Tuesday, November 15, 2005

Serbia Set To Reject Kosovo Independence At Talks Next Month

BELGRADE (AP)--The Serbian government Tuesday unanimously adopted a resolution that rejects independence for Kosovo ahead of U.N.-mediated talks starting next month on the future of the breakaway province.

The text of the platform - drafted as a 10-point resolution - calls for unequivocal support for a compromise on Kosovo's future status yet warns that the province's "territory is an inalienable part" of Serbia and that "any imposed solution will be considered illegitimate and unacceptable" by Belgrade.

"The future status of Kosovo can only be defined within the norms and standards of the United Nations and other international organizations, at the same time fully respecting...the constitution of Serbia," the draft reads.

The resolution was posted on the government Web site after the Cabinet adopted it Tuesday. It also needs the approval of the Serbian parliament, tentatively set to meet over the weekend.

In Moscow Tuesday, Serbia's President Boris Tadic said that conflict could erupt if Kosovo's Albanians seek an independent state.

"I am absolutely against destabilization of the Balkan peninsula," Tadic said at the start of a Kremlin meeting with President Vladimir Putin during a three- day visit to Russia.

The draft leaves open the possibility that a national referendum be held in Serbia to approve the outcome of the U.N.-mediated talks with independence- seeking Kosovo Albanians.

Those negotiations are expected to start in December and end within a year.

The resolution offers Kosovo "essential" political and judicial autonomy and highlights that the Belgrade government is "determined that a concrete, reasonable, long-term and stable solution be found for Kosovo, taking into full consideration the legitimate interests of the (ethnic) Albanians in the province."

The draft also urged "direct negotiations" between the Serb side and the Kosovo Albanians.

Kosovo, considered by the Serbs to be the cradle of their statehood and religion, has been run by the U.N. since 1999, when North Atlantic Treaty Organization bombing halted a Serb crackdown on separatist ethnic Albanians.

The U.N. envoy to mediate talks on Kosovo's future, Finland's former President Martti Ahtisaari, was expected to visit Kosovo and Belgrade later this month and move to Vienna in December to start the negotiations.

The format of the talks still has to be determined but Ahtisaari, appointed by U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, faces a difficult task with the two sides diametrically opposed - Kosovo's ethnic Albanians insisting on full independence while Belgrade contending this would constitute "unlawful secession." On the Web site: www.srbija.sr.gov.yu

(END) Dow Jones Newswires


arianit said...

Balkans won't be destabilized unless Serbia starts another war, and Balkans won't be pacified until Kosova too fulfills its UN-given right to escape colonial rule.

Mir said...

As a Serbian-Yugoslavian I have been following this blog for some time now and enjoy reading it to see what the people on the other side of the border think. However this is a lose/lose situation. If Serbia loses Kosovo, there is a big possibility of bloodshed. If Kosovo remains a part of Serbia, there is also a chance of bloodshed.

Kosovo is not about Serbia to me. It's not about the land, or the people. None of those are important to me. It's about the history. The Turkish armies met at Kosovo with the Serbian army (along with many foreign royalties, some evidence suggests possibly an Albanian prince was there to help fight the Turks)

Kosovo represents an old world where religion was so powerful it could create battles like this. It was the Eastern European Serbian-led Christians against the Muslim Ottoman Turks. It showed how much both sides were willing to give up for such an abstract concept like "God". Kosovo cannot be simply turned into another country created by America's "hammer of Westernization".

Kosovo is a holy place that should be treated as one. This is where I draw my final point. If it was my choice Kosovo would indeed GET independence but not in the way most of you expect. I would negotiate to have Kosovo turned into a country much like the Vatican City. It is a great symbol of old hate dying in a new-aged Europe.

With all the recent hatred and riots in France, it's obvious Muslims simply do not feel welcomed in Europe. They feel they do not have any communities to join. Kosovo however is a Muslim and Christian holy site due to the battle of the two armies. It truly would be a monument in all of human history, that we were able to create something that could appease both sides and stop violence. Making a war-torn piece of land into a divine holy region for TWO religions would truly lead the entire world to a decrease in violence and hatred. Grand Churches and Mosques could be built in Kosovo and it would become a great tourism country and financially/culturally rich. This is the only possible "win" scenario for both sides that I can see.

There is no point at all to start another war. War in itself is a bastardization now of what war once was. War was essentially the END of a problem or disagreement. With the wars lately across the world like Vietnam, Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo, it is getting harder and harder to see just what the objectives are of the wars. It's quite simple. Wars simply don't "WIN" anything anymore, they just cause more problems. It's time to end this fake "war" and finally look forward to peace.

Well my English is a bit poor so I can't fully explain what I am trying to say but I hope both Serbians and Albanians can find this post peaceful and reasonable. However, it is just my opinion so there is nothing that prevents you from objecting it.


Visit Prishtina said...

WOW! I am deeply shocked. How are we going to enjoy our freedom (independence is freedom) if Serbia will not accept it?

