Thursday, November 17, 2005

Kosovo's parliament sets independence as ultimate goal for talks with Serbia

PRISTINA, Serbia-Montenegro (AP) - Kosovo lawmakers on Thursday adopted a resolution stating that they will accept nothing less than independence in the U.N.-mediated talks on the future of the province.

The lawmakers, under pressure from U.S. and European diplomats, backed down from an earlier intention to unilaterally declare independence as they discussed their position in upcoming talks on the province's long-term future.

The 10-point resolution set the stage for a bitter political fight in the talks with Serbia, which insists the province should not gain independence but rather enjoy broad autonomy within the current union that replaced Yugoslavia.

The approved resolution stated that the province will accept nothing less than full independence and sovereignty for Kosovo, which has been run by the U.N. since mid-1999.

"The will of the people of Kosovo for independence is not negotiable," the resolution said.

The resolution, which will serve as the basis of the political platform for the ethnic Albanians in the talks, also welcomes the future international involvement demands that every move by Kosovo's negotiators be approved in the parliament or by referendum.

The Serbian government on Tuesday unanimously adopted a resolution rejecting independence for Kosovo in the U.N.-mediated talks expected to begin next month.

Sabri Hamiti, a senior member of the ruling Democratic League of Kosovo, said the toning down of the Kosovo position came after "immense pressure" from Western diplomats.

U.S. and European diplomats had warned ethnic Albanian leaders that they would consider a declaration of independence unilateral and would not accept it. The top U.N. official in Kosovo, Soren Jessen-Petersen, has the power to declare such a declaration illegal.

Serbian representatives in the province's assembly continued their boycott.

However, in Kosovo's northern, ethnically divided city of Kosovksa Mitrovica, some 200 Serb representatives of a self-styled council of Kosovo Serb municipalities adopted their own declaration warning that if the province became independent, that would be the "final stage in the cleansing of Serbs" from the province.

It will constitute the "greatest pogrom of Serbs in history," the declaration said.

Kosovo has been run by the United Nations since the end of the NATO air war that halted Serb forces' crackdown on separatist ethnic Albanians.

The U.N. envoy to mediate talks on Kosovo's future, Finland's former President Martti Ahtisaari, was expected to visit Kosovo and Belgrade next week and move to Vienna, Austria, in December to start the negotiations.


illyrianboy said...

Way to go Kosovo Parliament!

It is funny how international community didn't put any pressure on the Serbian parliament to back down on their resolution.

Kosovar2006 said...

Yeah that was unfair from the international comunity which pressured to change the resolution.

Perosnally I think resolution is not good enough

Decleration of Independence!

No there is something that would make Albanians happy

Visit Prishtina said...

Kuvendi i Kosovës did the right thing.

I congratulate all the Members of Parliament.

Prince of Albania said...

It is a positive and important step forward.
They have declared that the final outcome of the negotiations can be nothing less than independence.
So by this they have statetd their goal of respecting the will of the people of Kosovo for a sovreign state.
They might as well have declared independence! It's the same thing only with diefferent verbiage.
Way to go.
Sincerely, Prince of Albania!

Objective said...

How can you be so arrogant and greedy? Whose people of Kosovo?!?! - only the part you are interested in! Give you a finger and you are going to bite the whole hand! You have been pushing the entire Serb population outside of Kosovo for years. Do not forget what the demographic picture was 60-70 years ago and what Tito did for you.

Stop with this greediness!

Kosovar2006 said...

Ok Objective

I want to hear your suggestion of what should albanians do at this moment? Accept something that we already had (autonomy) and we weren't happy with If we do that well we are back in square one it will be another cycle.

Well this time is different we want independence so we have nothing to do with Serbian goverment,police and military.Independence is the will of our people and it will be fullfield even if the entire world turns against us.

We will not fail the last wish (amanetet) of our people that gave their lifes (deshmoret)

PejaCity said...

This is what we have been waiting for, and screw EU and all those who say no to this!

Serb's had their chance to showthemslefs insteed they are pushing more and more for us this means no rooms for serbs in Dardania and that's it!

illyrianboy said...

Objective, I can't make sense of what you are trying to say. The only thing Tito did for us was to stop Rankovic's efforts to rid Kosovo of Albanians. And that he didn't do because he loved us but because of the general situation in Yugoslavia.

And nobody gave us anything. It is our inalienable natural right to be free and to decide about our future.

Cheers buddy

armera said...

