rule the land their ancestors had. This would include most of SE and C Europe. Now due to our generosity, Slavic ppl who should up in the area about 2800 years later, own most of that land and Albanians have never attempted to re-conquer it. However, trying to eliminate the Albanian race out of their remaining pieces of land is not only inhumane but morally unjust.
On the other hand, if we decide to rule out any historic fact, then we are left with the present situation. The present facts are as following:
1. 95% of the population of Kosova is Albanian
2. They want to rule themselves
3. Under international law majority's views are adopted.
Conclusion: Serbia should primarely focus in improving the lives of Serbs in Serbia, and let other countries deal with their own problems.
Peace
I am glad you could not refute any other argument I made.
your ignorance keeps on growing when you say that Albanians did not kick serbs out of Kosova. it was because of Albanian's genuity that NATO intervened, due to our lobby that the US supported us and so on and on. As long we get to our end, the means don't matter.
I never said that we kicked you out militarily, which is another source of embarrasment for your country. While your guys had in their belts hundreds of airplanes and thousands of tanks (which you stole from FRY) we had kallashnikovs and a lot of brain, which you obviosuly lack.
gujgli. I dont think that Mladic conducted war in a civilised manner.
You might reply that war isnt civilised and yes thats true. Its also true that ever single war thats ever taken place there have been attrocities. We could mention Vietnam, Greneda, Korea, Germany (by Germany and against Germany), Russia. There are so many.
So ok let Mladic go to the Hague and use this as his defence. He can argue that he wasnt any worse than some other leaders in history. I would say that he could have been much better. Im not a soldier but I would like to think that I would never tolerate attacking civilians or civilian installations. The siege is Sarajevo is very hard to justify. Even worse, when those conducting the siege never even tried to take the town. Imagine, what is the point of bombing the crap out of that town if its not even a war aim.
Forget about ethnic sides - that was not moral.
I dont know if Mladics conduct saved other Serbs. It could also be the opposite. A hard policy that he used tends to generate hard policy on Serbian civilians too.
None of what I write here above exonarates any of the other groups that took part in the Yugoslav wars - they all comitted war crimes too.
Republika Srpska survived of course but at what cost. Was it worth it? And what about Serbs who lived in the federation? Was the price of an ethnic Serb state worth making all those living outside the ethnic Serb state (in Sarajevo, Mostar etc etc) second class citizens.
Serious questions.
Independence for Kosova you can hardly call name calling 'an issue' can you?
If you dont know about Yugoslav activities and the federal budget and FARDUK I suggest you get yourself educated on the subject. Otherwise how can talk with any authority about Kosovo 1945 - 1990?
How can you know whether Kosovo was robbed or not. For heavens sake at least examine the statistics (you dont have to believe me but there are books and official documents on the subject) and then make a judgement as to whether you think Kosovo was robbed or not.
But generally I agree ordinary people living in Kosovo didnt see much of the FARDUK funds. In my opinion this was because the corrupt Communist leadership of Kosovo used the funds for their own profit. That Kosovo leadership was of mixed ethnic background. In other words they were all at it Kosovo Serb, Albanian, Montenegrian Communist party officials all involved in corruption together.
If you want an honest opinion (and Im sorry to say Im one of the few who is being totally honest and open with my opinion here at the moment) I will not be sorry to see Kosovo gain independence - from an economic point of view.
You can call Serbia all the names you want but amongst other things I conduct economic analysis. In short this means that I realise that Serbian cant afford Kosovo. Im sorry to say that and wish it wasnt true.
As for your comment about Serbs in Kosovo having better human rights than in the rest of Europe - well that kind of statement I think is as embarassing to moderate Albanians as it is untrue.
Balkan Update of course FARDUK existed. I wouldnt have invented it and Im glad you checked but disapointed you didnt realise it existed until now :( You do realise that the K in FARDUK refers to Kosovo!!! Yes specially created with Kosovo in mind.
The facts you mention with FARDUK do not sound right at all. I have a lot more information on FARDUK (from non Serbian sources) if you are interested.
Where did you get the idea that 75 percent of funds were diverted to Macedonia? There is something you are forgetting here - part of Kosovo's leadership were Serbs. Why would Serbs argue that money should go into Macedonian pockets instead of at their own control. Sources please.
arianit US was sending aid to Serbia directly? WHAT? Do you mean that the US was sending aid to Yugoslavia?