To Mitar:

Any message of peace and non-violence is welcomed by the Kosovar society. We are not warmongers. However peaceful your intentions are, Mitar, you must understand that the majority of your people (Serbs-Yugoslavs), including the Serbian government, do not agree with you. The majority of your people want us either killed or expelled, and the world has seen enough of it to be convienced.

As a Kosovar Albanian, I would expect a Serb with peaceful and non-militant intentions to apologise for all the crimes that have been done on their behalf. I also do not agree with you about the fact that "Kosova is not about the people". I think Kosova, and every other issue in the world, is about the people, about the ordinary citizens and their lives.

Kosovars do not have a problem with the churches (the physical buildings), but we do have a problem with the Serbian Orthodox Church (SPC) who has been speading hate and lies.

If we are to solve this, we must address the real issues. Sweet-talking can only get us so far.

Greeting from Prishtina!

Prince of Albania said...

Mitar, thanks for your good intentions but the idea of turning Kosovo into some sort of Theocratic religious entity is extremely absurd.
The majority of the population of Kosovo are Albanians. Even though officially mostly Muslim, Albanians are largely secular and non religious.
As such turning Kosovo into some sort of inter faith shrine is sensless. Further more it goes directly against the wishes of the overwhelming majority of the population that lives there.
I am a firm beliver in a peoples right to self determination.
I think the people of Kosovo should decide through a democratic referendum what their future should be.
Anything less is immoral!
Sincerely, Prince of Albania!

Mir said...

Well there is something you need to understand, and that is that in Serbia the Albanians are largely gypsies or refugees of some kind. They give off a bad image because they can't find jobs and they live on the streets. Usually the kids won't go to school so they can help make some money or find food.

Serbia simply cannot (maybe dosen't know how to) integrate people with that lifestyle into Serbia. So basically they always stay on the streets because no one has time for them which is bad. But it's the way it is. This is what causes much of the Serbian stereotype against Albania.

These ridicilous stereotypes happen on both sides because of economic and cultural situations and it's just getting ridiculous. It's an emberassment to the Balkans, Europe, and Earth, that this situation can't be resolved without the threat of violence due to such stupidly placed hate. Im not here to say Serbians OR Albanians are right/wrong.

The bottom line is that there HAS to be a peaceful solution that will somehow make both sides feel as if they have achieved what they need or there will be blood spilled. It all has to start with a repair of the nationalistic/overly-patriotic mindset that seems to be a disease in the Balkans.

Again these are just my opinions.


arianit said...

What's wrong with being a gypsy? Get rid of your racist biases and persuade your government to educate/help those on the street whatever they are. Second of all, you are either a gypsy (roma) or an albanian, I've never heard of a community of Albanian-Gypsies. Third, I would rather see Kosova being a Switzerland than a Vatican.

Kosovar2006 said...
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Kosovar2006 said...

I agree with Kosova being a Switzerland or Dubai or Hong Kong, somewhere where business will flourish standards of life raised to the highest of levels, rather then Vatican.

I can't understand since when Serbians have become this brave. Did Putin the devil whisper something on their ears.

I think albanians are prepared for any situation.

We have got the music and places where to celebrate our independence Europe AND the entire Diasopora will be on fire with the parties that albanins will throw ( ohh im so looking forward to them)

If Serbia descides to be stupid and make silly mistake by trying to enter Kosova well Balkans will be on fire LITERALLY on fire

ivan said...

I have been reading this post for some time and I tried to understand my people as well as the people on the other side. First of all I would like to state that i am a Serb but I have had good Albanian firends. I do respect the albanian culture and I do believe that our two people can live respectfully side by side. The problem however I see is that both sides are fed by xenophobic hate. Since I live outside of Serbia, I encountered a lot of blind hate by kosovar albanians. They put a mark on my forehead just because i am a serb. The ones that actually wanted to talk to me, told me that our two people will never be able to leave in peace. I aksed them what will happen to those 200 thousand serbs that refugeed from Kosovo, they all told me that they better not come back. My question is why? But part of this answer i get from reading your comments like "serbs better apologize for all the crimes they did to us". I agree, and as a Serb I do apologize, and I am ashamed what individuals did in the name of my country and culture. But what do we get from your side? Dont tell me Kosovo albenians always treated Serbs the right way? Who did destroy the Orthodox churches? I never heard an apology for anything from anybody from "your" side.

My personal opinion is that Kosovo be fairly split. We need to let the time to heal the wounds that are deep on both sides at the moment. Then a time will come when both sides will apologize for all of the crimes that we did to each other. At the end we might even be good neighbours. If Kosovo is not fairly split the conflict will continue, and it will never end. I am interested in your opinion....

Zenman said...