I feel like I am watching a movie, and I know the end of it. I personally am enjoying every moment of it. You know why, because we have a clean conscience and a noble cause. It is the right to breath free and to plan the future of our children, I don’t see anything wrong in this.

Me fat na kofte pavarsia ;)

arianit said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
arianit said...

Why Independence for Kosovo? is a more academic answer to those asking the same question.

the-ilirian said...

lets just look at the demographics of today shallwe. But even if we do look at the demographics of yesteryear it doesn't make any difference because all historians (reputable historians that is) know that the territory called Kosova has always been predominantly inhabited by Albanians and their ancestors. These historians know when and how serbs came to live in this territory and the measures (means) they took to inhabit this territory.

The Ilirian

ivan said...

I am a bit tierd of your comments such as Serbs occupied us, Kosova belongs to Albanians, The Battle field of Kosovo is a myth and so on.
I came here to express my opinion, my knowledge and the facts i know, together with respect for your opinions and facts. As a result, I was insulted, called a comedian and having very sarcastic comments on my behalf.

I dont want to respond to that. I will just use facts. If you are interested what an objective and liable source (not a Serbian source) has to say about the history of Kosovo demographics, go to this link:

you will see that yes Albanians have been present in Kosovo , but it was mainly dominated by Serbs. In the 20th century , thanks to Tito who so much loved you, he allowed you to torture Serbs and drive them away from Kosovo. All up to the point where Serbs had enough, we were tierd of being tortured from your side. thats why Milosevic came to power. My family voted for him, because we as Serbs felt threatened by you Albanians.

Please be honest. I would respect you more if you honestly say yes our goal was to take this territory from you from the beginning, and we dont want any Serbs in Kosovo at all. Dont sell me the stories how you have been tortured by Serbs and dont play the victim. You were nthe first ones who threw the punch.

the-ilirian said...

Ohhhh...and I suppose you were there on that dreadful day when the first punch was thrown by an Albanian were you???? pppffff!!! You make me laugh out loud man.

the ilirian

Dardania 2006 said...

"Please be honest. I would respect you more if you honestly say yes our goal was to take this territory from you from the beginning, and we dont want any Serbs in Kosovo at all. Dont sell me the stories how you have been tortured by Serbs and dont play the victim. You were nthe first ones who threw the punch."

So you want us to accept the image you're trying to portray about the Albanians? Next thing you will ask is "please be honest and accept you are nothing but insects that multiply".

Your family voted for Mr. Milosevic, a peer of Stalin, Pol Pot, and Dear Leader of North Korea, I am sorry but I cannot take any arguments you bring forward as ones coming from a normal human beign, you are clearly in denial.

We have stopped playing the victims, we're building our own country. It is Serbia that is playing the victims, crying "the muslims stole this and that".

Move on, cause no Wikipedia article "detailing" in a "factual" way the demographics of a piece of land 200 years ago will help you become and healthy and European country.

Move on dear Serbs.

With love and a lot of ICE-CREAM!!!

Dardania 2006 said...

Let him define the first punch!

It is just ridicilous how Serbs cling on to history when arguing with a nation that is older than 2500 years (the Albanians yes).

Last time I checked, Serbia was part of the Austrian Empire, and then Ottoman Empire hmmmm, guess the Austrians and Turks must have a say in the affairs of Serbia. They will not give you independence dear Serbs.

Oh add the Germans to that list, together with the Mongols, a few Bulgarians and you're set...Serbia the cradle of culture to all those nations.

Visit Prishtina said...

Zonja dhe zotërinj, burra të dheut, ju lutem të më lejoni që vetëm unë të merrem me këtë fqinjin sepse do të jetë më interesant të jetë një me një (1:1) dhe nuk do të mund t'i shmanget pyetjeve nga pala jonë.

Ju faleminderit.


You claim to come here to express your opinion and to show respect for 'our' opinion. Good.

How come then you cannot show respect for our opinion that we want freedom and that we were under Serb occupation? If you ask a person why he/she wants autonomy, or a republic, or an independent state then you should be ready to accept answers that he/she does/did not want to live under Serbian rule or be part of a Slavic country.

If you want to have a discussion then you cannot 'pick and choose' the arguments. Why? Because the history of Kosova does not start in the 15th century. Why Serbs don't like to talk about the people who lived in Kosova before Slavs occupied the Balkans (and, more specifically, before they occupied Kosova)? Also, how reliable could a census of the 15th century really be? Do you really think that all the people who were living in the highlands were counted?

