Friday, June 02, 2006

Serbian negotiator blames mediators for collapse of Vienna Kosovo talks

Text of report by "SJ" entitled "Total Collapse of Talks in Vienna"]Serbian newspaper Glas javnosti on 1 June

Belgrade, Vienna: "As the Albanian party refused to discuss any economic topics and insisted on maintaining utterly opposing views, the Vienna talks on Kosmet [Kosovo and Metohija] have been suspended and no date has been set for their resumption," said Dusan Celic, member of Serbia's team in charge of questions on assets and economy.

Serbia expects its proposal about changing the way for conducting the talks to be examined, with future status brought into the foreground, Celic told Glas.

"The reason is that yesterday's meeting showed that the talks cannot be conducted in segments. Speaking of assets, Albanians invoked the succession signed by the members of the former Yugoslavia in 2001, whereby all assets in Kosmet would remain theirs. We argued that those were Serbian assets now in the control of UNMIK [UN Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo]. The mediators would not take on a harsher stance towards the Albanian party, so they are to blame for the suspension of the talks," said Celic.

He said 700,000 land registry entries were usurped by Albanians and 17,000 complaints for damages filed by Serbs that were not in procedure, the obstacle being access to court due to security reasons.

"Yesterday's round of talks showed international mediators not well prepared for talks on assets and economy. For us, assets are the most important question together with freedom of movement and the right to live. The Albanian party came out with very extreme stances, even neglected Resolution 1244, trying to keep the talks focused on status only," said Celic.

The Serbian delegation returns today, while Albanians will remain in Vienna to discuss decentralization with mediators. We have learned unofficially that the mediators will try to influence the Albanians to soften their position. Presiding over yesterday's talks were Stefan Lehne and Albert Rohan, deputy to Martti Ahtisaari.

Source: Glas javnosti, Belgrade, in Serbian 1 Jun 06 p 2


tironsi said...

This whole thing boils down to:
Albanians - we can't trust the Serb government to treat us right so we want to be independent.
Serbs - that's true, you can't trust us for most things so we'll give you broad autonomy, but you can trust us to represent you internationally, protect minority rights for your, etc.

So, if the Serbs themselves are basically admitting that they can't be trusted for most things, how are they going to convince anyone that they can be trusted for anything?

AlbanianThrough&Through said...




Dardania 2006 said...

How dare they claim that state assets belong to Serbia when for years now they kept Kosova underdeveloped and backwards by taking Kosovar generated capital and sending it to Belgrade.

The way I see it, if the Serb state is smart it will let this one pass and pray we take into account this as a percentage of war/genocide/apartheid compensation.

rodoyf said...

Serbian government is paying back Kosovo's foreign debt, while kosovo is selling state(people owned) property to foreigners.

Dardania 2006 said...

Uh really? Our foreign debt...let me see, something like $40,000.

We did not get anything from world giving money to Serbia so it is their debt.

We probably owe Europe for all the aid, but Serbia is not paying back for this.

teuta1 said...

During the time of yugoslavia, $1,000,000 a day was sent to Kosovo from the other regions to assist in development of that province. Albanians were in charge then in that province...when they had autonomy...and corruption reigned then as it does now. It is and will be a black hole of Europe stuck with Europe's "palestinian's--the 'shiftar'--for generations to come.
for generations to come

AlbanianThrough&Through said...

Hey Teuta1...kiss our Albanian arses!

ANYC said...

"Serbian negotiator blames mediators for collapse of Vienna Kosovo talks "

Man you gotta give it to the serbs-they are masters at portraying themselves always the victim, always someone elses fault whether it is slovenians, croats, bosnians, albanians, montenegros, americans,english,germans,catholics muslims, cnn, bbc and on and on..... Typical of their history; creating myths how they were prosecuted, so their children can continue to fight their neighbours. Absolutely no accountability for their own actions. Brainwashed beyond sad for those who have to live around them.

Kristian said...

To: Albanina through and through

I don't know if Teuta1 figure is correct but durring the communist era there was wide spread corruption not just Kosovo/a but throughout FROY.

So I wonder how much of the money was pocketed by corrupt politicians during those days! And how much was actually sent to Kosovo/a directly and how much of it was kept by dirty serb politicians.

On paper you can write any figure (ENRON) is a great example, but in the communist era INTERNAL AUDITING WAS NOT DONE as it was supposed to have been done.

As the old proverb goes:

If you stick your finger in the jar of honey once you can't resist sticking it again and again.

Or if you can't relate think of pussy, once you've had a taste you want to lick it even more :)

Peace to all!

subsidiser said...

I must admit it amuses me when I think of an independant Kosovo. The place is an absolute shambles, corruption is rife, the only economy is in the DVD-copy trade and, despite years of foreign money being poured in they still can't even get the basics like refuse collection sorted with piles of trash lying at the side of many roads with children playing nearby. If you love Kosovo so much why do you treat it like a toilet?