Indeed there is no need for blind hate. Burning few churches is insignificant compared to 10 thousand people (some members of my family) being brutally murdered, almost a million people driven out of their homes (including my family), years of pure oppression and the list of dirty laundry goes on and on.... In fact my family was expelled from their own homes in Prokuple (near Nish)at the end of 1800s. It seems that a lot of Serbs that left Kosova had their hands bathed with blood and torture. In fact I do not think Serbia or Kosova wants them in their midst. Now where people want to live is largely a matter of preference based on their language, culture, interests and so on. that is why most likely why lot of serbs prefer to live in Serbia. Now the idea of a democratic state within our territory means that freedoms are provided for everone within the boundries. Kosova has before and after contained more then 90%albanians and thus deserves to manage their own affairs. Furthemore as far as hate goes trust me it will take few generations before we can forget the horrific intentions of serbs on us. This last massacre serbs committed in our people was not the first one the history is long.

ivan said...

Zenman, I dont agree with you on your following sentance , "Now where people want to live is largely a matter of preference based on their language, culture, interests and so on. that is why most likely why lot of serbs prefer to live in Serbia.". According to your logic, then all of the albanians should have left Kosovo for Albania, because there you have your own language and culture. I understand from your comment that 200 thousand serbs should stay in serbia and they are not welcome to come back to their homes because they dont fit in the culture. Also i am trying to look at things from both angles. Yes I am sorry for everything that my people did to your. But from your comment i dont see the second angle. I still get the impression that you are blind with your hate, and you cant admit that your people brought suffer to my people as well. I am looking forward to your opinion.

thetruepatriot said...

To Mir and Ivan:
I've had enough of Kosova being called a muslim entity. It simply is not. It is simply an Albanian entity (period). Anybody with the most minimum knowledge of Balkan history would know that islam was forced upon Albanians and slavs as well by the Ottoman Turks and whats most important is that ALL Albanians know this and hence virtually 95% of us don't give a hoot about islam. Albanians are about as muslim as your average Englishman, Frenchman or German, etc and if Albanians were really muslim, they would be looking to work or live, etc in predominantly muslim countries and not predominantly christian western countries. Infact, we (Albanians) are all wanting a re-union with our family (Europe) who unfortunately infact left us cold and stranded when the Turks first invaded the Balkans but nevertheless this is a long story. We were their vanguard and unfortunately they (Europe) used us and then abandoned us. So, I am quite pissed off with Europe but I cannot hate them because they are me, my family, my bretheren, etc and I want us to rejoin them and become like them again as soon as possible. I know this will take time but it is something that all Albanians want and hence it is what will be. It is infact the Turks (Ottomans) that did the most damage to us (Albanians) first and then followed by the Serbs and other foreign invading hords, etc that followed. In short, what I trying to say is that whatever religion todays Albanians of the Balkans may or may not practice, one thing is absolute...and that is that Kosova was, is and always will be Albanian and Albanian is European. Infact, if you would really like to know...there wouldn't even be 5% of Albanians that are real practising muslim. Infact, we live the same as any other European and do you know why?...because we are European. If anything, I believe it is the Serbs whom are not European and will probably never be but it'll take too long to explain here.
And before you go and say it, NO! I am not a christian Albanian, I just know my history well enough to know how and why things are today. In short, I am simply an Albanian that wants ever so much for his nation and land to be a part of Europe and the western world again.


Kosovar2006 said...

theilirian why bring up the subject of religion. By you saying 'am not a christian Albanian' well seriously christian albanians are not that much against islam as people like yourself are. '95% of us don't give a hoot about islam' You are wrong yet again Go and look at the mosques on friday people are spilling on the street for prayers. Albanians in Macedonia are majority muslims that live by islamic morals same applies to Kosova.
Stop applying the card look at us we have been oppressed by turks religion has been put on us. Give me a break I have not been occupied by turks I have chosen to live islamic morals and many Albanians choose to do so. You forgive Europe that has split us piece by pieces. But not forgive Ottomons for giving us ISLAM.

Seriously accept that majority of albanians are Muslims and respect the religion. I am getting pissed off with your islamophobic comments on these blogs

Kosovar2006 said...
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Kosovar2006 said...

Ivan, Zenman logic is Albanians have always lived in Kosova allways. how do you suggest that we go to albania we never came from albania in first place. We lived there since the begging of time, 200 000 serbs are you crazy seriously they were never that many serbs in Kosova. By the way ivan millions of albanians were driven away from Kosova when Serbian soldiers planned to massacre them all.
You mention we never appologised for burning of churches. Our parliment did also set aside our tax money to repair and refurbish the churches.You have flattened majority of mosques in Kosova. When the riots happened in March you burned the mosque in Nish. You have not apologised for none of your crime you justtry and make excuses and give reasons why you have doneit

Serbs that have been driven away and not guilty they welcome to their homes. But Serbs like my neighbour 'Dejan' also we used to call the other neighbour 'Brko' I used to see them washing blood off their hands after their operations. I remember like today his promise 'Ja ubije svi ove shiptar' Well serbs like him that have been driven away I tell you now they will never live in peace in Kosova.

Its not blind hate its fresh wounds that I'm having flashback from. Indepence will be a medicine for most of my wounds. I will try forget sometimes in the future but never forgive.

Mir said...