It is a well-known fact that Kosova was under Serbian occupation around the 15th century. So, it is only natural that there were many Serbs living there. But the history does not start in the 15th century and it certainly does not finish in the 15th century.

If you wonder why I am using the word occupation, then think, Slavs (including Serbs) came to the Balkans from Russia (Ural mountains or wherever). Slavs took somebody's land, and that is called occupation.

The fact that Serbs occupied some land for a few years it does not mean that it belongs to the Serbs.

This must be well understood.

But, please, allow me to ask you one question: do Serbs want to return the world back to the 15th century? Because, if that's what Serbs want then they must be out of their mind. If not, then what's the point?

If we were to apply your theory then what shall we do with the United States of America, or Australia, or New Zealand? Shall we turn the clock back to the 15th century and pretend nothing happened since?

Do you know how many Kosovar Albanians were imprisoned, tortured and killed under Tito? Have you heard of Adem Demaci?

You want us not to laugh at you, but how can we not when you say that Tito, a Slav, loved Albanians more than he loved Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks or Macedonians.

If these are going to be the arguments of the Serbian delegation in the forthcoming talks, then we better go to a theatre and let the Serbs present their arguments on stage. At least it will be a good comedy show!

How can you say that Albanians tortured Serbs when Albanians did not control the police, the army or any other armed force?

Fascinating stuff! You want me to take you seriously, but name me one, just one single place in the world where an ethnic group which does not control any armed force (police, army, paramilitary units) tortures other ethic groups who have total control of the these forces.

Please, I beg you, name one place in the whole world.

The Milosevic story deserves no comment. Absolutely no comment.

I am glad you want to respect Albanians more, and I am even gladder you want to know the truth.

However, I will have to let you down by telling you that the one and only goal of Kosovar Albanians in former Yugoslavia was to survive. It was that goal of survival that lead us to seek protection and request the status of a republic.

This is truth. The naked truth!

Kosovar Albanians were not in a position to have goals and policies like that. We now all know that it was the Serbian Academy, the Serbian Radical Party and their allies that wanted to take total control of Kosova by killing or expelling all of the Albanians from Kosova.

Truth hurts!

Thank you very much!

ivan said...

Visit Prishtina, you love to ask questions and answer them themselves and have a feeling you won the argument. The fact that i brought up is the last stated documented fact. Before 15th century we can all make up stories. I am basing my arguments on the last documented facts.

As for returning the world to the 15th century, you have a nice imagination. Actually Albanians in Kosovo were not under the control of Serbs, but rather Ottomans. So you were not occupied under us. I am just stating that Serbs dominated demographic wise in Kosovo from the 15th century all the way up to the 20th century. The question is what happened for this radical shift in the demographics. Did the Albanians m ultiply extremely more than the Serbs? I doubt. The answer lies to the fact that after the second world war, Tito opened borders of Serbia to Albania to allow the Albanians to settle into Kosovo. Broder Communist favour. So who is the new comer then?

Titos mani mission was to keep Serbs down. Everybody was allowed to state their ethnic identity except the Serbs. Croats were corats, slovenians slovenian , albeninans were albanians, but Serbs were Yugoslavs. You were allowed to practice islam, Slovenians were allowed to go to church, but Serbs were looked at bad if they would go to the Orthodox church.

As for the torture from Albanian side, it was all cept in silence about the murders from albanians to Serbs. Mir told you an example about his familys friend, but you guys said he was gay. I like the way you respect the dead.I am sure islam doesent teach you that.

Serbian women were raped, young children killed, only because they were Serbs, and poor albanians cant live next to Slavs. Do you remember the story when an albaninan soldier killed the whole barrack while they were sleeping?

But under Titos times this was all cept in silence, in order not to create ethinc tensions. And we stupid serbs accepted that.

This is not a comedy, this is a tragedy.

armera said...


What newspaper did you read these stories from?

I grew up in Kosove and lived there untill the age of 20. What you are claiming here is a continuation of Milosevic era propaganda. You were so cetain as well that Albanians were running away from NATO bombings, and that Srebrenica didn't exist, and that poisaning of Albanian schools was a mass imagination untill all this was proven different by international community.

Even historically we have a better chance to claim Kosove as ours, however I am tired of these arguments. You and yours alike can continue living in past, as that is what your chosen man tought you well to do. We however have chosen future.