It would be very interesting to see what would happen if Serbia and the International community were to say "yeh, its all yours, go ahead, make a nation". There would be gang warfare and civil unrest within weeks.

It really does make you laugh.

arianit said...

One of the trolls has created another account to spam here. Subsidiser?!! Don't tell me you believe in EU farm subsidies while Africans are starving.

Dardania 2006 said...

Good thing, "subsider" will be proven wrong :)

Oh my wish I could see the look on his/her face...

Thenagain, maybe not, it would be a sad sight, one of pain and suffering...nobody should go through that.

Mir said...

Thats a logical idea Kristian and probably true to some extent, however there were VISIBLE differences in Kosovo before and after Tito's Yugoslavia became a country.

Modern buildings, structures, road systems, schools (that taught Albanian) and infrastructure were built during this time with that money (the leftover money that was not stolen) and still Kosovo could not become an economic power in Yugoslavia.

You would see architecture equivalent to Belgrade, Sarajevo, and Zagreb and yet it was poor and simply wasn't able to contribute to Yugoslavia as a whole. It almost ruined Slovenia (richest state in Yugoslavia), which is partially why they ended their union with Yugoslavia just in time.

The ONLY reason I wish Kosovo to stay part of Serbia is simply because of the history and cultural heritage that comes from medieval Kosovo. But other than that, if we got to keep Kosovo,it would bankrupt us pretty fast.

If Kosovo becomes independent I TRULY wish you good luck because so far it seems(historically)that Kosovo has no real resources or economic strength to stay independent (by independent I mean economically independent). You may end up living off of foodstamps like Russia.

Dardania 2006 said...


We can be selfsustainable, the history you speak of was one of colonialisation.

Before Tito's Yugoslavia, in the 30s, you say things were worse, and then during Serb rule they got better but cause of us Albanins things just didnt get better.

Interesting, considering we fed your country with electricity, food, and people to build that Serbia.

What I am worried about is what will Serbia do now without the sea...

On the other hand, you are forgetting that this time Albanians are not being stopped from going to school by Serb police, there are many people studying engineering, sciences, agriculture, things that before were not available (only for a few years before Serbs noticed how much better the Albanians were getting).

I remember this slogan at one of the Serb demonstrations in Kosovo in 1999: "Dont give them pencils"

You scared, that's all.

rodoyf said...

From the stories i hear it's kosovo's increase birth rate in last half of century
I am not trying to generalize, I myself a serb, know prominent and respected albanian doctors and engineers...
but i typed in google "birth rate kosovo" and came upon this article

Yugoslavia's resident population was estimated at 23.4 million people in 1987, up from 15.7 million in 1948 and 22.4 million in 1981. In addition, over a million Yugoslavs lived and worked for long periods of time in other European countries. The country's population density grew from 62 persons per square kilometer in 1948 to 92 per square kilometer in 1988.

Between 1961 and 1981, Yugoslavia's annual population growth (.95 percent) was about the same as that of the world's developed countries. The population growth rate in Yugoslavia's economically less-developed regions, however, was significantly higher than that in the developed regions. For example, in 1986 the respective annual growth rates of Kosovo and Macedonia were 2.51 percent and 1.53 percent. By comparison, the respective rates in industrialized Vojvodina and Slovenia were only 0.46 percent and 0.87 percent. The annual growth rate of the country's working-age population was 1.25 percent, indicating that an increasing proportion of that group was found in the less developed regions.

The average age of Yugoslavia's population in 1986 was 33.9 years. Men averaged 32.6 years of age; women, 35.1. The average age of the Yugoslav population increased over the last half century because the birth rate declined and life expectancy increased over that period (see table 2 and table 3, Appendix). Between the 1921 and 1981 censuses, the Yugoslav population as a whole moved from the demographic category of population maturity toward the oldest category, demographic old age. The demographic aging of the population varied in different parts of the country, however, and in 1981 Yugoslavia's republics and provinces fit into different categories of demographic aging. The populations of Vojvodina, Serbia proper (see Glossary), and Croatia were in demographic old age; those in Montenegro and Slovenia were on the threshold of demographic old age; those in Bosnia and Hercegovina and Macedonia had reached demographic maturity; the population of Kosovo, however, was still in demographic youth.

Life expectancy began to increase in 1918, lengthening from about 35 years to 68.4 years for men and 73.8 years for women. After World War II, the mortality rate in Yugoslavia declined precipitously. In 1984 the country had a mortality rate of about 9.3 per thousand, down from 12.8 per thousand in 1948. In Kosovo the mortality rate dropped from 13 per thousand in 1947 to 5.8 in 1984, while in Slovenia it dropped from 13.5 to 10.9 per thousand.