Again - sources please.
How about a little more honesty and less name calling people?
"well that kind of statement I think is as embarassing to moderate Albanians as it is untrue."
It is true. You just prefer to think of Kosova as the place where only serbs have hard life, if you forgott I think it was something like up to 50% of Kosovar/Kosovan population live off less then 2 Euros a day. Except for the serbs who get $150 from our taxes and another $150 from serbia. Need I say more?
You got something against name calling, I don't see you or any serb respecting Kosova or it's people, I see no reason to start respecting people who support genocide, and mass killings.
I can't find anything about FARDUK or F.A.R.D.U.K!
gugjgi, you are truly a sad individual. As neighbors we have to stop this hate and all this Natzi love we got for each other and shape up. The fact that you consider him a hero is very very sad. Mladic's action, and yet you consider him a hero. You know Serb there are something called WAR RULES, but I'm sure serbia or its people haven't heard about.
Serbia is a shame to all!
Bytheway it's this kind of mentality that terrorists and mass murders use. But still I'm not surprised.
Remember Shqiptar, Serbia is the most democratic country in Europe!
NYoutlawyer about communistic albania, they were ready for any aggression from ex-Yu or greece.
NYoutlawyer sto se tice komunisticke albanije ona je bila spremna za spaki napad koji bi mogao doci od strane ex-Yu ili grcke.
Independence for Kosova look harder for FARDUK. The internet age dawned in this part of the world after FARDUK ceased to existed so there isnt much on the net.
But if you go to Pristina library or if you are not in Kosovo, go to a large library in the US and look for official documents. You will find them.
And why do you make things up about how you think I believe. I KNOW that life is hard in Kosovo for people of all ethnic groups. But I also know that it is harder for non Albanians (as I think you also know even if dont want to admit it).
I honestly didnt realise that there are taxes in Kosovo. I was under the impression that VAT still hasnt been imposed.
I find name calling childish and a waste of time that should be spent arguing serious points. Anybody can trade insults but only smart people can argue issues.
And truly your obsession with Serbia next to my tone and arguments, Independence for Kosova, is beginning to sound like an inferiority complex.
gujgli
I agree they didnt conduct war in a civilised manner either. But dont you see that doesnt make me guilty of double standards. Its the opposite. My standard is to be against war crimes and war criminals.
The double standard is that war crimes committed by one side are somehow acceptible and the other unacceptible.
Yes, its another argument that you mentioned. People like my live in Serbia and we should not be held to ransom by individuals - regardless of how strongly supportive some feel of them. In Serbia it is a minority who feels supportive of Mladic these days. You will see if / when Mladic is arrested / found / killed that there are few protests.
Again you are arguing with the wrong person about morality. Your argument is with those who conduct war by killing civilians (yes NATO as well). I am against killing civilians - therefore you can assume immediately that I am against NATO targetting passenger trains, markets, civilian convoys, civilian television stations, and any other attrocity that you remember.
Again I agree if international justice is applied it must be applied to every person in every nation. There are no free passes if you are American or a 'friend of America'.
I dont know where you got that 100,000 Serbs dead in Bosnia statistic from. Its the first time I've heard it. Unless you are combining the total of all of those Serbs who died in the former Yugoslav war. It would be a stretch to say they all died for Republika Sprska - a very big stretch.
I dont think you heard my point. My point is that there are many Serbs who lived outside todays border of Republica Srpksa in the Bosnian federation. They are paying the price and have the status of second class citizens. The rest are living as refugees. That is some of the of the price paid for Republika Srpska.
Kristian could you give me an example of how Belgrade did not want Kosovo to prosper after the 1981 nationalist awakening?
I have detailed information on this, on how Republics / provinces voted on political / national issues including FARDUK.
But like I stated (thanks for agreeing) corruption meant that ordinary people in Kosovo didnt see much of that money. Yes the Communist system was corrupt. Party officials benefitted and then party members, the breadcrumbs were tossed to the masses after that.
Its quite likely we have similar books on the subject and a discussion on this may prove helpful to those who are seriously interested in Kosovo rather than those who see this more like a zero sum football match between Serbs and Albanians.