Thanks god for the international community that is present today in Kosove in big number. They will guarantee that just and freedom will prevail in the region, you are welcome to join us building a better balcans or continue fighting the ottoman empire.


armera said...


You are calling on Wikipedia numbers?!
I just changed them to something else, go and do some reading how Wikipedia works and then reference your arguments based on that. Please do not embarrase yourself, find some more reliable non-Balkans credible internatinal sources.

Go check Wikipedia:

It appears to me that there were more Albanians then Serbs even then ;)


Visit Prishtina said...

Yes, I do ask questions. That’s why we call it a discussion. And, if you disagree with my answers then give me your answers. And not only that, by convince me that your answers is better than mine.

Honestly, don't you see any inconsistencies in your arguments?

Ivan I apologise for being so blunt but frankly your argument is so flawed that I don’t think I won the argument; I know I won the argument. And let me tell you why:

You claim that Serbs were the dominant ethnic group in Kosova from the 15th to the 20th century. How come then that while the entire region was under Ottoman rule Serbs managed to “maintain the dominant position”, yet when Kosova was under direct Serbian rule this changed. And not only that it changed, but it was so dramatic that the “dominant ethnic group” that controlled everything from finances of former Yugoslavia to the army slipped to an “ethnic minority” of less than 10 per cent.

This makes no sense, does it?

What the hell, if what you are saying were true then Serbs should beg the Turks to come back and occupy Kosova so that the demographics shift in favour of Serbs!

You carry on with your magic by stating that Albanians from Albania moved to Kosova. Where did this come from?

This statement is totally preposterous. Who are these people that “moved” to Kosova? How many? Provide a credible source to back your arguments.

It’s easy to drop a lie when it is convenient for you, but I am afraid unless you can back it up with hard, and I mean hard evidence then it will always remain a lie.

I can claim that Kosovars have landed in Mars, but if I did so I would lie.

So, please back up your magic -- or else, it remains just a fantasy.

Poor Tito. He rebuilt your country after WW2, and made it what it is today, yet still everything is his fault. If Tito was so anti-Serb why did Belgrade (Beograd) become the capital of former Yugoslavia? Why was the Yugoslav Army based in Belgrade? Why were all the major financial institutions of the former Yugoslavia based in Belgrade?

If Tito was so anti-Serb why did the Serbs stay silent? Could it be that Serbs are pussies? I am sorry if I sound arrogant, but Kosovar Albanians had the courage to go out in the streets whenever they were not happy with something. Why didn’t Serbs do the same if the could not be Serb or Orthodox? Is that why Tito made Yugoslavia so centralised, to oppress the Serbs?

Ivan, I am really sorry that I have to say this, but Serbs always seem to do the wrong thing. Always.

I am left with no other option other than to conclude that Serbs seriously lack good judgment.

(a) Serbs kept “the Albanian torture (rape and killings)” silent. Wrong decision!

(b) Serbs kept “Tito’s anti-Serb discrimination” silent. Wrong decision!

(c) Serbs vote for Milosevic to “save them”. Wrong decision!

You people just simply don’t seem to be able to make a right decision ever.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at things), Serbs did not keep silent the “story when an Albanian soldier killed the whole barrack while they were sleeping”. Why was this story not kept silent? This goes against “not creating ethnic tensions”.

Tell me more about this story. The Albanian soldier killed all the soldiers in one barrack, and no one could shot back in return. How many soldiers were in the barrack at the time? He must have been one of those “American Ninjas” from Hollywood! Or maybe he used some sort of a chemical weapon (like farts) and everyone died while asleep?

Anyhow, your tragedy really touched me. You enlightened me.

Sleep tight and think about whether to reply to this post or not. Decision time! Just make sure you don’t get it wrong, again.

Thank you very much!

P.S. I gather you are not going to answer my previous questions. Not the kind of questions you like to answer? I thought so. I understand.

arianit said...


The census documents you quote are posted on the free for all and up for grabs Wikipedia. Those data and the conclusions derived from them are highly debatable and definitely not agreed on by Albanians. Please read the Discussion page of that article for the non-Serb arguments. Population documents from the era have anomalies like "Dusan son of Gjon". Father has an Albanian name whereas the son has a Serbian one. This tells us that since Serbs had Kosova occupied in the years immediately before the Ottoman occupation, there was a degree of assimilation and forced conversion going on in Kosova. The Canon of Car Dusan is crystal clear about the brutal methods that should be used to convert people to the Serb church. But let's assume that I haven't convinced you yet about the authoctony of K-Albanians and since you can prove the Serbian one in the earliest date - 15th century - Kosova should belong to Serbs. But should we argue the same case in vast areas of the globe today where we have written documents that tell us that whitties disembarked for the first time in the 15th century and thus were a mintority for a few more centuries?