Both sides HAVE to understand bad has been done by both sides. My granduncle's best friend drove through Kosovo (when it was still Tito's Yugoslavia) on a continental business trip. He was beaten, he had his genitals cut off, and was tied to a wooden post to bleed to death. Why? Because he's a Serbian? But then again Serbians have had bloodbaths against the Albanians.

These stupidities are insane and are a disease to the entire world. YOU CANNOT say "We'll have peace if the other side apologizes first." It will not work like that. This seems more and more pointless as the days go by and people become more xenophobic and hateful.

If both sides are going to be idiotic like this and poison the world then I say let them have a war and kill each other off on both sides until they can't fight any more.


ivan said...

Kosovar 2006, i have a couple of questions for you:
1) Why do you laugh about 200 thousand Serbs, and expect us to believe your numbers? Why cant you respect our facts, if you want us to respect your facts?
2)If all the Serbs that have not done any harm to the albanians are welcome to come back, why do the remaining Serbs live in isolation, and have no freedom of movement? why when ever you see Serbian registration plates, ypou throw rocks at those vehicles?
3) If according to you Kosovo albanians are so tolerant, why were the churches burnt?
4) Why did the March violance occur? You cant suspect that all of the Serbs drowned those two boys?
5) Why cant the 200 thousand Serbs come back to their property? Or is this now albanian property only because they are Serbs?
6) Did you ever ask yourself why did Milosevic come to power? Is it becuase Serbs felt safe living with Albanians? Dont forget that during Tito times you had the most advantegeous autonomy, but then you wanted more, a Republic. Why?
7) If Kosovo gets its independence, would you give the Serbs Skadarska, the area in Albania where its majority serbian?

I would be grateful if you or any commentators could answer me.

ivan said...

on more question:

if you saw your Serb neighbours swear that they will kill all of the albanians, how come you are still alive?

arianit said...

Mitar, I've never heard about your uncle, has any media reported this? Chances are that your uncle is gay and his penis was cut during some weird sexual game. The fact that he was found tied fits right into the picture. There is a case similar to this one though (is that where you got inspired) where the Serb dude complained that Albanians had stuck glass up his behind, and it turned out that he was gay. This is my perfect example for the future history books to describe the epic struggle of the Serb nation against those dirty Albanians.


1) There will be a census in 2006 that will prove the numbers. My guess is that 200,000 out of Kosova and 100,000 inside is BS. Make sure to tell your brothers to register.
2) You have a point here. Serbs are isolated and unemployed, but they can definitely do more to help themselves. There is no justice when the mob does it. So, the government in Belgrade and Serbs around Kosova must turn in the criminals that escaped jail in Mitrovica and many others; the government that orchestrated the attempted genocide must apologize unequivocally and without conditions; and Serbia should stop its threats of something similar happenning again once NATO leaves.
3) Serb Church is a nationalistic church; it was and still is (although much cunnier today) at the vanguard of Serb chauvinism. The fact that it enjoys such irreverance in Serbia makes it extremely guilty for the policies it lead and Serb people followed.
Now, churches were burnt by kids of high school age. There is even a video of the Podujeva one, to show you just that. KS-gov has apologized and offered cash to the Church to rebuild them. Unfortunately, some of the art inside of them is lost forever.
4)Right, and you can't suspect that all of France electrocuted those non-French boys in the Paris ghetto. But the democratic government in Belgrade is guilty for holding Kosova hostage still, in the name of Kosova Serbs.
5)Refer to Answer 2.
6)This question is wide open. Technically, he come to power because Serbs voted for him, and then voted again and again to help him stay there.
Actually, voices for Republic were a few and they didn't have support until tanks came into the streets. Some people might have also heard stories from granfathers who were expelled from the Nis region a century ago and they feared the same thing would happen again, which ultimately did.
7)Majority Serb Skadarska? Point that in Google Maps to me.

I'll let you figure out the post script by yourself.

Kosovar2006 said...

Well IVAN belive you me my neighbour and all Kosovar Serbs tried to kill or expel us all. I can remember when we were forced to go to albania and we were passing through serbian check points and they were throwing kid's fireworks to scare us. Btw there was all elderly women and children in our group. They would lead us to walk near trenches so they NATO would bomb.
Also in Prizren opposite sports centre they digged up a massive hole where they planned to massacre everyone left in prizren.Evidence of this plan was found in police station.
Belive you me they tried to kill us all but we fought back and they didnt succed.

Arianit thanks for helping me out here.


1) There wasn't any gesture of laughter while i was telling you my distrust in your numbers. You claim 200000out + 100000in That makes 300 thousand out of the population of 2million. well abanians are 90% majority well if you know your maths it just doesnt add up you even haven't left any piece of the pie to other minorities.

2)Serbs isolate themselfs by order of Belegrade. Believe you me Serbs that are not gulity they do walk around Prishtina and aother cities freely. Btw Kosova has got its own law on car number plates why do try and risk yourslefs by showing you have got a serbian number plate may I add number plate wasnt BG or any other serbian it PZ (well out of date) We do invite you to join and be Kosovars and not think that you will join Serbia again.