Yugoslavia's infant mortality rate, a key indicator of a population's social, economic, health care, and cultural levels, dropped from 118.6 infant deaths per thousand births in 1950 to 26.2 per thousand in 1987. The share of infant deaths in Yugoslavia's overall death totals dropped from about 25 percent in the early 1950s to only 4.3 percent in 1987. In 1987 Vojvodina (12.3 infant deaths per thousand births), Slovenia (13.0), and Croatia (13.7) reported Yugoslavia's lowest infant mortality rates, while Kosovo (55.2) and Macedonia (45.3) reported the highest. In spite of higher living standards and health care, however, in 1985 Yugoslavia's infant mortality rate ranked only above Albania among European countries.

In Slovenia, Croatia, Vojvodina, and Serbia proper, birth rates declined together with the mortality rate. But in Bosnia and Hercegovina, Macedonia, and Montenegro, a rapid drop in the birth rate came only after 1960, while Kosovo's birth rate dropped only slightly through 1990. By 1980 the population explosion among Kosovo's ethnic Albanians had become Yugoslavia's most pressing demographic problem. Between 1950 and 1983, the population of Kosovo grew by about 220 percent, while the Yugoslav total increased by only 39 percent. Kosovo's high annual birth rate (about 29 births per thousand in 1988, the highest in Europe), and the increased life expectancy of the population spurred this demographic growth. Although Kosovo's birth rate declined somewhat during the 1980s, the absolute number of births increased while the mortality rate declined. By 1980 Kosovo had become the most densely populated part of Yugoslavia (146 persons per square kilometer), although it remained the country's least-developed region.

In the mid-1960s, the government began actively supporting family planning practices to control population growth. In 1969 the Federal Assembly (Skupstina) passed a liberalized abortion law. At the same time, the government passed a resolution on family planning that urged expansion of free programs in family planning and modern contraceptive techniques. The resolution also emphasized the role of the social services and other national institutions in sex education and planned parenthood. After 1969 the obvious failure of family planning in Kosovo produced calls for greater dissemination of birth control information and devices and establishment of family planning counseling services. The winning party in Croatia's 1990 republican elections, however, ran on a platform that called for banning abortion. The party's victory raised the possibility of antiabortion legislation in that republic.

Kristian said...

To: Rodoyf

Interesting article. I have to tell you when you have a region that basically doesn't have electricity, the only thing to do is entertain yourself while in bed with your wife.

In any part of the world where there is a developed area ppl tend to weigh the cost of having a kid. Albanians that live in the USA don't have that many kids as their parents or grandparents. Most families have a max of 3. Its too costly and ppl are having kids at a maturer age.

In albania proper albanians there don't have as many kids as the Kosovan Albanians. Even though historically the area was poorer then Kosovo/a.

Again it all boils down to education. The more ppl strive to get degrees the less they think of having kids. Careers will also play a factor in how many kids you will have or want. Kosovo/a hasn't reached that phase yet bc there is huge percentage unemployed. Once ppl start working you'll see how birthrates will change.

Look at city areas compared to rural areas. City folk have less kids then urban folk. I bet if they redid that stats it would show that the majority of the increase came from the rural areas.

The program they initiated was probably not presented correctly. Its all about marketing. The ppl saw it probably as the govt trying to force them to not have kids so it had the opposite effect of what they wanted to achieve (family planning).

Well lets see what the stats will say in 20yrs.

Peace to all!

Segas said...

to rodoyf and subsidiser

...and your point is? on the matter of birth rate.

One question to you: Have you sincerely evr been to Kosova or you just go by what you read and have read the serbian secret service propaganda...stop being ignorant because there is nothing true to what you keep saying as far as financial debts are concerned... you know nothing of kosova! you have never seen the truth here...for your information about 99 % of international community that came to work in Kosova were totally surprised to see that there is nothing to the truth the serbs have portraied about Kosova an Albanians for the last 100 years or so. many of them i met kept asking me where are the fundamental islamists? where are the canniblas? where are carzy people?... listen up buddy stop beleiving what you read and feeling sorry about yourself. dont put the blame on others.admit the fact that nobody beleives the sebs anymore...i got nothing more to say to you! albanianthrough&through said it best to you...

rodoyf said...

Segas you didn't even read comments made by me and kristian. you just showed your ignorance and fascination with canibals. What is the truth we are not seeing? we were talking about census comparisons over the time.....

Kristian.I agree rural, poor, uneducated tend to have more kids no matter the creed.

Sacred Dardanicum said...

To all you who have no idea about Kosovo aka Dardania.

Hey sou serbs where are you living in Mars. Just travel from Beogradski Pasaluk to Kosova and you will see the difference. The biggest problemt that servia has is that servian government still is throwing a lot of money on diplomacy so they are pushing the whole population toward the poverty. Every young servian deosn't like to live in servia mainly due to the recent history that Slobodan Milosevic commited.

So, servians stop being brainwashed by your leaders. Since 1999 almost all servian politicians said that Kosova isn't lost except the Zoran Djindjic.
But he isn't anymore among us.

An interesting fact is that servians are going deeper and deeper in problems and international comunity is simply playing with them and finaly under servia rule only t he beogradski pasaluk and Sumadija will retain as a part of servia and not other parts.