Since the 15the century a lot of water has gone under the bridge. Some Serbs (and Albanians, too) have emigrated to present day Vojvodina (ironically, you claim both the originating land where you are psesently minority and Vojvodina where you are presently majority as your onw) after the Austrian debacle, some Albanians left N. Albania to escape blood feuds and settled in Kosova, some Albanians were cleansed from the Nis-Prokuplje region in 1878, some Albanians were cleansed inbetween the two World Wars and their lands given to Serb colonialists, and then those Serbs were sent packing back home when Serbia was taken over by Nazis. During Rankovic, some Albanians were sent to Turkey, because they were "Turks" (any Muslim was a Turk in his mind and those of his followers in the Bosnia and Kosova wars). When Rankovic terror stopped and Albanians won their rights, Serbs left out of Kosova to the more developed Serbia. And so did many Albanians to Germany, Switzerland, and Austria.
As far as for the Albanians massively pouring from Albania in the three years after WWII, that's just exagerated beyond all proportions. Morevoer, the movement was both ways with mostly the highly educated nationalist elite Kosovars escaping Serb "communist" terror to Albania during that time and the Royal elite escaping Hoxha's regime to Kosova.

Population movements were very fluid, as you can see. But before the nationalist wars of the 19th century started, there was no recorded ethnic conflict between the Serb and the Albanian people. Population movement yes, but not something akin to the 20th century slaughterhouse. National identity is a pure 19th century invention of mostly the Prussian state. What matters today is not history but how we can make Kosova a livebable place for all of its inhabitants. And I ask you to step up and let all K-Serbs around that they need to help themselves by cutting the BS before we Albanians can help them.

ivan said...

Prishtina, if your queston was about the return to 15th century, i will gladly answer it to you. No the serbs dont want the world to return to 15ht century, all we want is the stealing of our territory to stop. Kosovo is Serbian, under the UN convention and the last liable document states that Serbs were the major ethinc group in Kosovo prove that Kosovo always belonged to Serbia. You can make up fairy tales, myths and what ever you want, but if you can't come up with a liable source that Albanians dominated that area before the serbs, you will never be able to convince me. Even the UN resolution 1244 states that Kosovo belogns to Serbia. Its not only that you are trying to steal our land, but also our history. Neglecting the serbian heroism at the Kosovo battle field. You publish books where you state that our kings are Albanians, and our churches were built by christian albanians. Please, if we are talking about comedy...thats the grand show.Serbian people want the theaft to stop.

As for Serbs making bad decisions, at least i am objective unlike you who idealises his people and closes the eye on the albanian mafia who controls the distribution of drugs and prostitution across europe. With this money you are sponsoring your lobbying and the independence. I dont say my people are perfect, but we dont steal with the help of drug money.

As for the soldier case,again you are disrespecting the dead. He killed the barrack soldiers (all Serbs) in 80s, while they were asleep. Tell me when somebody strikes a knofe in your throat, how will you defend yourself? Maybe you are the one who watches to much of Hollywood.

did you read the last news, where your new liberation army is threatening to attack Prishtina. They say they will destroy the UNMIK forces. Who lives in Hollywood now?Or dreamworld?

Just one thing about my people. We do make mistakes, but at least we are brave. when we fight, we fight face to face, unlike your UCK who attacked Serbian police forces at night and then ran away and hid as civilians into the villages. And when Serbian forces would catch them, and shoot them, you guys will be crying that we killed civilians. Good acting, Hollywood is waiting.

Please dont get offended by my stands. Read them and think about what i wrote. I did the same on your.



tironsi said...

Hehe, Ivan that Wikipedia article was mainly written by Serbs, check the edit wars in the history. What a joke.

arianit said...


The cases you mention here belong to every portfolio of Serb attack on Kosova. Right know I enjoy debating them with you in the safe virtual world, but you must not forget that this case and the gay-sadism one (which the other Serb dude adopted to his uncle) have been used to build up hate against Albanians and ultimately illegally revoke Kosova's autonomy.
The BBC/VPRO et all documentary The Death of Yusoglavia has the leader of the Kosovo Polje Serbs proudly delcare in film that the stories being fed to Milosevic at that time were made up. I know from a close family member, a police detective at the time, that Serbs went as far as consecrate their own graves to blame it on the Albanians. They weren't allowed to speak up.