3)As my good friend arianit pointed out high school children made most of the burning. Well Kfor should have pushed them away but didn't I question their intentions?

4) March violonce unemployment low standards of living ( still better then under serbia) Provocation by serbs occuping albanian property in Mitrovica load and loads more reasons

5) Well if it was serbian property it will remain so. Look at the recent campaign of Kosovar goverment and OSCE.As i said some of them will not come back because of the crimes they have comitted may I add most of serbs have sold their houses in Kosova I know loads of cases where they don't plan coming back.

6) Well after Tito remember there wasnt albanian Slovens , Croats , Macedons wanted to break away too. Because Milosevic had the nationalist idea of expand SErbia. Also kosovar were not happy with no investment to their infrostructure The tax money was going back to serbia never coming back to People taht paid Removing of the autonomy by milosevic. Well there we go thats why we wanted republic

7)Yeah point Skadarska is it not a village come on if thats the case there will be about 30 to 40 States in a country stop being pathetic. There are more albanins in TUrkey then they are in Albania we dont claim their land Im hearing the bronx is almost majority albanian we dont claim that . We claim where it is wrightly ours

If you have more to ask Throw them but hope this has answred you questions

Visit Prishtina said...

Skadarska? What on Earth is that? Are you making up stories or what?

If any of what you are saying was true (which of course it isn't), we would have UN, OSCE, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International etc. on our backs shouting and screaming.

Ivan, if you want to have a discussion then no problem, but please no fairy tales.

OK, now please allow me to debunk some of your questions that you raised earlier:

Go to the website of the Serbian Government and see with your own eyes the figures of the Kosova population back in 1991. Here is the link click here.

There you will find that in 1991, according to Serb figures, 194.190 Serbs lived in Kosova (bearing in mind that these figures could well be inflated). In other worlds, fewer than 200.000 Serbs lived in Kosova then. The trend has been since the end of the WW2 that the number of Serbs living in Kosova was going down.

Now you do the maths.

100.000 Serbs live in Kosova today (figures from United Nations and other agencies -- not Albanian estimates). Now, how many Serbs could have left Kosova since June 1999? You tell me?

Now, let me ask you a question, and by doing so I will answer your question.

Do Kosovar Albanians have the freedom of movement north of river Ibër?

The answer is: no.

Also, please tell me what would happen if a Kosovar Albanian drove his car with Kosovar car plates north of river Ibër?

The answer is: he would be stoned.

Now, please spare me of the Jewish propaganda of throwing rocks! How can someone throw a rock? Please answer me this.

I am sick and tired of propaganda saying: children were throwing rocks. How can a child lift a rock, let alone throw it?

First of all, do you know what a rock is?

A stone, maybe.

Now, from a more legal perspective, the laws of Kosova (approved by the United Nations) require a Kosovar (Albanian, Serb, Bosnian, Turk etc.) car owner to have Kosovar car plates. If a Kosovar Albanians does not have these and gets stopped by police -- he/she gets a fine. If a Kosovar Serb does not have Kosova car plates and gets stopped by police -- he/she gets away with it? Why? Is one ethnic group privileged? The same laws should apply to everyone, right?

Nobody is trying to justify burning churches or any other buildings. However, there is one point you have to bare in mind. It was not (and it is not) a Kosovar state policy to burn churches and other buildings that belong to Serbs. These terrible acts were not done by Kosovar police or any other uniformed force of Kosova.

To the contrary, the Kosovar parliament, government and president condemned these acts and are providing funds for them to be reconstructed. Most, if not all, Serb houses burned in March 2004 have been rebuilt. Now, this does not make us good people, but at least we are trying to heal some of the wounds.

How many Kosovar Albanian houses did the Serbian government rebuilt?

The answer is: none.

Also, the Serbian Orthodox Church has signed an agreement with the Kosovar Ministry of Culture for the reconstruction of the churches that were damaged or burned during the March 2004 riots.

I have not seen a single Serbian politician apologise or pay a single cent for any of the mosques that were burned and destroyed by the Serb army, police and paramilitary.

Do you know the number of mosques that were destroyed by the Serb troops?

Why did the March violence occur?

Ivan, it is clear that you are not very familiar with what happened in March 2004.

Now, let me ask you this: why did the Kosovar Serbs block major Kosovar roads?

Following the drowning of the three Kosovar Albanian boys near Mitrovica, the Albanians there went out in the streets to require an investigation and justice. Violence erupted resulting in 6 Albanians and 2 Serbs dead.

On the other hand, Kosovar Serbs blocked the road that links Prishtina and Peja at Fushë Kosovë, Prishtina and Shkup (Skopje) at Caglavicë, and Prishtina and Gjilan at Gracanicë. Why?

There were pregnant women on their way to hospital to give birth who could not reach the hospitals because of these road blocks. There were people who were ill. There were people trying to catch their plane at Prishtina International Airport.