Pristina, 2 May 2006 (Kosovapress) Time 12:48
After more then seven years since ending the war, Kosova chief administrator, Soren Jensen Petersen, signed Law for categories came from war, concretely hero families, invalids and veterans of Kosova Liberation Army (KLA).
"Its quite likely we have similar books on the subject and a discussion on this may prove helpful to those who are seriously interested in Kosovo rather than those who see this more like a zero sum football match between Serbs and Albanians."
The discussion you are trying to engage is at least 17 years to late. In 1989 serbs put all their eggs in one basket and removed Kosova's autonomy. From that date the game was on. You lost. We all must move on or make a few more wars. The choices are clear. The most important issue left is whethter serbia and Kosova will be in a perpetual war or relative peace.
Anon the discussion I am trying to engage is never too late.
I think you sense my intentions - ie that it is possible for the people of Kosovo (Serbs, Albanians, Roma and others) to find common issues that they can agree upon.
Instead, sadly as we see here, people are actively trying to find issues that divide them. They try to find excuses to avoid discussing things that unite them.
The choices are anything but clear. The questions should be for example not whether Kosovo should have independence, its what kind of Kosovo its citizens can expect.
What kind of living standard?
What are the prospects for employment and the future?
Will people of all ethnic groups be able to move about without feeling threatened?
These are more important issues than flags, anthems and ancient blood and land theory.
If you are trying to persuade me that monoethnicism, ethnic states, flags, national anthems, jinogistic patriotism is better than multiethnicism, democratic states and human rights, full employment, good education system, good health care system then you will fail.
That is the real question. These are the real issues that divide people.
"If you are trying to persuade me that monoethnicism, ethnic states, flags, national anthems, jinogistic patriotism is better than multiethnicism, democratic states and human rights, full employment, good education system, good health care system then you will fail."
It was not the intention or the substance of what I wrote to presuade you on the monoethnic state idea. The whole substance of what you wrote about FARDUK or some other economic discussion is too late. Since we have gone through some conflict which was anything but civilized on the serb part. Yes, I did omitt the albanian part even though you claim we in some way threatened the whole world based on the fact that majority of albanians are muslim. And serbia was somehow trying to defend the world from us. I have heard every excuse in the book why serbs committed the crimes they did in Kosova. But they are just that, excuses. If we are going to talk about the future then let's. But any notion that somehow Kosova will return under serbia's rule is absurd an unfathomable for us albanians. I understand that we need to move from the culture of war which will probably happen as soon as Kosova is a sovereign state. However, serbs must accept responsibilty about what happened in Kosova. As far as economy it will progress between serbia and kosova no matter what anyone says. The deman for goods transcends politics in every culture. And people here who emphasise only the negative will find themselves in minority in no time. If we are going to discuss the future we can discuss them only on equal terms. Let the past stay the past. For us albanians past brings pain and soon pain must go away.But forget we never will.
That is just stupid. You know that thousand of Albanians live under Belgrade rule in the Presovo valley. You are just being ignorant.
I think that Kosovo is Serb land and will always be Serb land and nothing can be done about that.
What kind of living standard? Very low
What are the prospects for employment and the future? very poor
Will people of all ethnic groups be able to move about without feeling threatened? Ha Ha with terroist mudereer Ceku in charge Serbs will be ghettoized.
"That is just stupid. You know that thousand of Albanians live under Belgrade rule in the Presovo valley. You are just being ignorant.
I think that Kosovo is Serb land and will always be Serb land and nothing can be done about that."
My point exactly.
anon you are inferring that by my mentioning FARDUK the idea is to try to persuade Albanians to remain in Yugoslavia (or Serbia). At least thats what I think you mean by being too late.
Thats not my intention. Im just here to remind people of the facts of our (yes) JOINT history which was not all bad. Life in Kosovo existed before 1989, before Milosevic and it may not have been perfect but it was not some one sided story that we are being served by some people with an agenda to make Serbs look like genocidal maniacs.
I dont think its too late to remind people of that period, no. That period was (imperfect, yes) but multiethnic. And people were generally not allowed to go round killing one another on an ethnic basis. That period of peace was much longer than the period of 1989 to the present day.
And please why do you put words into my mouth. Where did I ever say that the whole world was threatened by Albanian muslums?