If I remember right, the soldier you are talking about went berserk and was known throughout to be mentally unstable. I believe there were three victims of his, and only one was Serb. Major foreign authors on the Kosova problem touch on this issue briefly if you wish to learn more. Since we are at this, you forget to mention some 20 Albanians VJ soldiers that came home dead in sealed caskets in the 80's. I don't want to speculate but what would you think if your family member is brought to you dead and you are told you can't see his body.

Visit Prishtina said...


I am really glad I finally removed your gloves. At least now we all know who stands where.

You were tired of Kosovar Albanians saying that we were under occupation, but now you say that they are 'stealing your territory'. Does this mean that we should now be tired too?

Furthermore, you state that "Kosova was always Serbian". Really? Does that always also include the time before Slavs (Serbs) came to the Balkans. Because if it doesn't include that time then it certainly was not always.

Or maybe you and other Serbs do not understand the meaning of the word always.

Was Kosova also Serbian when it was under Ottoman rule? Well, certainly not. Legally, it was part of the Ottoman Empire and as far as I remember the Ottoman Empire was not Serbian.

All historical documents prove that the Illyrian tribe of Dardanae lived in a territory that included present-day Kosova. And Albanians are direct descendents of the ancient Illyrians.

For your information, Dardans and Illyrians were not Slavs.

And what Serbian kings do we claim to be Albanian? What on Earth is this?

Serbian heroism in the Battle of Kosova? You lost! Put that in your head once and for all: Serbs lost!

Heroism is hardly a term associated with losing.

You mentioned xenophobia earlier in your posts, but it is now very clear who is xenophobic here when you say that Albanians control European drugs network.

This is a much talked topic with a much needed clarification:

(a) Kosova and Albania are not drug producing countries. If some drugs is produced, then it is so low-level that for the European drugs network is equivalent to zero.

Anyone who dares to say otherwise is outright stupid.

(b) Kosova and Albania do not stretch from Afghanistan or Colombia to western Europe. In other worlds, Kosova and Albania are not "the drug channels" from the countries that produce the drugs to those that consume it. So, it is totally preposterous to state that Albanians control the European drugs network.

(c) Kosova is a landlocked country. For the drugs to enter Kosova it must come from somewhere, from other countries (not just Afghanistan, Iran, Russia etc. -- but other European countries too). For the drugs to reach western Europe it cannot jump from Kosova to France or Britain, it must go through some other countries (for example, Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia, Hungary, Slovenia etc.).

So, if, and I say if drugs comes in the hands of Albanians, it must have been in the hands of at least a dozen other countrues/nationalities and similarly for it to reach western Europe it must go through another dozen countries/nationalities.

That is hardly, hardly a control of anything.

I sincerely apologise if I have shaken your xenophobic beliefs!

Now, if you want me to take you seriously and "read and think about what your wrote", then please answer the questions I have asked you earlier. I have responded to every single issue you raised, but somehow you don't like to answer my questions. For you convenience, I shall write them down again for you:

What is Skadarska? Google tells me it's a street name. Is that right?

What happened to that magical figure of 200.000 Serb refugees? There were fewer than 200.000 Serbs in Kosova in 1991 (according to Serbian sources). Other details you will find in my previous posts.

How many houses and mosques that Serbian troops destroyed have been rebuilt by the Serbian government?

Can a human being really throw a rock?

Why did Kosovar Serbs block all major roads in March 2004?

Why did you state (or lie) that Kosovar Serbs no longer own their property in Kosova?

Why do you try to blame Kosovar Albanians for the fact that you and your people voted for Milosevic, when in fact that was a poor judgment from your side?

What people were living in Kosova before the Slavs came from Russia (or Ural mountains)?

Do you know how many Kosovar Albanians were imprisoned, tortured and killed in former Yugoslavia under Tito's regime? Have you heard of Adem Demaci?

Why would a Slav, i.e. Tito, love non-Serbs, i.e. Albanians, and hate fellow Slavs, i.e. Serbs?

Could you name a place in the world where an ethnic group which totally controls the armed forces is "tortured" by another ethnic group that controls nothing?

Do you know about the plans that the Serbian Academy and the Serbian Radical Party had about Kosova and Albanians?

Why don't you bring the Turks back to Kosova to help you with demographics, since while Ottomans ruled in Kosova, Serbs were "the dominant ethnic group"?