Of course, this kind of irresponsible behaviour from the Serbian side will lead to violence. This then created space for hardliners from both sides to spread the violence even further. The violence then erupted in Podujeva, Nish, Belgrade, and other places.

Again, you do not have a good understanding of the situation. The property that belonged to the Serbs before 1999, still belongs to the Serbs. The UN Habitat deals with these issues.

First of all, the number of Kosovar Serbs that left Kosova is far lower that the figure you use.

Second, a large number of Serbs have now sold their property. They do not wish to come back to Kosova. These properties were sold legally with Albanian, Serb and UN lawyers, so they were not forced to sell. Many Serbs have realised that the days when they were the privileged ethnic group are gone, and many are not ready to live in equal terms with the rest of the Kosovar society.

There also those Serbs that afraid to return to their property. There is no denying this. However, they property is still theirs. They owned it, and whenever these fears are gone they can come back.

How stupid one must be to think that Milosevic came to power because of Albanians, or Croats, or Slovenians.

Listen and learn. Milosevic came to power democratically. He came to power because Serbs wanted him in power. Period.

He came to power because the majority of the Serb population agreed with his nationalistic agenda, because they liked what they heard and because Serbs voted for him. End of story.

Kosovar Albanians never voted for him. Neither did the Croats or Slovenians or Macedonians.

Milosevic came to power because of his supremacist ideology, a racist ideology.

And Milosevic lost power when Serbs themselves started trying some of their own medicine. When Milosevic started beating and abusing Serbs in Belgrade did the Serbs wake up and smell the coffee. That's when they realised that he was a mad dog and got rid of him.

More importantly, Kosovar Albanians never ever wanted to be part of the former Yugoslavia. They were never asked whether they wanted to join Yugoslavia, or Albania, or be independent.

So, frankly speaking, it is not our problem whether Serbs felt safe living with the Albanians or not.

Why did Albanians want a Republic? Because we did not want to live under Serbia. Why would anyone want to live under occupation? Serbs, Macedonians and others must understand once and for all that Albanians were under occupation in former Yugoslavia. We did not want to be there in the first place. We are not a Slavic people and we did not want to leave under a Slavic country:

Jugo = Southern
Slavia = Slavic country

That's a joke. You know, you should pursue a career in comedy.

Thank you very much!

Kosovar2006 said...

Thank you Visit Prishtina for taking your time to reply IVAN. You just reflected all my views exactly as I wanted them. But didnt have the time to look over my spelling and grammar when i posted just before you did.

Well done again Brilliant comment.

illyrianboy said...

Good job, VisitPrishtina!

Let me add that the march riots were similar to the riots in France, and Los Angeles in the sense that young people were pissed off with living without a hope under UNMIK. Then when the Serbs started blocking roads, UNMIK/KFOR did nothing. When the Albanian children drowned that was just a spark.

The fact that UN cars were burnt shows that people were directing their anger against the Status quo. It is sad that many Serb houses and churches were burnt. I think that happened simply because Serbs were an easy target at the time and the youth mobs got out of control.

If you want to understand March 2004, you should read something about riots and the psychology of the masses.

Prince of Albania said...

The much touted 200,000 number has recently been debunked by EU research groups.
Using official Serbian Government Census records and estimates of the current Serbian population of Kosovo it was established that fewer than 80,000 Serbs from Kosovo are Refugees in Serbia and Montenegro.
What the Serbian officials fail to mention when they throw out the 200,000 number that, officially, over 60,000 Police, Paramilitary and Yugoslav Army Units were stationed in Kosovo during the NATO bombing. Probably more in reality. These people were not citizens of Kosovo but rather stationed or deployed occupation forces.
You can not expect Kosovo to take these people back!
That leaves approximately 60,000 to 80,000 Serbs that were actual citizens of Kosovo and another 50,000 Colonists that were moved to Kosovo from Krajina and Bosnian-Croatian parts of Bosnia.
Most of the Serb refugees from Croatia and Bosnia never wanted to come to Kosovo and do not wish to return.
So your original number of Kosovo Serb Refugees in Serbia of about 60,000 to 80,000 has the Right of Return.
Some things that have to be explained to the returnees of course is that they would be returning to a society where Albanian is the main official language. They can not expect to have the majority of the population address them in Serbian. That's simply unrealistic.
So to integrate they would have to speak Albanian. Furthermore they would have to resign to the fact that Kosovo is going to be an Independent State and not part of Serbia.
Most of them will find these things hard to swallow. Nonetheless the offer is there. They are Kosovars just as much as we are and this is their home too. They would just have to make many adjustments.
Of course any of them responsible for crimes will have to answer to the judicial system and maybe either face jail time or revenge from their victims, so you can exclude those out of the total number of returnees because I doubt they will want to come back.

So with 100,000 Serbs already in Kosovo and another 80,000 slated for return you get the actual number of Serb citizens of pre war Kosovo!

Now for some of the other posters, Kosovar2006:

Leni keto kisha e keto xhamija, se feja e Shqiptarit eshte Shqiptaria!!!