I dont understand why you accuse somebody innocent of saying things he has not. And it worries me like hell because if I was a Serb living in Kosovo today, no doubt you would think the same thing about me - which is the sort of attitude which would pressure me to leave my home. There is a name for that which we both know.
I cant speak for Serbia but we can see positive signs. For example those poor relatives of those killed (who are used here by some at this blog like goals in a football or soccer match much to my disgust) finally have some peace.
The disgraceful espisode of reburied Kosovo Albanian bodies in Serbia - the bodies have been / are being returned. Better still finally those responsible are being punished. You think I want scum like those who murdered those civilians walking the same streets as me and my family? No, I want them in jail. This is a feeling we must share.
I also know that it isnt easy in Kosovo Albanian communities where similar people are walking the streets and ordinary Albanians are afraid of them. That is our joint interest. Those people endanger all of us - particularly in peacetime. They dont stop killing in peace. Those supposed 'war heros' continue killing until the forces of law / rule of democracy can arrest and imprison them. Sadly, if they metamorphasise into politicians, some think they will never have to answer for their crimes.
Look at what happened in Serbia to Zoran Djindjic. Look at the people who killed the elected Prime Minister of Serbia. Is it any surprise that these were many of the same people who fought in the wars against Croats, Albanians and so on? Dont think that cant happen in Kosovo as well. I havent seen one yet but sometime soon a visionary Kosovo Albanian politician will appear and dont be surprised if some Kosovo Albanian warlord will want to kill him. It could be one of the very same warlords that Kosovo Albanians currently see as a hero.
I want the culture of war in Kosovo to end. Again normal people will agree on this. But I have to say Im not optimistic. I say its not independence, flags or anthems that will change things. Frankly I wonder at the lack of success of the internationals in Kosovo so far. And I also wonder how much worse the anti Serb violence would have been if they had not been there 2 years ago. That last point cant makes the Kosovo Albanian argument that 'as soon as independence is granted then things will be fine' look optimistic at best. At worst the view looks hopelessly misguided.
Yes I know Albanians wont accept a return to 1974 or even Republic status but there has to be a way to guarantee the safety of the people of Kosovo. No, I dont have a good solution to propose. :(
Kristian as you can see I very much believe in working together. Although lets not abandon reality for a fantasy world. Its easy for me to sit here in my Belgrade flat advocating peace. My family hasnt been killed or been ethnically cleansed.
Kristian IMO opinion you are wasting time on arguing ownership of Kosovo. By doing so you are accepting the premise that land does belong to one ethnic group or another. Land existed long before nation states did which as Im sure you know are a relatively recent invention. Land doesnt really belong to anybody and actually I think we all know that. We all die sooner or later and land remains.
One must appreciate Serbian and Albanian history in Kosovo but 'this land is ours, not yours' game is pure childishness and almost always accompanied by some ancient historical ethnic roots theory by some quasi expert who wants to prove that his 'tribe' was there first.
nyoutlawer: haha you Moron
"If albania was not a HORRIBLE communist nation under the rule of a HORRIBLE communist tyrrant, we would not be having a Kosovo crisis right now. albanians escaped from albania, it was so bad there, and came to nearby kosovo for shelter. it is that simple. now they want independence from a sovereign nation that gave them aid for decades. are albanian kosovars looking for a different hand to fill nottheir begging?"
Wow hahaha:-) discovery of the 21st centure why don't compete for Nobel Price for this discovery hahaha,...in your dreams. Everyone know the truth but I can't believe you are such a big layer and on top of everything you hear yourself ONLY and feed up your brains likely only with your lies.
I am sorry but nobody will by this lies anymore and this scik opinoins of your.
And histori does exsist before you and me and it is writen already so why don't you update yourself and forget those Chetnik lies man.
I am so disapointed that after all this what happend so far and you still do not understand and never get civilized at this maner.
Well I stick to the saying " crow do not make doves" so likely 'some things never change eh'.
And you have to understand once and for ever that we are autochthon in our land in Ballkan.
It is so unfortunate to have a neighbor like you. And it is so said for entire society that these crimals exist.
Turn on the God's way and open your heart and brain and have mercy and respect for all innocent people that died.In the end we are all human and we have to have respect for each other and as well live in peace and except the reality and quit living on bad dreams.
nyoutlawyer:Moron better
How about Velika Serbia -Greater Serbia ..with and without Kosovo what do you think is it growing more...haha or perhaps Blooming lattely !!!