How many Albanians came from Albania to Kosova and when? Any sources? Was it 1 or 10 or 100... how many?

Why would a anti-Serb, i.e. Tito, make Belgrade the capital of former Yugoslavia and base the army and the financial institutions there, in the heart of Serbia?

Why didn't Serbs demonstrate in the street for their rights to "be Serb and Orthodox" in former Yugoslavia?

Why didn't you keep the story of the military barrack also "silent"?

Can a person kill "all Serbs" in a military barrack with (wait for it) a knife, and nobody hears the screams or the cries for help. Is the army deaf? Were all the soldiers deaf or what? These are the sort of questions an investigation would ask, so I am entitled to ask you.

Frankly, it must be one of those magical barracks where one can kill "all the Serbs" and no one hears or does anything.

More importantly, and I cannot overemphasise this, more importantly, can anyone really believe a word of what the (Yugoslav, Serbian) army says?

Let me ask you this, was there an independent investigation into "these killings"? A non-military investigation?

Just to refresh your thoughts, two young Serbian soldiers "committed suicide" in Belgrade a few months ago. Or at least that's what the (Serbian) army said. Didn't that have anything to do with the fact that they might have seen Mladic hiding in their military barrack? What were the mothers of the dead soldiers saying? What were the parents of the soldier requesting?

And, yes, I nearly forgot: Mladic, General Mladic! This great, great Serbian hero (who hides, I must not forgot to add this).

Yet another wierd, in fact extremely strange Serb mentality: a hero who hides!

The term hero is hardly associated with hiding in the rest of the world, just like the term heroism and losing don't really match.

Before I finish, I just wanted to add that I used to love people who would vote for Milosevic and their speeches in television:

"Zovem se Dusan. Ja sa zemloradnik. Imam troje dece. Zivelo Slobodan Milosevic, zivela Srbija!"

When I was growing up, Milosevic came to Kosova and gave a speech in Prishtina and then later on in Mitrovica. This was before the war. And in both speeches he said the following:

Znam ja sta me ceka!

He probably did!

That's all folks. Thank you very much!

Chris Blaku said...

Ivan, you desperately need to brush up on 15th century history. First of all, prior to the Ottoman invasion, the territory of Kosova was ruled under various Serbian dynasties, broken apart from the Nemandji rulers. Throughout this period, the inhabitants of the region were undergoing forced Slavization, that is the slavization of names and languages through their Orthodox Church. Proof of such forced assimilation exists in Turkish census reports, which indicated Serbian names for children, and Albanian names for parents, ie, Vlado biri i Gjonit (Vlado, son of Gjon). The Catholics of Kosova were purged, as the Serbian dynasties were ruled in accordance to the code of Stefan Dushan, which penalizes any individual that commits "heresy" (allegiance to Rome) with death.

Moreover, your portrayal of falsified Serbian history is off-beat, as the Serbians do claim that Albanians enjoyed a relevant presence in the province, but only due to Turkish fortune during the time period. Had you been somewhat informed, you would know that regardless of Tito's border practice, Albanians from Albania were prohibited from leaving the nation due to Enver Hoxha's border isolation. Furthermore, the Serbians, due to their double crossing of the Balkan people, enjoyed virtual autonomy within the Ottoman Empire. Specifically, the Serbian Orthodox Church, effectively the Serbian Government, was given control of all Christians in Kosova from the 15th century and forward. According to letters written from Catholic Churches to Venice, the true enemies of the Catholics, in effect the Albanians, were not the Turks but rather their henchmen the Orthodox Serbians, who had began to rule the Albanians of the region in accordance with the codes of Stefan Dushan, where Catholics are punishable by death, as well as any who aided in their worship.

In addition, you should note that your hero Knez Lazar lost his blood to Mongol slavery. Upon his defeat at the Battle of Kosova, his son formed an allegiance with the son of Sultan Murat, Beyazit, and offered his sister Olivera to him as collateral. Therefore, the fortune of the fabled Serbian hero Lazar lead his blood into the Ottoman throne. This vassalage enabled preferred treatment for the Serbians throughout history, as it was considered an honor for Serbian noblewomen to marry Turkish Pasha's (Generals) and various Turkish nobles. As for the fate of Olivera, daughter of Knez Lazar, upon the defeat of Sultan Beyazit by the Mongol hordes in the East, she was captured and forced to serve the Mongol Khan in a state of nudity indefinitely. With such proud history, it's no wonder you feel the need to fabricate stories of bravery and valiance so common among the Albanianis.