If you are Muslim that's fine, but you can not expect me to agree with what you say.
I'm from Prishtina OK. I know how Muslim Albanians are. We all drink alcohol. A lot of us eat pork, and besides the very old nobody goes to mosque, and these are the facts.
So Illyrian Boy tells the truth, that we are about as Muslim as the English.
You can not be considered Muslim only because you celebrate Bajram my man. Go tell some real Muslims what kind of devotion Albanians display and they will laugh at your face.

As far as religion in general, I think that has been the Albanians greatest enemy. We have had no benefit from it one way or another.

So leave these Churches and these Mosques, because the faith of the Albanians is Albanianism!!!

Sincerely, Prince of Albania!

Kosovar2006 said...

Prince of Albania I would just like to say 'speak for yourself'.

I don't drink alcohol and by the way I do live in a western society where a pint of Guiness is considered as breakfast. As for pork well bacon is also a breakfast here. I avoid both I still keep my tradition. When they ask me where I'm from I say KOSOVA some don't know where that is I say proudly I am an ALBANIAN. When it comes to religion well I am muslim and I do keep my morals high I do defend islam when its attacked. I was just addressing the growing islamophobia around the world especially in Albanian society. It is a form of discrimination. Yes there are the stereotypical Albanians that do everything contradictory to islam but still say they are muslims. Believe you me that is growing in all nationalisties I am aware of the Asian communties that do the same drink alcohol,drugs,eat pork etc and say I'm a muslim.

I think we have a very healthy islamic society in Kosova.I simply think it is fiercrly under attack at the moment. If you want to keep state and religion apart fine by me just don't attack it and come to provoctive conlcusion that religion hasn't brought anything. Read a little bit more on the benefits of Islam to our society and examine when people loose touch with it, Example our youth in clubs where they have no dignity, morals drug use in the rise, prostitution loosing touch with the reality. Well my religion keeps me away from above even when I am experiencing student life in Britain where all those experimentation is a must in any youth.

Those morals i have learned when i was little in Kosova the place where it is becoming a hub of drug use and prostituation. I just suggest to do a bit more research on the socialogical part of religion and not just politics or the current affairs of 'War on Terrorism'

Nationalism is not as powerful now. It will be useless especially when we join EU where you are Eurpean and everything is respected all thinking all religions. Albanian is what my nationalty is what I am identified as, Muslim is in my heart and soul bases that I have chosen to live my life by, thing that keeps me away from those devilish things that I mentioned above. Its what i believe and no one will stop me in calling to or protecting something that I believe is the truth.

Prince of Albania I really didn't want to open this topic. All I asked was respect my religion and respect if Albanians want to be muslims. If you are an atheist or christian or 'albanist' well i respect you stands and I would love to here or read from your books and learn you bases of life and death and all issues that surround human beings. I respect them all.

Mir said...

Ariant thank you for desecrating his death, shows where stereotypes come from. What Im wondering honestly is wether Albanians are denying that the Battle of 1389 between Serbians and Ottoman Turks ever happened?


Mir said...

On top of that he is not my UNCLE he is my grand uncle's BEST FRIEND from my mother's side. His body was burried in Surcin. Not every death is shown on TV man. But this kind of brutal killing has happened on both sides.

Serbians and Albanians need to leave the mindset that they are the innocent poor victims of everything. It would truly help these negotiations have a nonviolent transition.


illyrianboy said...


I am gonna try to answer your question about the Battle of Kosovo. Nobody denies that it happened but you should understand that the Serbian version of it is a myth. That was not a battle between Serbs and Turks, but it was a battle between a Balkan christian alliance (Serbs, Albanians, Bosnians, Vlachs, Hungarians) and the Ottomans (with their vassals which included the Serbian prince Brankovic).

So, we are proud of fighting against the Ottoman invasion in 1389 alongside our Balkan allies.

I think all of us (especially Serbs) shouldn't see this battle as something that divides us. But, on the other hand, should see it as a fact that Balkan people can be united around a common cause. Then, it was protection of the lands from foreign invasion. Now, it can be a lot of things, from trying to join EU, to a regional free trade agreement (which is happening with Kosovo and Albania, and will probably happen soon with Macedonia).

Have fun

Mir said...

Thank you for answering. I always wondered what Albanians thought about that battle. I understnad in the poem about the battle there are alot of myth-like events. By myth you are referring to the religious aspects in the poems and stories, correct?

I just want to make sure we are both talking about the same "myths" in the story. Good talking to you.


Mir said...

Oh, and my apologies. I know that what you said is true, just forgot about it.

"That was not a battle between Serbs and Turks, but it was a battle between a Balkan christian alliance (Serbs, Albanians, Bosnians, Vlachs, Hungarians) and the Ottomans (with their vassals which included the Serbian prince Brankovic)"

It was indeed a Balkan alliance versus the Ottomans, but if I understand correctly the majority of the actual cavalry/soldiers were Serbians. While the leaders were a mix of various Serbian and other Balkan nations? It could easily be wrong though. Many Turkish documents are found that add/subtract from the known legend.