For the sake of being strong and beloved form everyone See if you can keep Montegro close or else ...you know what I mean.
I guess they realised too that you are such a pain on the but and likely only troubles being together with you. Go and ask any Slovenian person about serb they hate the fact that once we have been all together.If I were you I would be ashamed to call myself as a SERB and you know very well what is the genesis of the word serb so .... any more comments on this?
Dude, why are you posting the same article in every discussion? I already told in another discussion that we are dealing here with nut case. Are you nuts too?
nylawyer:
hahaha you are going nuts no doubt.
I do not buy these lies anyway and nobody does.
I do not care what does cite a crazy person that has been in jail for decades.
Wow this is one article,you have thousands of articles and you excersised many propagandas for many... how many years and they proven to be lies. So ok one more from guys like you ...Big deal!
bg anon is a damn communist on top of being a Serb, dude your life must really suck.
to the person suggesting that Serb should kill themselves, that is a terrible idea. . . I rather them live and see an Independent Albanian-ran Kosovo.
nyoutlawyer you can go kill yourself because you are so boring and predictable
To the anonymous guy who thinks seeking compromise is Communist philosophy.
You obviously havent heard of Goli Otok have you?
Is there anybody with a more intelligent comment to make?
Guess its not easy to debate with somebody who is actually taking the debate further than name calling is it?
Kristian you are arguing that point you said 'no one can say with 100 percent certainty who owned the lands'.
In other words you are accepting the premise that somebody does own the land. Otherwise your response would be for example that land cannot be owned so the point on who claims what is irrelevant.
Thus I dont agree that the Turks owned the land either. At one time they controlled it militarily. But like I say land cant really ever be owned.
Historians generalise, exaggerate, work for governments / interest groups, lie, are economical with the truth. I agree. My best friend is a historian and he would tell you this himself.
Kristian do you have an explanation as to why so many pepole who live in the west - particularly the US but also in Europe has such a jaudiced and one sided, bitter view of events in the Balkans.
Look at it this way. 25 percent of people living in Serbia have regular access to the internet. In Kosovo its half that.
I cant sense any participants who live in Serbia / MG and I think the same is true for Albanians.
Why is it then that it takes somebody like me who actually chooses to live in the region to try to talk sense into those who are living thousands of miles away?
And who are all these people who are deliberately trying to poison relations between Serbs and Albanians to an even worse degree than they already are?
bg anon don't bother how much peoples in Kosova use internet
check only you national television does the RTS transmits any footage of common peoples about their problems and what do they think about Kosova.
RTK does goes to the Serbian villages and asks local residents to speak freely about in what conditions are they living.
If you were not never in Kosova after the war it is not my fault that you don't have clear picture of Kosova since the RTS doesn't allows clear infos from Kosova. One example is about electricity that the serbian governement is telling allways that only the serbian minority on Kosova are facing power cuts. Well if they payed in time their debts to KEK then they wouldn't be matter of consideration to face power cuts.
What's more important is that www.b92.net is most respectful TV station in Serbia because even that is located and owned by Serbians that do represent different points of views not only the government one.
gujgui
I'm aware what double standards are. Im telling you I dont practice them, so blame for double standards can not be laid in my direction.
But as you suspect I agree - and in fact now that people know my position on double standards they can suspect or almost know my position(s) in advance. They are based on a common principle applying to all sides. As I was saying I agree all war criminals should be brought to book and this has not been done.
But I will also say this. Due to the fact that Serbs were the most numerous population living in the former Yugoslavia it also stands to reason that they will also have the most war criminals (and also the most moderates). Therefore some Serbs and Mg's who are aruging that should be an equal amount of Serbs, Croats and Bosnians, Albanians at the Hague are not being logical. But yes sadly there are a number of Kosovo Albanian warlords who should be brought to the Hague. I wont say here that they are guilty before they are judged but they should face trial.
Mind you I will now completely contradict myself with this. There are a disproportionate amount of Montenegrians at the Hague. Seriously there are so many of them are Montenegrian its unbelievable and most of them hid in Serbia.