Chris Blaku said...

If anyone had the opportunity to inhabit Kosova from the 10th century on forward, it was the Serbians, who enjoyed every territorial and military advantage until Tito's reign, which brought somewhat of a balance to Kosovar life. Read up on Serbian colonization, or if you like, I may be able to provide quotes from pre-WW2 Yugoslav Government officials on Kosova's population, rather than the falsified documents you present from your viable source "Wikipedia."

If you get desperate, and feel the need to pull the high-birth-rate card, you should note that throughout 1945-1965, the birthrate of Kosovar Serbs was on par with Kosovar Albanians, according to your sacred Yugoslav Government.

I expect your response.

Prince of Albania said...

I can't belive you are having this conversation with him!
The central point if Serbian propaganda is that a cataclysmic migration of Albanians from Northern Albania migrated to Serbia and as a result we were a majority overnight.
Before that evening there were no Albanians in Kosovo. Everyone was Serb. And then all of the sudden 500,000 Albanians converged from the mountains, and there is no record of this whatsoever.
There are records showing the demographic of Kosovo in the 15th Century alright, but no scientific statistical documentation exists to prove this epic movement of a population!
Give me a break...
Let's talk about the real matters at hand and those are, Kosovo will be independent in 2006, what can we as people do to make Kosovo and Albania and all of our neighbors the best states they can be.
That's all that matters, everything else is just pissing in the wind.

Sincerely, Prince of Albania!

Chris Blaku said...

Even the fool deserves his response Prince. Besides, so much of modern-Serbian politics, their supposed reason for wanting Kosova included, are based on their ancient falsified historical claims. As you well know, every article begins with "Kosovo, ancient cradle of civilization for the Serbs...." It is a false claim that need be clarified.

If the Serbians are engaged in a fight for the province based on modern concerns and consequences, theirs is an argument that does not have a leg to stand on. For this reason they retreat to their long-accepted historical fables about ancient rulers and christian rebellions. The ancient idea that a massive movement of Albanians took place is a ridiculous assessment to any geographic expert or historian for numerous reasons. Had these 500,000 Albanians suddenly appeared from Catholic mountainous Albania, the underfunded Catholic Churches of Kosova under Andre Bogdani (whose letters to Venice provide the sole accurate description of 15th century Kosovar life), would have been overwhelmed and sought financial support from the Catholic Church, who would have cherished the opportunity to service a new flock.

In any case, the Serb will not engage in a real historical debate, so perhaps it is futile as you say.

Cvijus011 said...

It is quite amusing to see how people discuss in the most primitive manor, undermining others and with arguments that have no validity.

Firstly, if you want to make any expansionist steps, first take care of your internal affairs in Albania (in fact the poorest country in Europe). In politics and in history that is a sacred rule.

Secondly, in every historical source worldwide you will find out that Kosovo-Metohija was always Serbian, despite the fact that nowadays it is ethincally almost Albanian. Note that ethnically is not the same thing historically. Historicaly Kosovo-Metohija was NEVER Albanian. Therefore, those who say all the time about Serbian occupation should take a book and read about, I mean, is it possible for Albania to occupy Tirana? It's impossible for one country to occupy its own teritory.

Thirdly, I'm really interestd to learn more about this bishop Bogdani. As I know it, he was called bishop Bogdan of serbian origin. How would you like it for Serbs to call Kastriot as Kastriotevic? it was always a tendency of rather young nations to reinvent history and with this I mean the Albanian claims for Illyrians. The Illyrians disapeared in the 4th century AD and Albanians appear in the 14th century AD.
Concider my points and give me some civilized and valid arguments.
DOn't justify the stereotypes which exist in western Europe about Albanians.

Anonymous said...

Why should history justify anyone's arguement for country ownership? America is a good example of returning property would be nice in theory but cann't be done in reality. If all the Europeans in America returned their land to Native Americans then returned to Europe and reclaimed homes most were booted off, what would happen to the current property owners in Europe? Would they deserve a violent booting because 200 years ago another family rightfully owned the land? NO. And could we ever go back in history and actually trace down rightful owners? NO.

Drop the my history is better than yours and start a real dialogue.

And, I hear you hissing at the meer mention of the word America. It's O.K. I hear hot air escaping from your direction too.

P.S. I know nowhere my country occupy's belongs to my country. Sometimes you just have to say "My country is wrong." Give it a try.