Maybe Albanians and Serbians will one day unite yet again to fight a invading empire alongside the other European countries and win together. Seems it might be the only way. Great talking to you.


Kosovar2006 said...

Ilirianboy and Mir well done you have found the basis of compromise. And now albanian should hold hands and join serbia and walk into the sunset and forget what has happened within 700years and join together again to fight this war against islam

Kosovar2006 said...

Ilirian boy You are playing a very dangerous game my friend very dangerous. Might as well as be on the same side as serbs no difference to me since now i understand your agenda

Mir said...

"and join together again to fight this war against islam"

Who said ANYTHING like that? This has nothing to due with Islam at all. It would be nice to think that the hate is over only something as simple as religion but it's not.

Being a Serbian I can tell you religion really isn't as important as the Orthodox Church wants to make you think. Atleast with the people I knew, many had viewed Christianity as a tradition not religion.

Everyone I knew had a necklace with a cross on it but they never believed in the Creation theory of how everything was made. Most were into the scientific/athiest view, which might be due to Tito.

I lived in U.A.E for quite a while and I really didn't see any of the hate that people say exists between Christians and Muslims. Most of my friends were Muslim.

I might have gotten off the topic of what you were talking about, and if I have, sorry.


Chris Blaku said...

The truth about the battle is that the largest contingent of fighters were Albanians, and Milesh Kopoli, the assassin of Sultan I was Albanian. The presence of Serbian princes as leaders of the battle is in accordance with their inheritance of Stefan Dushan's presence in Kosova following his earlier conquest. Moreover, had the Serbians been so strongly Christian in their fight against the Ottomans, they would not have fought on the Ottoman side in 1395 against Pope Bonafice's crusade, lead by the Hungarian Prince Sigmondson. Yes, that's correct, only six years later, Knez Lazar's son and his army fought alongside the Ottomans against Christian Europe (Albanians included), against a crusade called by the Pope himself. Also, during this battle, Sultan Beyazit (son of Murat I) was married to Knez Lazar's daughter Olivera, who was eventually captured by the Mongol Khan and subjected to serve him in a state of indefinite nudity as a slave. Of course, this section of Serbian history is conveniently ignored in Serb history books, and it's not a wonder why.

Chris Blaku said...

Also, Serbian historians have equated Serbian history with the life, death and resurrection of Christ. Go figure for a nation that considers their religion merely a tradition.

Prince of Albania said...

Albanians have many religions, none of which define us!

Faith is supposed to be spiritual, not political.
There is no war on Islam! With all due respect, that is the most backwards comment I have ever heard anyone make in these pages.
The war is on the fascist terrorists that distort religion and attach political meaning to it. The war is against the animals that cut heads off.
Anyone that believes in God does not do these things.

What bothers me more is that you are attaching this Muslim character to the Albanians when it plays such an insignificant part of our society.
We are less Muslim than the Muslim Bosnians.
On a Muslim scale we are the least Muslim people in the world!
You are one of a few because the majority, I repeat, the majority of Albanian society in Kosovo and Albania is completely secular and non religious.
I knew everyone and anyone in Prishtina when I was growing up.
I never heard them express the wish to pray, go to mosque or do any of the other things the religion demands. Not one, and I knew many people!
So please, keep your opinions to your self, this is not a religious web site, it is a political one.

If you want to talk about Albanian politics and anything Albanian, be my guest, but if Religion is your thing don't forget, Albanians have many religions, none of which define us!

Deshar said...

The Romans ruled Illyria--which now became the province of Illyricum--for about six centuries. Under Roman rule Illyrian society underwent great change, especially in its outward, material aspect. Art and culture flourished, particularly in Apollonia, whose school of philosophy became celebrated in antiquity. To a great extent, though, the Illyrians resisted assimilation into Roman culture. Illyrian culture survived, along with the Illyrian tongue, though many Latin words entered the language and later became a part of the Albanian language. Christianity manifested itself in Illyria during Roman rule, about the middle of the 1st century AD. At first the new religion had to compete with Oriental cults--among them that of Mithra, Persian god of light--which had entered the land in the wake of Illyria's growing interaction with eastern regions of the empire. For a long time it also had to compete with gods worshiped by Illyrian pagans. The steady growth of the Christian community in Dyrrhachium (the Roman name for Epidamnus) led to the creation there of a bishopric in AD 58. Later, episcopal seats were established in Apollonia, Buthrotum (modern Butrint), and Scodra (modern Shkodr'). By the time the empire began to decline, the Illyrians, profiting from a long tradition of martial habits and skills, had acquired great influence in the Roman military hierarchy. Indeed, several of them went on from there to become emperors. From the mid-3rd to the mid-4th century AD the reins of the empire were almost continuously in the hands of emperors of Illyrian origin: Gaius Decius, Claudius Gothicus, Aurelian, Probus, Diocletian, and Constantine the Great. information on albania

Kosova or Kosovo, whatever, deserves independence! Any other solution is simply not viable.