500,000 people most certainly did not attend the Milosevic funeral. Unlike most who speculate on the figures I was there and there was between 80,000 to 120,000. But if you added the people who visited Pozarevac too it could move up to 250,000. But heres something that might confuse those that dont know the culture. Would you care to guess how many of those who attended the Milosevic funeral also attended Tito's funeral in 1980? Oh yeah many of the same schizophrenic people. Imagine, Tito a Yugoslav, brotherhood, unity etc and then Milosevic who came to the helm of a grand proud country and left the country in a pathetic and pitiful state with reduced borders and enemies greedily eyeing the scraps.
And I tell you something else, I bet that many of those who attended Rugova's funeral also attended Tito's. Same s//t different package but I know the culture and people here. Even when they behave in a contradictory way.
I dont agree that its absurd to talk about the rights of Serbs living in the Federation. Unless you are living in such a situation you dont have the right to call that absurd.
But I do appreciate you correcting your figure for killed Serbs in Bosnia.
ahmet actually I have cable so I dont need to rely on RTS and as you can see I speak very good English so its likely I have access to more information than you think.
You also dont even know what line of work Im in. And you assume that I havent been in Kosovo. I wonder why, could that be because you dont think I would have freedom of movement in Kosovo. You would be right. I am limited to visiting Mitrovica and Pristina.
My German collegue isnt though and he's been throughout Kosovo and has given me on the ground reports on whats happening in the Serbian and Roma ghettos. Its a miserable situation. I know its not that much better in poorer Albanian communities either.
If you truly do know about the electricity situation in Kosovo then you would know that in fact most of Kosovo's citizens still dont pay electricity bills. I dont like to politicize this issue but it seems very stupid indeed to do something that will be interpreted as ethnic. And KEK and the internationals knew that damn well.
Cut a few people off as example to get others to pay (including Albanians) but entire Serbian communities. What kind of stupidity is that?
Yes, B92 is a pretty good media station. Unfortunately it is going in the wrong direction - commercialisation, American trash soaps etc. It used to have excellent documentaries, exploring the past, investigative journalism.
I welcome the fact that some Albanians recognise B92 as a good example. I hope there is something similar for Kosovo Albanians.
But gujgli is right on the ownership issue. 48 percent (minority share) is owned by the media development fund. The rest is onwed on the sort of socialist principle of the old days - those who work there longest have shares. Veran M, Sasa M, etc etc.
Fox recently expressed an interest in buying the station. I hope they dont or they will kill it.
gujgli the funds from the US and other NGO's have now dried up. This is the main reason for the increasing commercialisation of B92. Trust me I know whats going on there.
Also you need to make a distinction between B92 and the NGO view. Back in 2002 there was a big bust up between B92, Vreme and other media on one side and the NGO's on the other. The NGO's were unhappy that B92 was not radical enough. You can read about this on the Helsink site which has it all translated into English. I think its in the Facing the past section.
It makes interesting reading I promise you.
Why suspected war criminals are not in the Hague is not my problem. Ratko Mladic is my problem since people think he's in Serbia. But if you insist again, yes double standards, yes Serbia (Serbs) have been punished more than they deserve but hell are you telling me they dont deserve some punishment? Is that what you are saying?
gujgli you have a generalised view of B92 that comes through lack of knowledge.
B92 could have easily cut off the Miloseivc trial. RTS did didnt it?
The experts on B92 that came like Tapuskovic, Toma Fila, lots of them with a variety of opinions. Thats good.
Again I point you in the direction of the Helsinki site in Serbia if you want to read about the confrontation between the NGO's in Serbia and the media. It is interesting.
Then there are NGO's such as VERITAS.
I can see that you prefer a black and white viewpoint (it easier on a person) but the problem is that the world isnt black and white.
I have been to Banja Luka and I've also been to Sarajevo. Perhaps it is you that should visit Sarajevo and Belgrade and tell Serbian refugees in Belgrade or the Serbs of Sarajevo that you think that republika sprksa was a price worth paying.
I prefer multiculturalism to monoculturalism in Kosovo and in Bosnia.
gujgli
Really I dont see myself as standing one side of the river at all.
In fact if you want to use that kind of analogy I see myself as standing in the river trying to persuade people either side of me to not be afraid of crossing the bridge.
But yes there will be some topics that you and I agree upon.
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